Private Gun Sale Math

[TexasGunbie]

I think everyone is familiar with this kind of lingo when dealing with private sale.

Example:

Gunbroker price of Gun A in new in box condition is 500 dollars.

Mr. Smith lists his used Gun A for 650 so there would be room for bargain.

You decide to send an email to Mr. Smith and offer him 350 since it's used, and you reason with him that the reasonable price for even a new one is 500.

And Mr. Smith comes back and tells you, "if you order this gun, you will pay 50 dollars to ship it, then another 30 for FFL, that is how much you save already when you deal with me."


Why do people always bring out FFL and shipping?

Don't people realize that the moment they try to sell their used gun, they will not get back the original price tag. And the FFL and shipping is not calculated as a saving for the buyer... it's simply the loss the seller needs to suck up. In my opinion, if the gun is 500 dollars new, and buying it for 400 dollars does not mean you have saved 100 dollars plus a WHOOPING FFL and TAX.

I don't know if everyone is following what I am saying... I guess I am just frustrated that people tell me that I low ball them.

I personally think it's fair game when someone mark their price 100-200 above used or new prices, that I can also offer 100-200 below new price.

Also, don't they always say, "I bought this NEW for my wife for 3 months, now she doesn't like it, barely shot 100 rounds through it. I had to pay FFL and tax, so I pass my saving along to you."

How do we know that they actually bought it NEW?? and not off another private sale for 400 dollars?



Anyways, get what I am saying? I hope people will read this before they go out and deal with private sale.

EDIT: A lot of you will say this is a whiny post, but that wasn't my intention, so read before you post or pm me and tell me I am a crybaby.
The whole point of writing this is to make people that are new into the private sale market aware that some people are overpricing their guns and set up their sale strategy in ways to make money off of you. The usual scams include "this is like new in box with only 100 rounds through it", or I mark the price of my used gun higher than a new gun because if you buy new, you will need to pay tax and FFL, besides my gun is new enough.

Many of you have said that if you don't think it's reasonable, then you move on. That's true, but I was sincerely attempting to bring these issues to people so that buyers can make better choices. Just like some people will rely on a car buying guide to become aware of sale gimmicks and tricks out there.

 

[HKUSP45C]

If I have an item listed for sale at 650 and you offer me 350, you're lowballing me. That's just a little better than half of my asking price. Further, if the gun is 500 new, why are you bothering the seller of the used gun, go buy the new one. You will still have to pay the 50 shipping and 30 transfer BUT you'll have saved both of us a whole lot of time and still come out 70 dollars richer than dealing with me and my old used gun.

The private market is so, so simple. X is what I want to sell it for, Y is what you want to pay. If those two variables are 100 percent apart (the rough difference between 650 and 350) then you should probably just move on. That, or don't get offended when I point out your offer is a lowball.

Just sayin' is all.

ETA: As an aside, most guns don't lose 30 percent of their value (from the lowest price you could find) just because they're used.

 

[MrOldLude]

This sounds to me like someone isn't happy sellers aren't caving to their lowball offers. :shrug:

If someone's price is unreasonable, I buy from someone else. Simple as that. If they're too high, people won't buy from them. If someone does, I guess the seller wins.

 

[ATBackPackin]

The problem isn't what people try to inflate their price. The problem is that people are willing to pay it.

Shawn

 

[highorder]

If someone is selling a used item for more that the price of a new one, There's no reason to even begin to do business.

 

[wow6599]

Only buy FTF then.....no shipping or FFL required.

 

[writerinmo]

What about the seller who lists a firearm at prices that are more than new? I guess he would be a "high-baller" and just as annoying as the low-baller is? Is he trying to take advantage of someone who sees the gun and says "Oh, shiny!" and unquestioningly pays the marked up price? Is the seller going to say "Oh, sorry, that was just my opening price, here is what I will really sell it to you for" and knock off the inflated bucks? Didn't think so... I see a lot of posts on some forums where people get on someone for falling into an extraordinarily cheap deal on a firearm, is it a buyers responsibility to tell the seller that they aren't asking enough?

Fact is, it's both a seller's AND a buyer's market out there, just depends on what you come across, and the honesty and knowledge of those involved.

 

[Nushif]

You know ... if you had different figures I might agree with you. But 350 for a 650 listing? Why *are* you wasting that guy's time?

 

[TexasGunbie]

well there have been someone that list their gun for 600 but I bought it for 300 before. Some of them already knew that they are overpricing their gun for the purpose of bargaining.
As for the "save each other time" reasoning, I just don't see how sending email waste too much time.

But seems like I am the only one out here that would "lowball" someone.

So the definition of "lowball" is when someone list their gun 1000 dollars even if it's worth 500 new. Then offering 400 would be "lowball" right?

This is a sincere question though, because I always thought lowball meant you are offering too low away from the "reasonable price" of the gun.

 

[oasis618]

I do agree that alot of the used guns I see for sale are overpriced but I also agree with HK that offering just over half of the asking price is indeed lowballing and could be considered offensive. Just as you believe that $650 is way too much, the seller believes that $350 is way too little. Just try to meet in the middle if possible and if that doesn't work then just move on to the next opportunity.

For example, I have a gun for sale right now on this board (shameless plug). I bought it new and it has never been fired. I'm asking roughly what the retail price is for it but I'm open to reasonable offers; half of my asking price would not be reasonable to me.

 

[highorder]

So the definition of "lowball" is when someone list their gun 1000 dollars even if it's worth 500 new. Then offering 400 would be "lowball" right?

Lowballing is offering significantly less than the asking price, never mind the perceived value.

 

[writerinmo]

Lowballing would consist of offering less than the fair market value of the item, regardless of what the seller has it listed for. If it's worth $500 in the condition it's in, then offering anything markedly less than that would be lowballing. If he's wanting $1000 for it, then he's an idiot or worse and you don't want to be dealing with him anyways..

 

[oasis618]

Lowballing is offering significantly less than the asking price, never mind the perceived value.

This. If your perceived value is astronomically lower than the asking price then why even bother offering...unless you are just looking for an argument?

 

[TexasGunbie]

If your perceived value is astronomically lower than the asking price then why even bother offering...unless you are just looking for an argument?

Because like other have said, some seller have an "opening price". Even if they list their gun for 1000, you can offer 600 and they will be glad to sell it to you. Because sometimes the seller intended to sell for 600 but they mark it up so much for bargaining room. These sellers may also say "no lowball", and that's with the intention to make profit too.

No offer is too low, you never know what the intended sell price is. Usually when you deal privately, you assume that people are candid and honest about their prices. In actuality, the private market is like the stock market. There are people that will buy low and sell high.

 

[Nushif]

So you got angry because he wasn't one of those sellers?

 

[TexasRifleman]

If your perceived value is astronomically lower than the asking price then why even bother offering...unless you are just looking for an argument?

Ever watch Pawn Stars? Some people do crazy things when offered cash in hand.

I'm not sure I consider a lowball offer any kind of unfair or unreasonable act, the seller can simply ignore it if he's not interested.

 

[tinygnat219]

Sounds like you tried to lowball the guy. Who can blame him for saying thanks, but no thanks.

If his gun is truly overpriced, he'll realize it when he's still sitting on it 6 months from now.

As per your statement of why people always bring up the FFL and shipping charges, that's simply the cold wet fish of reality if you bought the gunon Gunbroker.com. Some folks are smart enough to use this as a bargaining chip. You can always counter by saying that you are saving him a consignment fee of 15-20 % from a local dealer.

Face to face sales always come with some hassles, negotiating is one of them.

 

[oasis618]

Ever watch Pawn Stars? Some people do crazy things when offered cash in hand.

I'm not sure I consider a lowball offer any kind of unfair or unreasonable act, the seller can simply ignore it if he's not interested.

Well yes, I do agree, but if someone is pawning something it is usually out of desperation more than just wanting to part with a firearm. Plus Pawn Stars is a television program created for our entertainment so what is shown is usually going to be on the extreme end of the daily business spectrum. I wouldn't really compare my wanting to sell one gun to fund another with some dude wanting to get rid of a hot air ballon or a guitar he claims was used by Santana.

I guess my point is that when someone is selling a gun it usually isn't because they need to, it's because they want to.

 

[Bula]

Not sure I get the term "low baller". If you state "OBO", don't get all bent out of shape when people make unreasonable offers, expect them. Tell them no and move on. Not to generalize, but gun sellers are often times a quirky bunch. Everyone brags about getting deals on these boards, that don't make'm low ballers. Some sellers are hungrier than others. Don't argue when a seller says no either. Arguing with a seller over what their merchandise is worth is rude. Just my opinion.

 

[hso]

Only the seller knows what they have in an item and only they know what they're willing to take for it. If you have some knowledge that makes you think that a different price is reasonable to offer there's no reason to not make that offer, but I think you should always explain why you've come to that price if there's significant difference.

I know folks that are active collectors/traders and who get something as part of their trading. They know what they "gave" for it and they know what the value is and they may be willing to get rid of it for somewhere between the two simply because they can.

As long as the offer is made in a friendly way with good reason then there's nothing wrong with making an offer if you think it is a fair offer as long as you're not trying to just cheat the guy.

 

[CoRoMo]

I don't offer the seller a low price that he has to work me up from, I offer him what I'm willing to pay. It's a 'yes or no' offer, so he can decide if he wants to sell that gun or not. A gun's value doesn't come from the price a seller wants for it, it comes from the price a buyer is willing to pay. IOW, it's not necessarily worth the asking price, it's only worth the 'sold for' price.

Sometimes I wonder if those over-priced guns on Gunbroker, aren't just a licensee that uses his license for his personal purposes, but uses his GB listings to show the ATF that he has guns on sale as proof that he's engaging in retail business, when he isn't really putting in much effort toward that enterprise.

 

[griff383]

Something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay. If the seller is in a hurry then they are at the mercy of the market. If they are not in a hurry and have a bottom dollar price they wont budge until it is met. I can see how someone might get offended by an offer that is lower than what they think the value of the item might be. Personally I dont get upset when this happens just because I understand everyone wants to get the best deal. The problem I have is when someone cant take no for an answer. I had a guy all over me about a rifle, I gave him my bottom line and he kept making offers below that. After a few days it got super annoying and I had to ask him to pay what I asked or leave me alone. Not long after I got what I was asking initially from another interested party so it all worked out for me

 

[Cosmoline]

I take sellers at their word and never dicker with them, unless it's to offer more on a really good deal so I can be sure to get it before someone else does. If they're asking too much, don't buy. Simple as that.

When I sell I list low and keep dropping till someone gives me a clear acceptance. This has made people mad in the past because they expected me to list high and then haggle over the course of emails while they kick the tires.

 

[HKUSP45C]

Not sure I get the term "low baller". If you state "OBO", don't get all bent out of shape when people make unreasonable offers, expect them.

In this case it wasn't the seller who got bent out of shape, it was the low baller.

 

[TriTone]

The mods hit it on the head on this one.