Printing doesn't matter because most people don't pay attention...

JohnKSa

JohnKSa

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Ever heard this one? It's wrong.

Even if most people don't pay attention, all it takes is one who does and then it matters.

The caption of this video is incorrect. The off-duty officer is NOT open-carrying, he's just not bothering to conceal carefully. His carry gun is printing.



Now it's someone else's gun. Someone noticed it and took it from him at gunpoint.

If you're going to open carry, or if you're not really bothering to conceal your gun, you need to take steps to deal with the reality that guns are desirable items to criminals. Retention holsters can deal with gun grabs, but frankly, I don't know how to deal with the type of threat seen in this video-other than to really conceal the firearm.
 
I'd say 99.37% of the time, that assertion is true. For the other .63% of the time? Printing DOES matter because those with nefarious intent ARE paying attention.

The ASP channel has hipped me to the fact that crazy stuff happens out in the world! Imho, being willing to carry a firearm means I have a responsibility to maintain situational awareness well above and beyond your average cell phone zombie...
 
Commonly posted about obvious printing or open carry; incorrect statement followed by correction:
"nobody notices" - Nobody said anything.
"nobody cares" - Silence doesn't equal approval, if someone noticed they may not think it in their best interest to comment.

On the same topic:
"Sneaky Pete" or pouch other fanny pack large enough to hold a gun SCREAMS gun; its concealed open carry.
A little tube like you have a medical condition changes nothing; untucked shirt would be much less attention grabbing and you don't have to feign a medical condition.

My turn to play the "turn it around" game. ;) Nobody notices my untucked shirt and nobody cares. :D
 
If printing doesn’t matter that makes open carry always a great idea.
 
Something for every armed citizen to remember.... There are a few serious bad actors that don't carry firearms - since they're planning on taking yours.... One of the strongest points for concealed carry is that, if done properly, you don't appear to be a threat to someone planning on breaking bad - which at least initially does give that citizen a brief advantage in a bad (maybe even very bad...) situation.

One other small item that you'll only realize if you carry a firearm for years and years.... There are actually an even smaller group of bad guys who are just fine with shooting someone that might oppose them - to start with, rather than wait... without the slightest warning. We did, years ago have an officer killed down here in south Florida, while working an off-duty job at the drive up portion of a local bank (not my outfit, another city's outfit...). The incident began when one of the offenders walked up and executed that officer with a single shot to the head. I know that uniformed officers can be a target and in my career I tried my best not to be complacent - an armed citizen with a weapon that's not obvious on his or her person - is in a much better position to defend themselves than a guy or gal in a uniform...

Printing doesn't matter? Not in my book for the above cited reasons if for no other...
 
Doc Samson said:
I'd say 99.37% of the time, that assertion is true. For the other .63% of the time? Printing DOES matter because those with nefarious intent ARE paying attention.

The ASP channel has hipped me to the fact that crazy stuff happens out in the world! Imho, being willing to carry a firearm means I have a responsibility to maintain situational awareness well above and beyond your average cell phone zombie...
Click to expand...

This is why I waited a long time before carrying. It made me cringe when I heard guys at the shop tell inexperienced gun owners to carry as soon as possible. Just like with kids, 2A enthusiasm needs "reason."
 
I think we all strive to learn from and do everything in the best manner. That said I think that one thing ANYBODY carrying a firearm needs to come to terms with is you can do everything right and still end up dead or in jail.

I personally would never, or at least only in some very specific circumstance, open carry and when carrying always have a cover garment usually an untucked shirt.

All that said I do think the assertion that the VAST amount of the time printing is a non issue and it’s more of a “won the lottery” moment. I swear the vast amount of the time you could walk around in a bright yellow shirt with a bright black gun picture and bright pink lettering that read “Hi my name is Chris and I have a cocked and locked .45 handgun at my side, have a wonderful day” and folks still wouldn’t notice.

As for the video do we KNOW the perp knew it was a gun or maybe he just saw a buldge that could have been an iPhone or whatever and got lucky. Lots of us not carrying still have a buldge or two :).

The point is short of ankle carry or DEEP carry if you want access to that firearm quickly there will always be some kind of poking of the grip somewhere at some point.
 
I'd say 99.37% of the time, that assertion is true.
Click to expand...
Yup. Similarly, we could truthfully say that self-defense doesn't matter "99.37% of the time" because the vast majority of people won't try to kill you or cause you serious bodily injury or death. But as in this case, all it takes is once and then it does matter enough to have a gun handy even when it's not needed.
All that said I do think the assertion that the VAST amount of the time printing is a non issue and it’s more of a “won the lottery” moment.
Click to expand...
Well said. I've often referred to self-defense as a "reverse lottery". It's not at all likely that you will win, but when you do the result is significant enough that you don't want to ignore the chances of winning. The vast majority of the time we won't need a gun for self-defense, but that one time you do and don't have it...
As for the video do we KNOW the perp knew it was a gun or maybe he just saw a buldge that could have been an iPhone or whatever and got lucky.
Click to expand...
Of course we don't know it with 100% certainty--no way to do that without actually talking to the perp. We can draw a conclusion from the fact that although there were certainly other people in the store that might be expected to have valuable items, even after he had played his hand and pulled his gun he didn't bother trying to take anyone else's phones--nor did he try to rob the store or take anyone's money/wallets. It certainly seems like he wasn't interested in any of that.
 
"Sneaky Pete" or pouch other fanny pack large enough to hold a gun SCREAMS gun; its concealed open carry.
Click to expand...

My favorite was a late middle age man with the older guy fat old belly (I should talk). The belly was wrapped in a black tight tee shirt with GLOCK in giant white letters. On his belt was a big old Sneaky Pete. Now this was in a nice upscale market in a town known for having one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country.

That being said, once the weather cools off, nice fleece or puffy vests are everywhere and would be just fine concealment. A floppy shirt over a t-shirt is everywhere when warmer, if the shirt is colorful and loose.

Retention skills are great if you want to wrassle. However, if the grab is started with a stab or whack in the noggin - oops. Of course, you have super spider sense and that won't happen.
 
CDW4ME said:
Commonly posted about obvious printing or open carry; incorrect statement followed by correction:
"nobody notices" - Nobody said anything.
"nobody cares" - Silence doesn't equal approval, if someone noticed they may not think it in their best interest to comment.

On the same topic:
"Sneaky Pete" or pouch other fanny pack large enough to hold a gun SCREAMS gun; its concealed open carry.
A little tube like you have a medical condition changes nothing; untucked shirt would be much less attention grabbing and you don't have to feign a medical condition.

My turn to play the "turn it around" game. ;) Nobody notices my untucked shirt and nobody cares. :D
Click to expand...
Other option… just be fat. It works for me. clothes are baggy in some areas and tighter in some areas. The baggy areas just happen to be convenient for carrying something that’s barely noticeable.
 
CDW4ME said:
"Sneaky Pete" or pouch other fanny pack large enough to hold a gun SCREAMS gun; its concealed open carry.
Click to expand...
Even if somebody doesn't know it's a gun I've always thought that if you curious Sneaky Pete long enough some tech geek is going to ask you what's in that pouch because they want to see the latest and greatest phone.
CDW4ME said:
Nobody notices my untucked shirt and nobody cares.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this is a serious statement or not but you should always assume somebody is always paying attention to you assuming you're in public
 
Night Rider said:
I'm not sure if this is a serious statement or not but you should always assume somebody is always paying attention to you assuming you're in public
Click to expand...

It is a tie back (turn it around) to the beginning of my post.
I've seen people post "nobody notices" and or "nobody cares" in regard to open carry and obvious printing.
I used the same "logic" and applied it to my untucked shirt, nobody notices or cares. (As evidenced by they never say anything). ;)
Despite my untucked shirt in a variety of settings (including church) nobody has ever told me I look like a "worthless pleb"; but, I entertain myself hoping they think it.:D
 
I want to say something profound about this topic but it's not there.

The truth is, people who get it, get it. People who don't aren't going to until it happens to them or something happens that causes them to change their outlook.

When I worked as a security guard people went out of their way to make trifling comments about the fact that I was armed. It happened literally every shift. Usually it was client employees who could get away with it because they were client employees. They all said basically the same thing and every single one of them thought it was some really original comment and it got old really, really quick.

I had to trespass multiple crazy homeless people off of various properties. I don't know what it is about crazy homeless people but as soon as you approach them and they notice you're armed they start screaming at you and daring you to shoot them (if you're working in an unarmed position they just start screaming at you).

I've never actually had to fight off somebody who is grabbing for my gun. But I've had a couple of people that I really think were just about to try it.

Long story short, I'm convinced. You will never catch me dead in public open carrying and I am very conscientious about not printing and not wearing Glock hats and things like that.
 
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Off duty as a very young and very inexperienced new officer, I had my strong arm grabbed from behind and immobilized by an extremely large and strong person up in Harlem one time.

Fortunately for me, he was an undercover officer who wanted to know why I was carrying a gun. There are so few carry permits in NYC, generally the only people carrying are cops or criminals. I was wearing a tight t-shirt and it must have printed like crazy.

He was very polite once I ID’d myself and explained the facts of life about printing in dangerous places.

His points were well taken and I’ve done my best ever since to follow his advice and to be extremely careful never to print. Did I mention he scared the living crap out of me?
 
JohnKSa said:
Ever heard this one? It's wrong.

Even if most people don't pay attention, all it takes is one who does and then it matters.

The caption of this video is incorrect. The off-duty officer is NOT open-carrying, he's just not bothering to conceal carefully. His carry gun is printing.



Now it's someone else's gun. Someone noticed it and took it from him at gunpoint.

If you're going to open carry, or if you're not really bothering to conceal your gun, you need to take steps to deal with the reality that guns are desirable items to criminals. Retention holsters can deal with gun grabs, but frankly, I don't know how to deal with the type of threat seen in this video-other than to really conceal the firearm.
Click to expand...


PROOF that "open carry" is a bad or horrible idea !.

I want to hear how this could have turned out better ?.

The only way to stop this attack was to NOT BE SEEN AS ARMED.

He was lucky to not get shot anyway.
 
scaatylobo said:
I want to hear how this could have turned out better ?.
Click to expand...
Where to start? How about if the off-duty officer had been demonstrating a modicum of situational awareness?

I don't even want to weigh in on the pros and cons of "open carry" as we've discussed the topic ad nauseam (with no resolution or consensus whatsoever), but really to me what threads such as this do is spawn the usual amount of overthinking.

Effective concealment -- since the OP was really not about OC, just bad concealment --, no matter the body type, no matter the weapon size (well, presuming we're not talking .50 AE Desert Eagles or 6.5" Model 29s), is just not that difficult, folks.

Given the incredibly low numbers throughout this country, annually, of persons open-carrying or inadvertently displaying their "concealed" handguns and having them taken away by bad people, I'm not sure this is really anything most of us need to lose sleep over. As we have had confirmed time after time, 99.9% of the time, no one notices someone "printing" or OC'ing, and in probably .09% of the occasions a firearm is actually detected, nothing happens. So maybe .01% of the time someone is spotted with a firearm something bad happens.
 
Old Dog said:
Where to start? How about if the off-duty officer had been demonstrating a modicum of situational awareness?

I don't even want to weigh in on the pros and cons of "open carry" as we've discussed the topic ad nauseam (with no resolution or consensus whatsoever), but really to me what threads such as this do is spawn the usual amount of overthinking.

Effective concealment -- since the OP was really not about OC, just bad concealment --, no matter the body type, no matter the weapon size (well, presuming we're not talking .50 AE Desert Eagles or 6.5" Model 29s), is just not that difficult, folks.

Given the incredibly low numbers throughout this country, annually, of persons open-carrying or inadvertently displaying their "concealed" handguns and having them taken away by bad people, I'm not sure this is really anything most of us need to lose sleep over. As we have had confirmed time after time, 99.9% of the time, no one notices someone "printing" or OC'ing, and in probably .09% of the occasions a firearm is actually detected, nothing happens. So maybe .01% of the time someone is spotted with a firearm something bad happens.
Click to expand...

Ok, I will happily grant all your number [ and unproven also ] BUT = if I happen to be in the AO of the .01% of the bad carry issue [ REGARDLESS intentional or unintentional ] .

I do not want to face rounds with
to whom it may concern " on them !.

My comment was to bring up what that officer could have done AFTER his gun was seen & then taken.

My comment was FULL of sarcasm,sorry you missed it.
 
The statement in the title is a logical fallacy. It very well may be true that "most people don't pay attention" (I think it probably is true, but it's not conclusively verifiable in every circumstance). That doesn't really matter though. If "most people" were what we were concerned about, we sure as hell better be carrying more than a concealed handgun. "Most" is a lot of people.
 
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