P365 or Glock 43
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All guns have their problems, but the sig p365 has had more than the g43 on every source of social media and gun forum I’ve come across. There’s guys who have tested 2 or 3 p365’s and still have problems. Not condemning the pistol as I think it holds ingenious design features that make it one of the smallest 9mm pistols, let alone one that holds 10 rounds. But the engineering of this pistol is far from over and proven to be a harder task than expected. I will own one eventually, but not until I’m satisfied with the durability part of the p365’s track record, which seems to be nearing
Old Dog
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Eh, I own one. I know several guys that own one and am familiar with their experiences. I do, however, place my experience and the experiences of those I know, over the "track record" of social media and gun forums that I've come across.
The poll didn't have a "get both" option
I did chose the P365, only because I handled both and like the feel slightly better than the G43, and I have on lay-away for when I get home in May. I don't think you could go wrong with either. If you're familiar with Glocks, the 43 makes a ton of sense. If you are more familiar with Sigs (especially their striker fired pistols), the P365 makes just as much sense. I do think the G43 has a better track record, but Sig finally pulled their head out and the P365 looks to be over its teething problems. Options are good...
ROCK6
I did chose the P365, only because I handled both and like the feel slightly better than the G43, and I have on lay-away for when I get home in May. I don't think you could go wrong with either. If you're familiar with Glocks, the 43 makes a ton of sense. If you are more familiar with Sigs (especially their striker fired pistols), the P365 makes just as much sense. I do think the G43 has a better track record, but Sig finally pulled their head out and the P365 looks to be over its teething problems. Options are good...
ROCK6
Doublehelix
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The P365 has been an outstanding sales success for SIG. I have no idea what the actual sales numbers are, but it is off the charts.
They also hear and read social media and hear all the reports on the "failures". I am sure they are going to get it right. It is too important of a product for them not to.
They also hear and read social media and hear all the reports on the "failures". I am sure they are going to get it right. It is too important of a product for them not to.
JR24
Member
I really would like for someone making this claim to actually back it up with sales numbers, I am interested to see how well they did actually sell vs word of mouth and hype.
Anyone know if the sales data exists?
Recall the first half of 2018 the hard to get hyped pistol was the Glock 19X, I'd like to see the numbers on that as well.
JN01
Member
I picked G43, which I already own.
I was intrigued by the P365, it seems to be a great design. Handling one at a gun shop, however, the grip seems too small to me. I would like to try shooting one at some point.
Regarding quality control, SIG does seem to frequently have issues with the rollout of new models. I bought a P938 when they first came out, it had problems that required a trip back to SIG, later parts replacement from SIG, and a bit of tinkering on my own to get it to run right. To their credit, they seem to handle the issues as they come up and make the needed changes, it is just unfortunate that they can't do a bit more testing before releasing a new design to the market..
I was intrigued by the P365, it seems to be a great design. Handling one at a gun shop, however, the grip seems too small to me. I would like to try shooting one at some point.
Regarding quality control, SIG does seem to frequently have issues with the rollout of new models. I bought a P938 when they first came out, it had problems that required a trip back to SIG, later parts replacement from SIG, and a bit of tinkering on my own to get it to run right. To their credit, they seem to handle the issues as they come up and make the needed changes, it is just unfortunate that they can't do a bit more testing before releasing a new design to the market..
I know a couple of guys with them as well, 1 of which had to go back to sig for the same problem that’s been reported since day one all over social media and forums. I get what you’re saying and all but your personal experience and those you know are a lot smaller sample size. If you’re not willing to place any confidence in the sincerity of some fellow forum members or trustworthy YouTube channels then why even frequent these platforms? For example I know a guy who has 2 Remington R51’s that have been flawless, but do I just throw away all the data on the failures of the gun because experiences of the guy I knows sample of 2? It’s a well known fact a majority of gun writers give positive glowing reviews but I’ve always thought you get more of the real world performance data from guys on the forums. I guess we’ve faced with the dilemma of either choosing to believe in the small circle and sample size of our personal experiences and those we know or broaden our sample size with forum members and honest Youtubers like MAC who actually test guns endurance.
Sig is pretty much the king of rolling changes to new designs or “volunteer upgrades” without calling it a recall. With that said I still love my p320c as much as I did when I first bought it. I’m going to get the p365 maybe at the end of the year, by then all the rolling changes/upgrades should be complete.
Old Dog
Member
And I get what you're saying ... I absolutely place confidence in the sincerity of many of my fellow forum members here, especially the ones who've helped me out and with whom I've gone shooting and socialized. However, the anonymity factor of forum makes it very easy for the biased, the haters to come out and continually regurgitate the same old tripe, much of it anecdotal, third-hand, usually totally devoid of actual experience, and lacking varying degrees of actual truth. With regard to SIG, I follow closely the SIG forums and know who the experienced voices of reason are ... I've been privileged to meet, shoot with and listen to actual factory representatives (perk of the job) and know people who know people in the industry, so the bottom line for me is, I take a lot of what I read on internet gun forums with a grain of salt (and occasionally a shot of tequila).
Interestingly, I'm aware of many, many teething problems Glock has suffered over the past few years when its rolled out new guns or new versions of their old guns. Yet I've never felt compelled to go online in any forum and detail what I've read, heard or seen that's negative about that brand.
I do believe problem models should be reported, but as I noted before, the anonymous nature of internet forums does not typically lend itself to being the most credible source of information. Brand loyalty, bias, ego, all kind of stuff that creates unproductive and unsubstantiated rhetoric, so in the handgun world, either the fanboi or hater camps manifest themselves quickly. Strange we don't see as much when talking about hunting, black powder or reloading, much more friendly tribal interaction there.
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Gotcha. Just on a side note here I’ve had good “luck” with the Taurus handguns I’ve shot and owned and the few people I know who own them have had the same “luck” as me. However the internet condemns Taurus probably more than any other manufacturer. My good friend who owns a gunshop in southwest Ohio says Taurus guns are by far the most problematic guns he sells and so does shooters of Maumee gun range that I frequent who only rent guns and range time. Neither of which is trying to sell me a gun. My personal sample size of what I’ve experienced and those I’ve personally known experienced is small compared to the guys who either sell or rent hundreds of guns a month who say otherwise. I find high volume ranges and gun shops are the best source of real world performance, of course if they are reputable and not trying to “sell” you a gun.
You have a point there, gotta find the happy median between the fanbois and haters.
Jeb Stuart
member
Well said. I have shot Glocks, although not the 43X and I have shot the 365. I do not understand how someone can say one is "Superior" over the other. I find that ridiculous since both gun are extremely well made and have stellar reputations. (regardless of internet bias). Firearm manufacturers do not get Military contracts because they are a inferior company. What I do not understand is the whole thread of comparing the two. Which is better of two quality pool cue's, the thinner cue or the thicker cue? How can the 365 be superior to the Glock simply because it is smaller, lighter, etc.? Trigger feel is so subjective. I do not like the triggers on either gun simply because I like double actions. That does not make the triggers on the other guns inferior, just a personal preference.
I find my Nano to be much Superior to both the Glock and the 365. Why, because the gun fits my PERSONAL desires and wants. Others may find the gun totally undesirable. A Glock fan may simply fall in love with the "slightly" larger 43x, while the Sig fan over the 365.
I personally have never been a fan of Polls. So much in between that is not asked.
How can someone say one is Superior to the others just from handling a gun? I have known folks that did not like the feel of the gun and then after shooting loved it and vice versa. Look at the comparison. Each has it own uniqueness, traits etc. Which is better for Bob or Joe? I have no Idea. Both are well built guns.Does Joe have a large hand? Does Bob like smaller guns? It seems you would at least shoot the guns before making any decisions.
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I also have a G43. Watched a couple of revues, on the Sig 365. Sever primer drag and trigger broke?
If one values worthless night sights, so called the Sig represents better value for $ spent, however, size difference does not matter as both fully loaded will be too heavy for most pockets to carry. I would favor 43x be ause I don't believe in concept of extended magazine as a way of obtaining favorable/comfortable grip.
I prefer small alloyed frame revolver with titanium cylinder because fully loaded its weighs less than uloaded G43x or the Sig 365.
I am one that does like the fact that it has night sights, so a bit more on the price is OK with me. I also like (Love) the large front sight (Similar to the XS Big Dot) on the P-365. As I have posted, I can see these sights well enough to shoot the gun very, very, well even without my readers, which is important to me because I can't ask the perp to wait for me (Like Robin Williams) to put them on.
(Wrong bullets scene)
Doublehelix
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It seems you would at least shoot the guns before making any decisions.
I love these comparisons!
Concealability = "Good" (Notice that they did not even spell "concealability" correctly!!!
)Defense Factor = 81%
Where do they come up with these "numbers"? What does "81% defense factor" even mean??? Hard facts are OK, but some of these categories are qualitative for sure. I get that with the "total capacity" number they decided to stick with the stock offering (10+1) so they can compare standard size dimensions, but that is not the total picture since SIG offers a 12+1 configuration and I am sure someone will do the same for the Glock.
Your comment about shooting both guns before making decisions is the right answer. Always.
Old Dog
Member
Old news, Old Guy. Problems were addressed. Gotta keep up, bro.
Old Dog out.
Jeb Stuart
member
I love these comparisons!
Concealability = "Good" (Notice that they did not even spell "concealability" correctly!!!
Defense Factor = 81%
Where do they come up with these "numbers"? What does "81% defense factor" even mean??? Hard facts are OK, but some of these categories are qualitative for sure. I get that with the "total capacity" number they decided to stick with the stock offering (10+1) so they can compare standard size dimensions, but that is not the total picture since SIG offers a 12+1 configuration and I am sure someone will do the same for the Glock.
Your comment about shooting both guns before making decisions is the right answer. Always.
If you can read, they will tell you how it is calculated. The Section with the title How handgun rankings are calculated . The couple of extra points cold be something as little as having night sights. They also sent out a email stating some new features like each gun tested with different ammo etc. It sounds like you are not interested in using Genitron. If so then be my guest and move on.
I am sure they will reimburse you, if not 100% satisfied. (On, I forgot, it is free to use other than logging in.)
Concealability (don't know how you spell it)
While it would be preferable to use all dimensional information to calculate a handgun's relative concealabity (length, width, height, weight), unfortunately only half of the handguns in our database have specifications for width and height. Many manufacturers simply do not provide width and height measurements, and it is often difficult to find that information for older discontinued models in our database. What is ultimately consistent with all handguns we add to the database, at a minimum is overall length and weight. So, we use these two parameters to calculate a relative Concealability factor between guns. The calculation is simply the length in inches plus the weight in pounds (length + (weight/16)). The smaller this number is, the higher the Concealibity factor.
For defense purposes you want a higher Concealability factor.
Defense Factor
The Defense Factor is calculated as a derivative sum of the previous four factors. First, each gun's factors are normalized to a percentage value where the highest value of all guns is 100% and the lowest value of all guns is 1%. Once equalized to a percentage they are weighted by an importance scale and summed together: Defense Factor = (Power% * 0.6) + (Capacity% * 0.4) + ((100% - Conceal%) * 0.3) - (Recoil% * 0.3)
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Doublehelix
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First off wise guy, you did not post the source of your data for me to reference, so I only had your copy and paste to go on. I can read just fine thank you, but thanks for the compliment. I also have all of my teeth and use indoor plumbing (on occasion).
I find it funny that you ask if *I* can read when the source of your information cannot spell correctly! Classic!Secondly, oh forget it. I don't want to get in trouble with @Walkalong so I will keep my mouth shut...
I do appreciate you explaining the calculations however, and it appears that some thought went into it. Personally, I still think their rankings are arbitrary, and based on *their* interpretation of a "Defense Factor". I am not saying it is worthless data, but I do think it is open to interpretation depending on how you weigh each component. For example, they use 60% of the Power and 40% of capacity. Maybe I think that capacity should be 60% and Power only 40% (I don't, but you get my point).
Then they take 100% minus the Conceal%, which they show in the chart as "Good". I am not sure how to calculate "100% - Good".
It goes back to your comment (which I agreed with) that you need to shoot both guns before making a decision, and charts don't mean much to me, especially with terms like "Defense Factor".
Hope you day is going well brother...
Jeb Stuart
member
As I said, you can take the defense factor and toss it if you do not agree with or just use it as a general rule of thumb. I really do not see the big deal about this. And it really does not take much to understand the concealment ranking. Looking at the size, weight etc. should be simple enough for anyone to make that call. I did not mean to Post Genitron for a discussion on how each individual does their own ranking, but simply a source for basic comparisons and information about the hundreds of firearms out there. Your comment about the spelling was irritating but obviously a huge deal for you. If it bothers you so much write them and correct them. I am not the least bit interested in a spelling class.
If you have a better source then please by all means give us the link.As I said, Genitron is not for you, Now you know so now you can move on. I am sorry I wasted your time. And I too hope you have a much better day.
If you have a better source then please by all means give us the link.As I said, Genitron is not for you, Now you know so now you can move on. I am sorry I wasted your time. And I too hope you have a much better day.
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