Off duty Police told they can't carry at University

[Treo]

All you cop bashers, if you have the guts to admit it, why do you bash cops? Did you try to become one but could not

Why do those two always seem to go together? All us "cop bashers" must be academy washouts. It never occured to me to enter law enforcement as a career, I'm going into medical where I'll work just as lousy hours in a equal if not more stressful job than you ( I'll just get paid more) .

Why can't my issue just be that I'm scared of the direction I see my country taking?

Why can't it be that I see the police as all too willing participants in that direction?

How many times does someone have to post a newspaper account of some over zealous, para-military SWAT team kicking in the wrong door, then killing the homeowner for having the temerity to defend his home before you get it?

How many recordings are you going to need to listen to of someone going about their lawful business while LEGALLY carrying a firearm getting harassed by the local constabluary before you realize something is broke?

 

[Old Dog]

I was breathlessly awaiting Deanimator's posting regaling us with further references to the infamous Chicago PD ... what's a good cop-bashing thread without any mention of the CPD fellas?

Unless it's changed, it is the OFFICIAL position of the Chicago lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police that indeed police SHOULD be EXEMPT from laws which disarm those convicted of domestic violence.

Whatever. The Lautenberg Act is still the law of the land, and it certainly trumps the OFFICIAL position of any chapter of the FOP. CPD's position on cops and domestic violence relates to Tennessee cops not being able to carry firearms on a state university campus how?

I am very amazed at all the cop bashing on this thread. It raises a question as to why?

Tpaw, my friend, where've you been? It (cop-bashing) is the official sport of THR, and it crops up whenever a thread even hints at the words "cop," "law enforcement officer" and "police officer." Frankly, I'm truly amazed we've gone these 7-plus pages and no one's used the term "jack-booted thug." As for the why? Who knows, really? Why did Paulie Shore ever get paid big money to act in motion pictures? I'll bet most of our more virulent cop-bashers have never so much as sat down and had a beer with a working street cop, and probably most of them are just pissed that they keep getting speeding tickets -- otherwise, I'm sure, most of 'em have had little to no real interaction with law enforcement. But by gosh, whatever they read on the internet about law enforcement personnel is true -- 9 out of 10 of us don't support the rights of non-LE citizens to keep and bear arms. It's true! I read it right here!

Why can't my issue just be that I'm scared of the direction I see my country taking?

Why can't it be that I see the police as all too willing participants in that direction?

Yep, that's really productive. Take out your feelings on the little guys ... Don't worry about the folks who are really in charge who actually create and enact the legislation, just keep electing 'em while you're tied up on the internet posting derisive remarks about the street cops.

How many recordings are you going to need to listen to of someone going about their lawful business while LEGALLY carrying a firearm getting harassed by the local constabluary before you realize something is broke?

Pray tell, deliver us at least a few of these recordings so we may ascertain just how widespread this "harassment" is nationwide. As far as SWAT teams killing innocent folk in their own homes, tragic though this is, it's not widespread, it's not common, and I think some of us "get it" way more than you ever, ever will.

 

[Treo]

'll bet most of our more virulent cop-bashers have never so much as sat down and had a beer with a working street cop

I don't drink but I was having sex W/ a Pasco County sheriff's deputy for about 6 months (Lived W/ her too I was the only non cop "friend" she had )

I'm truly amazed we've gone these 7-plus pages and no one's used the term "jack-booted thug."

Old Dog you're a Jack booted thug, Are you happy now?

 

[Treo]

So if the law in TN. says that noone including off duty cops is allowed to carry on College property , why is it "cop bashing"
to say that the cops need to obey the law?

 

[Treo]

I'm such a hard core internet tough guy I even double tap my posts!

 

[SomeKid]

Treo,

It bothers them that we expect them to follow the law. It is that simple.

 

[hotshotshoting]

actually it bothers me more that i heard Santa is not real... omg

 

[SomeKid]

actually it bothers me more that i heard Santa is not real... omg

Thank you, and welcome to the ignore list, troll.

 

[hotshotshoting]

for someone that thinks police arnt necessary your opinions or ignore list don't concern me 1 bit...

 

[Deanimator]

I was breathlessly awaiting Deanimator's posting regaling us with further references to the infamous Chicago PD ... what's a good cop-bashing thread without any mention of the CPD fellas?

Some actor once said something to the effect of "Facts are funny things."

Some people don't find them "funny". Some find them a threat, an indictment of the soothing stories they tell themselves to hide reality. Thing about truth is that it's the one substance that nothing can contain. It eventually eats itself right through anything or anyone who tries to keep it hidden.

The truth of the matter is that there are good departments with a bad apple here and there. It's also the truth that there are bad departments with bad apples at the top who hire and promote other bad apples. A few months worth of the Chicago Tribune would tell any honest person that the Chicago PD is one of the latter. A bad department doesn't get bad without a LOT of "good" cops looking the other way. NOBODY can explain how a HOME INVASION ring can operate inside of a police department for YEARS in ANY other way.

 

[Steve Raacke]

Personally, I'm glad that some of the "elite" in our society are starting to realize that many do not hold them in such high regard.

 

[SCKimberFan]

Old Dog posted:

Don't worry about the folks who are really in charge who actually create and enact the legislation, just keep electing 'em while you're tied up on the internet posting derisive remarks about the street cops.

I have been active for quite a while in trying to get rid of legislators who are more worried about my private life than they are about the direction of the country.

Why can't my issue just be that I'm scared of the direction I see my country taking?

I totally agree with Treo on this one.

 

[divemedic]

There has been a lot of noise in this thread about the "rights" of police officers to carry weapons, because they need them in case they need to arrest a person while off duty.

That is not a right, it is a power. I support the rights of police officers to keep and bear, just as I support their right to free speech. Those rights are identical to mine. You see, everyone in this country has the same rights.

When you talk about police, or any agent of government, being able to carry weapons where other citizens cannot, you are talking about granting that agent a power. I do not favor granting any agent of government any new powers, unless the government can show me a compelling reason for the granting of that power, and show me why that power is necessary for that agent to carry out his duties.

In this case, I do not see a compelling need for a cop to have a power to carry a weapon while off duty. I do see a compelling need for everyone, cops and citizens, to have the RIGHT to carry.

 

[rc109a]

I was under the impression that the High Road was a place for all to get together witha common interest in frearms? Being a LEO and Military I really have enjoyed most of these discussions. Usually we treat each other with respect and dignity. I have noticed the bashing in this thread and have become really disappointed. I noticed one post that stated that LEO's get the support of the people, but do not turn around and give support when it comes down to firearms and ownership. When you start lumping all people into a group you start bashing those that have been writing letters day in and day out in support of campus carry and other critical legislation that would uphold OUR right to carry. One that would be the same for all people in the US and not just a certain governmental organization. Some have posted that we don't need LEO's. I imagaine in some parts of the US that might actually be true, but in others it is not. I try to be very open minded when I read cop bashing threads. I usually don't add fuel to the fire or try and turn anyones opinion. It is theirs and they have the right to free speech. So when we are done with the cop bashing are we going to then start the military bashing next? At what point are we going to stop bashing each other? Why is it that people have nothing better to do but to bash others to make themselves feel beter? I guess when someone feels worse then you do then it actually makes you feel better? Is that how this is to work? This topic have veered so far off course and the hatered has gone beyond what a civil conversation should be at. You want to turn an organization or a group of people away from supporting you, then keep doing what your doing. I for one support everyone's right to keep and bear arms. I don't dump everyone into the same catagory as the guy that tried to shoot my fellow officer the other night in VA Beach. I don't put everyone into the same catagory as the child molester that was arrested a few days ago in our area. I treat everyone as a unique person and until they become unfavorable I give them ALL equal respect. As a High Road Member I treat everyone with the same and equal respect deserved of each person. I don't know you. I have never spoken with you. I don't know what race or political party you are associated with, but that does not matter. I still treat each one of you with respect. Too bad some of you cannot see through your own biased opinion and do the same.

 

[Deanimator]

Too bad some of you cannot see through your own biased opinion and do the same.

Please cite something which I've said which is "biased", much less untrue.

What I've said is easily verified by either contacting the Chicago lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police or especially by purchasing a transcript for the All Things Considered program which I referenced.

The truth is that there ARE cops who both consider themselves above the law and a better class of person than those whom they allegedly serve. To claim otherwise is to deny the undeniable. Anybody who thinks that they deserve special privileges AFTER being convicted of a crime obviously believes he's better than everyone else.

I don't think it's impossible that there are police organizations where cops police each others behavior. The recent history of the Chicago Police Department is ABSOLUTE proof that there are organizations where they DON'T. As I said, it utterly defies logic and common sense that a HOME INVASION ring could operate inside of a police force for YEARS without other cops knowing about it and keeping it to themselves. In fact, in this case, IAD knew about it for years and did NOTHING. That's apparently why the Chicago PD IAD is itself being investigated by the FBI.

Now, tell me what part of that is "biased" or untrue.

 

[sacp81170a]

rc109a:

Well said. I've pretty much given up commenting in these kinds of threads. There's a group of regulars that will jump in on every chance to bash LEO's they get. You're never going to change their minds and until cop bashing is specifically banned, it's gonna happen here on THR all the time.

This is a pattern that repeats itself. A new member with a chip on his or her shoulder posts something negative about LEO's, which in turn generates a thread that stretches on for pages but is pretty much an unproductive wee-wee contest. Another new member sees this and knows that another such posting will guarantee a nice long thread that keeps things stirred up. I'm sure the trolls love it.

 

[divemedic]

To be realistic, cops are pretty much above the law. That is why so many of them have these license plates:


They are a signal to other cops that means: "Don't write me a ticket, I am one of you."

There are even websites on the net where cops complain about cops busting other cops. Many of them feel entitled to a free pass, and that is a large source of friction between the police community and the public they serve. If you as a LEO are really concerned with the negative opinion that many people have of the police, the police must do a better job of eliminating the bad apples.

Cop or not, I am always against any law that allows one group to have a privilege that is not available to everyone.

 

[sacp81170a]

I rest my case.

 

[Checkman]

Where is that emblem or plate from? Here in my state anyone can purchase a plate that shows you are a supporter of law enforcement or perhaps a cop. Dosen't mean anyone is getting out of anything. So your case is not rested. Hasn't even been made. No PC. Just supposition.

I'm a cop. I've gotten tickets from cops and I've given tickets to cops.

Cop bashing is fun though isn't it?

I guess the way I see it cop bashing goes with the territory. In the past years I've been called many many bad things. In some cases the same people also say horrible things about my wife and kids.

Just a few days ago I had a complaintant come in - he was a legititmate victim of a crime. Two years ago I took him to jail and he said the most vile things about me and my wife during the ride to the jail. Ahhh but a few days ago he couldn't have been nice enough to me. Why? Because he was a victim he needed my assistance and he also remembered what he said to me that night.

So what did I do?

Well I was professional, courteous and I took his information and filed the report. There is no suspect info, witnesses and no evidence so it will be an inactive case. However I did my job.

Just like I did that night I took him to jail. No Police brutality. He was delivered safely to the county lockup and turned over to the deputies for processing.

So I guess I've gotten to be more philisophical in my advancing years.

 

[rc109a]

divemedic: If you honestly believe that then you have been mislead. That sticker also goes along with the FOP liceanse plates and the State police/sheriff sponser stickers. I do not know of a single police officer that looks at stickers (nor do I know of single officer who actually has one of those) when pulling over a car. The decision to write a ticket still falls with officer discretion and not a sticker. I do think it is funny when I pull a car with one of those stckers and they make a point to show it to me.

Those websites are a discrace and most will agree with you include LEO's. There are a few bad apples and we do our best to weed them out. Just like the public should do their best to report them when possible. We never once have thought we were above the law. We just have to be the ones to set the proper example. Most officers believe that they live in a fishbowl. Everything we do will be seen by everyone (on and off duty). That is why most of us try so hard everyday to set the example.
Dianimator: Did I point out something that you said? I don't recall that I did. You might be a little confused.

 

[sacp81170a]

So your case is not rested

Read my post:

There's a group of regulars that will jump in on every chance to bash LEO's they get. You're never going to change their minds and until cop bashing is specifically banned, it's gonna happen here on THR all the time.

My case is that there's a group on THR who will smear us every chance they get. Trying to convince them that lumping people into groups and making judgements about the group isn't realistic or useful is about as useful as trying to convince a rabid anti-gunner that their views are wrong by using logic. It'll never work, so I've given up trying.

BTW, I don't and won't use that sticker. The word has gotten around to the BG's too, and having one on your POV is an easy way to make it a target for vandalism and burglary. I was advised against those stickers in the academy. So much for divemedic's worldview...

 

[Deanimator]

Dianimator: Did I point out something that you said? I don't recall that I did. You might be a little confused.

So then what I said is neither false nor biased?

Are you represented by the Fraternal Order of Police? If so, how does it make you feel to know their position on police and domestic abuse?

As I said, these attitudes don't appear to be uniform across all of the law enforcement rank and file. They do however certainly appear to be VERY strong in certain departments and at the very least, certain FOP lodges. Would you agree that in such departments, either there is NO attempt by other officers to moderate the behavior of their contemporaries, OR that such attempts are singularly ineffective?

Would you agree that the barmaid savagely beaten, then threatened with retaliation by a police officer who has been shown deferential treatment by fellow officers and supervisors every step of the way would not likely be mollified by assertions that most police are not that way? Isn't it likely that she's not going to be interested in how good the Berea, Ohio PD is (as indeed they are) when it's the Chicago PD closing ranks to support her ASSAILANT? Her problems are with the Chicago Police Department AS AN ORGANIZATION, and references (no matter how truthful) of how well YOU treat the public are likely to be seen by her as irrelevant at best, and diversionary at worst. Can you give me any good reason why that wouldn't or shouldn't be so?

Again, would you call ANY of the above "biased" or untrue?

 

[Deanimator]

My case is that there's a group on THR who will smear us every chance they get. Trying to convince them that lumping people into groups and making judgements about the group isn't realistic or useful is about as useful as trying to convince a rabid anti-gunner that their views are wrong by using logic. It'll never work, so I've given up trying.

I prefer to allow people to lump THEMSELVES into groups. When a group self-selects by their public and private statements and actions, whose fault is THAT? Is it not wrong for them to do it, but for me to note it? Of course that IS the attitude of some police. After all, on police and newspaper blogs, you can see dozens of examples of Chicago Police Officers declaring NOT their contempt for Officer Anthony Abbate for having savagely beaten an innocent woman, or for having used his OFFICIAL POSITION to intimidate her and witnesses, but instead their hatred of the broadcast media for repeatedly showing video of the beating.

The officers of the Chicago Police Department, through their ELECTED representatives in the Fraternal Order of Police have declared that police who beat their wives should NOT be subject to the same laws as everyone else. Have they as a group or even individuals, repudiated this position or their ELECTED representatives who put it forward before MILLIONS of radio listeners?

I'll take your word for it that you don't do or defend these things. But that doesn't change the fact that SOME officers DO, and in some places a LOT of officers do. Is that YOUR fault? Not that I'm aware. Does YOUR good behavior act as a comfort or remedy to the families of Kathryn Johnston or Michael Pleasance? Not that I'm aware either.

I'm perfectly willing to say that there are a lot of decent cops. Are you willing to admit that there are a lot more bad ones than a lot of people want to admit, and that they cluster where there's a congenial environment?

 

[rc109a]

Deanimator: I cannot make comment on something which I have not heard of, seen, or been briefed as to the circumstances. I refuse to pass judgment since that is not who I am. To answer your question if I am represented by FOP, that is no. I have never even considered joining. I do not like to pass judgement since that is the courts position, not mine. As far as your post in this discussion I must admit that I have stopped reading them a while ago. Someone who feels that they need to type in caps to try and prove their point (most people call it shouting) is not something that I feel needs to be addressed. If you feel offended, then I apologize and hope that you have a good day. To the OP and the other I am sorry for taking this post in the wrong direction. If anyone feels the need to discuss this further them PM or email. Take care...

 

[sacp81170a]

I'm perfectly willing to say that there are a lot of decent gun owners. Are you willing to admit that there are a lot more bad ones than a lot of people want to admit, and that they cluster where there's a congenial environment?

See how it works? Now, do you want to 'fess up and be responsible for every bad thing every gun owner has ever done, and admit that there are bad ones even if there are decent ones? That's what you're asking of us.

Pot, kettle.