Problems with 45 ACP load

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haao13

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I'm very new to reloading and just loaded and shot my first batch of 45. While shooting I had two pretty substantial (on my mind) problems. First, I couldn't hit the ground if I tried. Even from ~7-10 yards I could barely hit paper and was all over the place. Second, it actually hurt my trigger finger while shooting. Not sure if this was trigger slap or what. Mind you this is a gun I'm very familiar with and generally shoot quite well and have never felt any trigger finger pain while shooting factory loads. Any idea or opinions on what I might be doing wrong would be great. Load and gun data are as follows:

Full size Smith M&P 45
Winchester LP brass (within spec for length)
Winchester LP primers
5.3g Winchester 231
230g Hornady fmj-rn
Seated to 1.25 OAL and crimped with a Lee FCD
 
That's a full-up load (but it should be OK)
What are you using for a powder weight scale?
 
Yep, that load should shoot well. You might be over crimping a little. Might try backing off the "crimp" some. All you want to do is remove the belling or maybe .001 more. Anymore is too much and can hurt accuracy sometimes.

It can be tough to adjust the FCD for pistol crimp by feel because of the carbide ring. Adjust the center part of the crimper way up, run a round all the way in the die (press handle fully down), then screw the center ("crimp") part down until you just feel it contact the case. That, or maybe another 1/8 turn, is all you need.

Welcome to THR
 
5.1 gn of HP-38 (same as Win-231) is my standard range load with 230gn 45acp and gave me the best accuracy out of my Springfield XD and XDS. Check your crimp as Walkalong suggests and try backing off the powder charge in 0.2 gn increments and see if you get an improvement in accuracy (don't go below minimum of course).

Were you shooting freehand or from a support? Is there any chance that your normal accuracy with factory loads was influenced, negatively, by the fact these were your first reloads? Just a thought. Good luck and welcome.
 
TRy a few lighter bullets or drop the powder charge a bit and see if that helps.
 
WalkAlong said:
...tough to adjust the FCD for pistol
Click to expand...
Yup. In fact I wish folks would just get rid of the term 'crimp' altogether for auto pistols.
Just minimally "size" the mouth back to 0.470/0.471" -- no more --and be done with it.
 
What does your crimp measure?

Have you double and triple checked your scale for accuracy?

Are you 100% sure the powder is 231?
 
Yup

Check yer scale and Crimp for sure

What Press are you using?

If you FEEL it that much.. I'd say yer scale/measuring is off..

Pics of a Finished Round would be good ta see the final Crimp also..
 
steve4102 said:
What does your crimp measure?

Have you double and triple checked your scale for accuracy?

Are you 100% sure the powder is 231?
Click to expand...
As for scale, I'm using a Lee pro auto disc and balance scale to verify throw. Each time I checked it, it was throwing 5.3 on the dot. I have two manuals (Lee and Lyman) and both say different charges for 230g so wasn't sure what to go with. Lee says 4.9 start and not to exceed 5.3 where Lyman says 5.2 start and 5.8 max. I read people general using 5.1-5.7 of 231 as their go to with great results. I was shooting freehand in this instance as I usually do. Crimp measures .471 (if I measured correctly). And im assuming it's 231. That's what the jug says at least, though wouldn't really know the difference just looking as this is the first powder I've boughten
 
I'm using a Lee turret press. I'm Also while crimping, on the downstroke of the ram (case coming out of the die) it like catches slightly almost. Kind of hard to describe but I'm assuming this isn't normal?
 
I'll see if I can figure out how to post a picture. Kind of is a stupid question but half valid. I shoot the gun pretty regularly and have to qualify with it minimum twice a year for work, so yes I could hit before
 
The slight catch you are feeling is the carbide sizing ring of the Lee FCD ironing out the round as it exits the die. It is normal. If the powder you bought is in a factory bottle and it was sealed when you bought it, then it should be the correct powder as identified on the bottle. Make sure your scale is properly zeroed. Do you have any check weights or a backup scale to verify you are getting good readings. Weigh one of your 230gn bullets and see what you get. It may not be 230 exactly, but it should be real close. What scale are you using? Is it the Lee safety scale? It's an accurate scale, but it can be hard to read. Assuming you are getting good readings, all I can suggest is reducing the charge. It just seems odd that you would get so much felt recoil from a 5.3gn load using a full size pistol.
 
I think this is definitely a powder charge weight problem. Suggest you get out the instructions for your scale and re-zero and re-check everything.
 
image.jpg

Hard to get a decent shot. As for a scale, I'm using a Lee safety powder scale. I didn't think 5.3g would be bad either considering people are using upwards of 5.6-7 with the same powder but the manuals saying different charges was fairly confusing. I'll go back to 4.9 and see what happens
 
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Shoots great with factory's. Accurate and doesn't hurt at all even after shooting 200 rounds. I shot 10 yesterday and my finger hurt for about 20 minutes after
 
There can be a lot of anticipation when shooting your first reloads. I suggest you try again now that you know the gun won't blow up in your hand. Keep your eyes open, no shaking hands, and hold the gun like it is not going to blow up. Then report back ;)
I shoot my 45's with 5.2 of HP 38 OAL of 1.24 using 230 grain RN
 
I've been using 4.6 grn of Win 231 under 230 grn Berry's plated round nose and have found that charge to cycle reliably in both a Springfield 1911-A1 & Para P14. I haven't gone back to my Lyman manual recently, but 5.3 sounds like it's creeping up to the high side as I recall. I'd suggest backing off a few tenths and see how those loads perform.

I happen to be using the same press, with an Auto Disk powder measure. For the 4.6 grain charge, I've found that the .43 cc cavity throws consistently within +/- .1 grain, which I verify prior to every loading session. Also do a few "audit drops" where I weigh 10 charges and record individual & average drop weights, verified on a digital scale - so my confidence level in charge consistency is high. You should have a similar experience.

As to the FCD, adjust it down just enough to remove the belling, as previously suggested.
 
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I believe it's the .49 disc. Pretty sure but can't remember off the top of my head without looking
 
Just as another picture. I did notice when I crimp the rounds, it leaves a "scuff" almost looking mark and the very top of the case. Not sure if this is normal or not. I also cambered a round to see it maybe it was too long and notice a very similar mark at the very bottom of the copper. Seems to do it to all of them (at least ones I tried). Could this be the problem? Sorry in advance for the picture. Hard to get any closer with my phone without it getting blurry

image_1.jpg
 
If there is is problem w/ the load (as yet TBD)
it's very unlikely to be in the seating/crimping.

Rather, I strongly urge getting any reference-quality
scale (mentioned above) to confirm the powder charge.
 
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