Off duty Police told they can't carry at University

[Reyn]

I had a run in with Va Beach PD a few years ago. I was walking in front of my home while open carrying, and was stopped by police, cuffed, and placed in the back of a patrol car. They held me for an hour, while the cop was trying to find a law to charge me with. They eventually let me go after the supervisor came and told them OC was legal, and no charges were filed.

While being held, I was told by the cop, "This isn't the wild west, you can't just walk around with a gun

Did you take legal action?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

sorry to hear about va beach was it a rookie? i prefered concealed to miss out on those kinda encounters. in my area you get the occasional person who freaks out but the cops are better informed.the exception being when we get an imported one who has never seen it before or the "lady " in manassas who has the john wayne complex. when you were released what did the newly enlightened officer say?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

jr foxx the heads of police unions can be the worst type of politician. and in some areas are regarded as the lessor of 2 evils by the rank and file. in a peculiar catch 22 were it not for the perception by the police that they need the fop to protect against the cop haters and those in the police chain of command that are "slimy creatures" the unions might not be so strong.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Cassandrasdaddy,

and in some areas are regarded as the lessor of 2 evils by the rank and file.

Thank you for that! And for the record, I agree with you. But, once again, it's best to make such judgments on the invidual basis and not as a group. It would be a crime to judge the ten good LEO's on the actions of one bad one. Or for that matter one good LEO on the action of ten bad ones.

Selena

 

[Frog48]

If the majority of police actually do support non-LEO's right to own guns, ccw, and OC, then why is it that a LARGE majority of the time, when a law regarding "assault weapons", ccw, or OC is being put up for vote/discussion, I tend to see it being OPPOSED

Thats the funny thing...

Alot of cops claim to support gun ownership. But when you really talk to them in-depth about issues, it becomes clearer that alot of cops only support gun ownership to a point... and that point is sooner rather than later.

They dont seem to mind private citizens owning guns or carrying concealed, when those private citizens are their friends & family. But when its a complete stranger, all bets are off. Also, they tend to have no problem with normal everyday folks having traditional, hunting style firearms, but they tend to view skeptically the idea of people having "scary assault weapons" and the like.

Do I like it? NO. Is it rational? Not really. But its human nature to fear the unfamiliar, so its understandable.

 

[tpaw]

What about other professions? There are plenty out there that piss people off enough to kill. What about there rights to SD?

I have said many times before that all decent law abiding citizens should have the right to conceal or open carry.

 

[Treo]

jr foxx the heads of police unions can be the worst type of politician. and in some areas are regarded as the lessor of 2 evils by the rank and file.

Even if it's true the above doesn't change the fact that the officials elected to these offices by the police still put the weight of their organizations squarely in the Brady camp. While purporting to speak for every cop in their unions they speak out against CCW and the citizen's right to armed self defense at every oppurtunity.

Where are the grassroots voices of cops speaking out in favor of relaxation of restrictions on the citizen's RKBA ?

Why should I support a cop in his efforts to ensure a special priveledge for him that he doesn't want me to have?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

cop unions

are like most unions. guys will put in 20 and never go to a union meeting. they end up being run as lil self serving cabals. the leadership panders to any politician they think will vote to support em come contract time. or that can be of any aid to their narrow self serving agenda. every union i've seen is like that. should the rank and file be more involved? yea but so long as the leadership serves up good benefits and keeps the pissants away the rank and file are more interested in having a beer and going ho,me to the wife and kids than playing political revolutionary. they leave that to folks like you.

as to them not being real cool around strangers with guns... duh and this surprises you because.....?i hope and pray that was some kinda revolutionary rehtorical question that went over my head

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Can you support that with documentation? Many of the LEO's that are in my union, are pro open carry/conceal carry for non LEO's who qualify. Where are you getting your mis-information from?

This forum, and state legislatures, are all the "documentation" necessary. There is a difference between "not being opposed to" and "supporting." Since HR 218 was passed, there have been NO LEOs on this forum offering any support whatsoever to people in any state who are trying to get better carry laws passed, or to those people who are seeking ways to achieve national reciprocity. You and members of your union may not be opposed to the rest of us carrying, but how many of you have taken 15 minutes to write a letter to your state legislators telling THEM that you, as a sworn LEO, are in favor of easing restrictions on concealed carry by everyone? How many of you in states with laws being proposed have taken a morning or an afternoon of your time to testify at the legislative hearing that you, as a sworn LEO, are in favor of allowing everyone to exercise their Constitutional rights? How many of you have written to your Senators and U.S. Representative to tell them you support national carry reciprocity for everyone?

You (meaning LEOs collectively, not you personally) came to this forum in numbers and specifically asked us to write to our legislators in Washington to support HR 218. You (collectively) told is that if we would do that, you would "support" us in taking the next step, to attain national reciprocity for all of us.

So ... where's the support that was promised? Just saying "Yeah, they ought'a have it" in the locker room during shift change isn't "support." That doesn't change any votes. You (again, collectively) promised to "support" us. I ask again: Where's the support that was promised? WE upheld our end. WE wrote, and the bill passed. You (collectively) got what you wanted. And then you guys and gals in blue disappeared.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

aguila blanca

so that would be a "no "to his question? what a surprise

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

Why should I support a cop in his efforts to ensure a special priveledge for him that he doesn't want me to have?
ummmm let me see..... how about because if thjey can get away with disarming cops on campus you've got ZERO chance. can yourphobia/obsession be so acute that the antis disarming cops doesn't seema bad bit of juju?maybe you could help me out and explain the kinda mental gymnastics you practice to get your mind around that.

 

[ashtxsniper]

To all those that have responded to me let me say. I am pro concealed carry and pro open carry. What ticked me off is all the people here are saying to strip LEO's rights to carry. I think that civilians should be brought up to law enforcement levels of carry and not LEO's brought down to civilians levels of carry. I am ultra pro gun and ultra pro 2nd amendment. It just kinda got me a little irritated when I saw everybody trashing LEO's. There are a lot of good ones out there and part of the reason I decided to follow this career field was because I was tired of the bad LEO's and figured I could be an honest helpful one. Regardless of anyones opinion here I will protect and serve those in my community to the best of my ability. If I come to a point where I am not doing this to the best of my ability I will find a new line of work so the community doesn't suffer from my poor performance. I hope everyone here understands where I am coming from. I hope I haven't irritated anyone here.

 

[Treo]

how about because if they enforce the law equally as written maybe we'ed actually get some support from the cop unions Re: repealing the law accross the board

There fixed it for you

 

[Deanimator]

jr foxx the heads of police unions can be the worst type of politician.

I had my eyes opened about the FOP back in '96 when Illinois was going to pass its own version of Lautenberg. Everything was cool until the Chicago lodge of the FOP discovered that cops were NOT exempt from the proposed law which would have disarmed those convicted of domestic violence.

NPR did a story on the matter. FOP spokesmen were interviewed for the piece. It was simply one of the most bizarre radio interviews I'd heard until NPR interviewed the "roving ambassador" for the Taliban before 9/11. The FOP spokesmen's arguments were essentially threefold:

1. You can't take a cop's gun away after he's convicted of kicking his wife's teeth down her throat... because it's his "TOOL OF THE TRADE". The interviewer for All Things Considered didn't apparently think to ask why other convicted criminals, say hitmen, couldn't make EXACTLY the same argument. If you can't take the gun from a cop who batters his wife, why should you be able to take it from a mob assassin? They're BOTH violent criminals and they BOTH need their guns for their jobs.

2. If you take the gun from an angry, violent cop, it'll just make him MORE angry and violent. Again, nobody asked why this didn't apply to other convicted criminals. John Mohammed was pretty angry when he and his boytoy were sniping people in the DC area. I'll bet taking his Bushmaster away didn't improve his disposition one bit.

3. You can trust a cop convicted of stomping his wife to carry a loaded firearm because he'll be "CLOSELY SUPERVISED"... just apparently not closely enough to keep him from beating her brains out in the first place. Of course hearing somebody from the Chicago PD talking about "close supervision" is simply as surreal as things can get.

All this of course emanated from an organization pretty much guaranteed to demand that a woman savagely beaten by her policeman husband NOT be allowed to keep a handgun IN HER HOME to defend herself from her estranged abuser.

Ever since I heard that program back in early spring of '96, it's changed my view of police in general and of the FOP in particular. I now view the FOP as no better than NAMBLA. Like NAMBLA, it's an organization dedicated to the protection of victimizers, not victims. It makes my skin crawl just to type the letters "FOP".

 

[tpaw]

I am very amazed at all the cop bashing on this thread. It raises a question as to why? For the most part, LEO's put their life on the line to make you, your family, and your community a safer place to live. They put up with ungodly working hours, poor sleeping and eating habits, see the most horrible things that life has to offer, are never called for something good, always problems or worse, have to be a cop, preacher, doctor, teacher, social worker, plumber, electrician, etc. Their job is one that most people don't want to do. When you put the uniform on, it's like putting a bull's eye on your back. The bad guy knows who you are, but the opposite is not always true. Your a target.
All you cop bashers, if you have the guts to admit it, why do you bash cops? Did you try to become one but could not? Are you jealous of their authority? Perhaps you had a bad experience that still lives with you.
Is their pension, annuity, health benefits, or retirement pay that is something you wish you had? It can't be just a matter of where or when you can carry a handgun, it goes deeper than that.
I'm ready to take the heat. Be precise in your response and site legitimate reasons without going into the usual rants that I've read on this thread. Most of all, have the courage to be honest in your response. No one will fault you for honesty. They will respect you for it.
Let the boxing match begin.

 

[Deanimator]

All you cop bashers, if you have the guts to admit it, why do you bash cops? Did you try to become one but could not? Are you jealous of their authority?

That's my favorite line in "the script" for sure. I hear it most often from Chicago cops when specific criminal acts by Chicago police are cited.

Let me ask you a simple question. Do you believe that cops who beat their wives should be specifically exempted from laws which disarm those convicted of domestic violence?

 

[TAB]

lets just say my exps, have been less then steller. Yes, I have have had a couple good exps with them, but for the most part they have been horride. I've watched LEOs commit felonys( while off duty) in front of other LEOs, and nothing happend. I cuagh LEOs on video tape commiting felonys, and nothing happend. I've paid for them to do a service( which by law they are the only ones that can do) only to have them show up hours late, and some times not at all.

While working for a FFL I watched LEOs buy guns that normal people could not, only to come back in the same day, with the same gun selling it to some one else.

In short, Overall, my exp has been very bad.

Infact last week I was on hold for 28 mins, with my local LEA( 911 from a cell, goes to CHP, then transfers to the local LEA) before some one picked up the phone... EMS showed up, the SO never did, nor have they contacted me about it.

I'd also like to point out that being a LEO is not even in the top 20 dangerous jobs, and the ones locally start out at almost 20k more then average house hold income in CA... but the way they tell it, they are under paid and are killed all the time. There has not been a fatilty that was not vechile related in 12 years.

 

[tpaw]

Let me ask you a simple question. Do you believe that cops who beat their wives should be specifically exempted from laws which disarm those convicted of domestic violence?

No, site some cases. They should be arrested like anyone else. That seems like a departmental (cover up) problem and should be brought to the DA's office for an official investigation. No police officer should be above the law. Furthermore, I do not know of any laws that exempt police officers from wife beating (maybe in Iraq). If guilty, they are no better than the common criminal and should be disarmed and arrested.

 

[GarandOwner]

Officers are also not aloud to carry inside courtrooms, except for the Deputies that "guard" the courthouse....at least thats the way it is here in Chesterfield Virginia

 

[Deanimator]

No, cite some cases. They should be arrested like anyone else. That seems like a departmental problem and should be brought to the DA's office for an official investigation. No police officer should be above the law. Furthermore, I do not know of any laws that exempt police officers from wife beating. If guilty, they are no better than the common criminal.

Did you not read my post? Unless it's changed, it is the OFFICIAL position of the Chicago lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police that indeed police SHOULD be EXEMPT from laws which disarm those convicted of domestic violence. Order the transcript from National Public Radio. Apparently the Chicago lodge DOES believe they're above the law. I've never seen any evidence to the contrary, and a whole lot in support.

 

[GarandOwner]

i did not phrase my words correctly... i deffinatly meant off the clock.... if a police officer is "off duty" and sees a felony being commited at least in florida they are required by law to help

I believe it is they are obligated by duty (sworn oath to protect and serve and all that good stuff) but they are not required by law to do anything to put them in harms way or to help.... But who would want to be the cop that did nothing while some action took place around you, good luck at the precient after that happens

 

[tpaw]

TAB

My only advise is to report it to the internal affairs division of the department you are dealing with. They are a special breed of LEO's who take satisfaction of arresting other LEO's for crimes.

 

[tpaw]

Did you not read my post? Unless it's changed, it is the OFFICIAL position of the Chicago lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police that indeed police SHOULD be EXEMPT from laws which disarm those convicted of domestic violence.

I do not doubt you, but find it difficult to comprehend. If an order of protection is administered, the officer should, at the very least, have his firearm removed and put on clerical duty until the case goes to court.

 

[TAB]

Beleave me I have, I could not even get a call back from them. You know its bad when even a watch officer can not find people he is in charge of.

My point with posting those, if it was me commiting those felonys, I would currently be felon. With them, all it took was a flash of a badge and on they went.

here is a question for you... you pull some one over, does the person you pulled over being a LEO, play into you desiding rather or not they get a ticket?

If it were me, if I pulled some one over, and they were a LEO, that would be an automatic ticket, as they know the law( or should) so they have no excuse as to why they broke it.

 

[azhunter122]

I'll bet you anything those cops are still going to carry! I respect leo's and do think that them and everyone else should be able to carry whenever and wherever they please without any permits, laws, etc.