Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

[TerryCowger]

Okay, so I have a question, could you put a barrel like that in the picture directly into a model 25 and use it as a single shot?

As long as the breach has the correct thread and the air tube is removed, I don't see why not ?
I put the magnet at the very end of the breach, like inside the air chamber so no air tube for me.
Pictures, we all like pictures !
Terry

 

[Cvans]

Can the brass tube your using be substituted for a barrel? Specifically is the inside diameter correct. I'm thinking of using lead shot or .177 lead BB's in my modified 499.

 

[TerryCowger]

Can the brass tube your using be substituted for a barrel? Specifically is the inside diameter correct. I'm thinking of using lead shot or .177 lead BB's in my modified 499.

I would imagine it could as it measures 4.6mm but you'll get to the point that the BB's will get jammed inside the barrel because they don't measure the same.
Maybe your lead BB's are all the same size but how are you going to keep the lead in the tube, It's not magnetic ?
Terry

 

[Cvans]

Maybe your lead BB's are all the same size but how are you going to keep the lead in the tube, It's not magnetic ?

That's a good question and it leaves the door open for finding a solution. A ram rod and a small piece of felt or soft rubber protruding into the barrel at it's base is the first solution that comes to mind. Whatever is used will have to be soft so as not to deform the lead.
The Daisy match BB's are pretty darn consistent in size but light and tend to wander at distances greater than 10 meters. I'm hoping the lead BB's would be heavier and not ricochet like the steel ones. This is all just conjecture as I'm months out on my projects. I tend to think out loud when posting on here.

 

[TerryCowger]

You may want to ask Shane Bruce or Mark at colbalt327 ?
I think Shane mentioned lead BB's in one of his videos so I think they were used at one point ?
When I say same size I'm talking one or two thousands, believe it or not that's enough to make a BB stick in the tube. It's also enough to raise or lower the fps..................go figure ?
Terry

 

[teerex.otw]

I used the long drill bit from HF to mark the ST cap as you call it, I call it the muzzle. Then use either a 5mm or 3/16" drill for the hole through it.
I forget witch is smaller 5mm or 3/16 but I would drill smaller first and check the fit.
You want it to be snug and I would leave the fill tube sticking out of the muzzle just a little.
Also to speed up the BB filling process I put the rubber plug into the shot tube as I'm filling and that keeps the BB from going down the wrong hole .
The picture is from Amazon web page and has the data,
Hope this helps?
Terry.

View attachment 1141962

Terry,
I built one of these, and it works great !
Everything was a tight fit so I decided to put it together with E-6000 (although after it cures a few days I’m still going to paint the joints with epoxy).
The tubing you linked was perfect, almost like it was made for this !
Two other things; a #9 bit was almost a perfect fit for the end cap hole, just had to clean it out a little with some sandpaper, and if you don’t have the plastic cap (or if you lose it), one of those cheap, disposable foam ear plugs will work…kinda’ ugly, but it works.
The thing I like best is that you don’t lose (or double-feed) the first bb after reloading.

 

[TerryCowger]

Thats good news Rex, glad it worked out .
Did you get any fps numbers?
I think I posted this before but here it is again............................https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H5V4P1R?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details ( rubber caps)

 

[teerex.otw]

I don’t have a chrono yet (on my to-do list, just got some stuff ahead of it), but I can see a difference in drop @ 50 feet, it’s shooting flatter which tells me velocity has increased.
Next thing is to come with some kind of false muzzle to make loading easier…have a design in mind, if it works will post pics.
I also decided to adapt one of the tubes to a 1938b abutment assembly. This is a bit more difficult than the 25 tube, but if it works it should cure the failure-to-feed issues common to these models (more on that later too).
r

 

[teerex.otw]

“Laziness is the mother of invention” (unknown)
This is one possibility of a “feed assist” to use with Terry’s “Warp Speed” shot tube. Nothing more than an aluminum block with a locator pin in the bottom and an angled funnel. the pin blocks the bore to prevent unauthorized bb’s from entering, and aligns the funnel with the feed port.

 

[teerex.otw]

jeez…doing it that way didn’t work either…
2 extra images while deleting half of the text (sighing with exasperation !)
notes:
Ignore the small hole in the N.W. corner, serves no purpose.
The pin is made from a shanked 8-32 bolt, 2 wraps of masking tape provide a better fit in the bore (better alignment) while preventing metal on metal scraping.
Works with hand fed bb’s and should work with anything that feeds in a single-file line (I prefer Daisy pouch repro shown in photo)

 

[teerex.otw]

A quick update on this experiment…
It doesn’t necessarily need to be made of metal, I had some leftover scraps of hard walnut from a custom revolver grip project so I made one out of that…very easy and works well.
Also, just out of curiosity, I timed reloading start-to-finish (plug out to plug back in) three times, longest was 45 seconds…that’s faster than I can load one round in my muzzleloader!

 

[cobalt327]

Very cool! Rex, have you ever considered getting a 3D printer? I bet you could come up with all sorts of designs!

I've been making do with a silicone rubber "speed loader" that used to be available from Crosman, IIRC. I have one that's got to be 30 y/o (on the left in photo). Now they're available when you get Marksman BBs from Pyramyd Air: https://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/Marksman_Premium_Grade_Steel_BBs_5_1_Grains_Speedloader_1_300ct/439 (there are also Marksman "Laserhawk BBs listed on the PA site- they are NOT the same as the Marksman Premium Grade Steel BBs).

 

[TerryCowger]

I like your speed loader, just need a way to index it on the barrel shroud, maybe cut out the bottom side a little so it fits the end of the barrel keeping it from turning?
Oh, and you need to practice with the muzzle loader, because 45 seconds is just way, way, to slow. Just sayin........................
Terry

 

[teerex.otw]

Terry,
Yeah, I know…i was comparing to the .45 with patched round balls…I’m a lot faster with the .50 and slugs (powder measure doubles as a short-starter, no patch to trim).
I was considering using an indexing pin 180 degrees opposed to the loading port (would mean drilling yet another hole in the muzzle cap), I’ll probably try it at some point, but these first two are just proof-of-concept/prototypes.
I’m going to try to attach a couple of pics. one is the piece I made out of Walnut, the other is an experiment in progress (b-series abutment w/brass tube), this one is earmarked for a custom straight-stocked Ryder that I’m a long way from finishing.
Mark,
3-d printing would probably be a really good idea if this mod catches on, but the way I (don’t) get along with computers, it probably won’t be me doing it !

 

[cobalt327]

I hope the 1938B magazine pans out- it'd be great to no longer worry about misfires, not to mention no more BBs rattling inside the shroud!

 

[teerex.otw]

I hope so too !
I’ll gladly trade having to reload every 60 rounds or so for hitting a “dry well” every third, fourth, or fifth shot…just gets aggravating after a while.

 

[TerryCowger]

Looking good !
Why stop there, why not try the brass tubing for the barrel?
At 4.6mm it should get ya a few fps?
"DONT BOTHER" I just measured the brass and it's larger than a model 25 shot tube.
Terry

 

[TerryCowger]

I’m going to try to attach a couple of pics. one is the piece I made out of Walnut, the other is an experiment in progress

So why not use a 1" hole saw and from the underside of the "wood" part make a half moon like cut using the barrel as the center, then trim it away the wood leaving an open pocket, the barrel shroud would fit into it and could not rotate?
Make any sense?
Terry

 

[teerex.otw]

Sorry Terry, I’m not following on this one…because the locating pin going into the bore is centrally located, it would act like a pivot point (or an axle), so you can’t use the outside of the muzzle plug as a third index point, it would still turn…or am I missing something altogether ?

 

[TerryCowger]

Yes you would still use the pin to locate.
But you would have a cutout or well on the bottom side that the muzzle fits into, I guess ya could call it relief ?
The sides would keep it from rotating and the pin would locate it.
Clear as mudd ?
If I get a chance in the morning I'll try to draw it out for ya?

About the 38B ST are you going to bring the fill tube out the muzzle end so it to can be filled from the outside like we've done with the 25ST?
If you did you would be a hero to a bunch of people, easy load and more horsepower !!!!!!
If I can help ...............just ask !!
Terry

 

[teerex.otw]

Terry,
I will definitely be getting back with you as this project progresses.
The plan is to run the tube thru the bushing/sight so it loads just like the 25.
Plan-A is to fill the upper quadrant inside of the sight with JB and drill thru that to give the tube some support. I was considering center-drilling a short piece of shot tube to fit over the brass tube to strengthen the whole shebang, but don’t think there will be enough clearance.
I also need to brain-work a better way of attaching the brass tube to the abutment…right now it’s JB welded in place with a brass cover made from a .22 lr case (.010” thick) JB’d over the top. It fits ok in my short test barrel, but only just, and was a real booger to make…This is where the 3d printing Mark was talking about would come in handy, a plastic abutment top half with a 5mm hole instead of a slot would be golden.

 

[cobalt327]

It would be cool if the non functional under barrel magazine could be made into a useful part of the equation. But looking at it, it'd be more work for no apparent benefit to the overall picture. What gets me is, it would not have been hard for Daisy to have made the new style Red Ryder load nearly the same as the "Lightnin' Loader" of the 108-39 and 111-40/94/1938 Red Ryder models!

Daisy did play around with an interesting loading setup in the "transitional" model 95 in the mid-'70s (the 95 in the photos was made in '77):




As can be seen, there are elements of the bottlecap shot tube as well as the "B"-series shot tube. But that's for another day- the current project Rex has initiated is uber cool and I am hoping it bears fruit!

 

[teerex.otw]

Now that’s just cool ! Haven’t seen one of those before. Kinda’ wish Daisy would have stuck with it (absolutely detest the “laundry chute” on the side).
I suspect the reason they abandoned the Lightning Loader was at the insistence of their lawyers…they had a similar door on the 86-70 located on the bottom (which would have even been acceptable), but I’m guessing they went for the side because it’s almost impossible to keep your finger on the trigger while loading holding it sideways…and the close proximity of muzzle pointed near face probably gave them the heebies !
I agree it would have been easy for them to use the tube…I did a spring loaded one on a “mare’s leg” using mostly scrap parts, an engineer could have designed it easily and efficiently.
I’ll most likely do one of these conversions on a full size Ryder sometime, but I’ll have to either find some longer tubing or figure out a way to extend the existing tube about
1-1/2”, and refine a way of filling in the side hole that looks decent.
Like you said; “projects for another day”
r

 

[TerryCowger]

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...1/&temp_hash=80e8e3ebc3f1bb1831e0cd7494e84db4

I don't know if this is going to work?
I made a drawing on my thoughts on your BB filler.
Terry

 

[cobalt327]

Terry, I took the liberty of posting your pdf photo to this message, hope that's okay...