Recent Encounter in Denver Metro!

[ZeSpectre]

At the end of the day all this pontential bad guy actually did is give your homie a (percieved) dirty look& get off at the same stop, & lest we forget he also ran the first time your friend raised his voice.
I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like a bad guy to me

Folks can read Gavin DeBecker's "The Gift of Fear" or I'll sum it up in just a few words. If your instincts say there is a problem, LISTEN to them and un-ass the area if possible.

It's not an excuse for the CCW option to come into play without a lot more provocation but it's plenty of reason to go into evasive mode.

In the end we had the best possible outcome, everyone went home, nobody was even injured.
'nuff said.

 

[Czar]

Sounds like he handled the situation alright. The only thing to consider is that CCW and public transportation may not mix. I remember reading somewhere that RTD does not allow CCW on their vehicles. I don’t ride lightrail anymore so I can’t say for sure, but he may want to check into that.

Then there’s the theory that concealed means concealed

 

[.455_Hunter]

One of the great debates about CCW is behavior modification. As with most debates, there are two extreme positions, which I define in the CCW case by the following complexes:

"Superman"- I have a CCW permit, a tricked-out custom 1911 IWB with two BUGs, and I am going to go wherever, whenever, and however I please. This is the type of person who is setting themselves up for disaster, like intentionally walking through the bad part of town (while having no business being there), simply because you can. In the most extreme case, this person may border on vigilantism by trying to provoke an encounter by "innocently" flashing money or valuables.

"Hermit"- I have a CCW permit, but NEVER leave my house or property unless absolutely necessary, because I don't wan't to expose myself (or family) to ANY increased risk. This is the type of person who gets their groceries delivered, normally spends Saturday night loading ammo in the basement, and would never contemplate getting a baby sitter and enjoying dinner and a beer (or movie) in the "trendy" part of town. Hunting would be off of this person list as well, because other people in the woods have guns too, and you never know what they might do...

Most people on this board (I hope) try to strike a proper balance between the two as their life permits. The "Superman" mentality can get you into REAL trouble REAL fast. While there is nothing legally or morally wrong with the "Hermit" mentality, people who live like that probably are a little stressed out and don't have much fun in their lives.

I believe that I have found the proper balance for my MY life and MY family. Sometimes, my wife and I will be in the "questionable" part of town (e.g. East Colfax) late at night for a concert. Is this more risky than watching an on-demand movie from ComCast while sitting on the couch? Yes, of course it is, but sometimes we need to get out of the house for a while and take in some real culture. When we do this, we try to minimize our vulnerable time by parking close, staying in groups, maintaining good situational awareness, and carrying cell phone, flashlight, CCW as required.

Your mileage may vary...

In the case of my coworker and his gf, I think their evening plans were completely reasonable, and did not represent any sort of reckless behavior.

 

[.455_Hunter]

RTD...

I remember reading somewhere that RTD does not allow CCW on their vehicles.

Straight from the RTD website:

No weapons, firearms, or dangerous or flammable materials are allowed.

This is kind of a standard CYA blanket statement, because if they did not allow anybody with a pocket knife or cigarette lighter to ride the bus/train, they would not have much business. I doubt they have any official opinion about licensed CCW holder carrying on their vehicles.

Like everyplace else in Colorado, private property owners have the right to restrict conduct on their property. That it is not a LEGAL restriction by itself. IF they discovers your weapon, IF they ask you to leave, and IF you don't, THEN you may be subject to a trespassing arrest. It is no different than feeling like nature boy and going barefoot and shirtless in McDonald's.

Very few places in Colorado is it actually "illegal" to CCW (K-12 schools, secured government buildings, sterile area at airports, CU-Boulder Campus fire, etc.).

Like you said...

Concealed Means Concealed!

 

[mr_dove]

The Light Rail in Denver (perhaps everywhere) is a very popular alternative for people who want to go downtown and party without having to worry about driving drunk. It gets VERY busy when there are sporting events downtown.

 

[Deanimator]

Well first off let's be thankful that the situation didn't get past a few aggressive words spoken by your co-worker. Growing up in downtown Chicago I've expierenced simillar situations quite a number of times, with a few escalating past words, but that's for another time.

When I lived in Chicago, I usually conspicuously read a Shot Gun News while riding the El and the bus. When I was in highschool, I usually had my gym bag with a padlock through the draw strings. When I didn't have that, I often had a piece of hardwood dowel in my pocket.

While attending DePaul Law School, a friend of mine was accosted on a northbound El. He usually carried a briefcase. In this situation, he waited until the train was about to reach a stop and brought the case up between his wouldbe robber's legs so hard it lifted him up off of the floor of the car. He got off, a stop or two early, leaving the robber on the floor of the car curled up in the foetal position.

 

[testify4]

The RTD "ban" on weapons makes it interesting for a CCW holder. Add in the fact that you will likely be entering an establishment that serves liquor while you're out on the town, and it can be right out.

I have been considering some Kimber LifeAct in the coat pocket for those situations. I can run really fast, especially if I have a head start.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Add in the fact that you will likely be entering an establishment that serves liquor while you're out on the town, and it can be right out.

Hi tesify4,

I have some good news for you-

Colorado has NO legal restrictions about CCW in places that serve or sell alcohol!

No stupid 51% rule or whatever stupid crap the other states have come-up with.

At least our legislature/gov got something right when they past the "shall issue" bill back in 2003 or 2004.

Feel free to CCW while enjoying dinner at the Paramount Cafe or the Wynkoop Brewing Co.

 

[isuace]

Correct, just don't take a sip of your honey's drink.....one sip while carrying, and you are breaking CO law.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Correct, just don't take a sip of your honey's drink.....one sip while carrying, and you are breaking CO law.

Where does the law state that?

My understanding is that being "intoxicated" (as per DUI requirements) is the standard for CCW holders.

I could be wrong.

 

[BRASSM]

Situational Awareness

I reside north of Denver, and I have had to catch the Light Rail and all kinds of unusual hours. There have been incidents on the LRT of all of the passenger in a car being robbed. The cars are all independent thus isolated. And yes they do have Wackenhut Rent-a-Cop, they aren't everywhere. And NO your friend is not being racist. I'm black, and if someone in gangbanger apperal enters by zone, they will be scrutinized. enough said..There are two books by Marc "Animal" MacYoung that I recomend 'Cheap Shots, Ambushes, and other Lessons' and 'Violence, Blunders and Fractured Jaws'

 

[Erik]

Unless things have changed in the past few years:

Pocket knives with blade lengths under 4 inches are not defined as knives under State law; except in Denver, where pocket knives wiith blade lengths under 3.5 inches are not defined as knives under Denver law. (The Colorado Constitution provides Denver with unique Home Rule status.) If entering or transiting through Denver, use the 3.5 length as your guideline.

Think of drinking and carrying like drinking and driving. Not to suggest either is a good idea, per se, but if you remain under the legal limit you may do so.

Denver, with its home rule provision, views carrying differently than the rest of the state. (Have the courts decided the issue yet? If not, the city is no friend to carriers.) Expect to be arrested if it is discovered you are carrying while using the RTD system.

 

[Erik]

Glad to hear things worked out for your friend, by the way. Denver is a great city, but as with any city, there are real and present dangers.

 

[Fish828]

i don't know what it is like in that part of denver, but around here (philadelphia), on the train, subway, and bus, everyone dresses in a "thug" or "street" way so you can't just judge people off of what they are wearing. it's not an indicator of criminal activity most of the time; it's just simply a cultural/geographical/social/economic thing.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

One could always just not drink, seeing as alcohol tastes like ####, makes you feel like ####, makes you act like ####, and turns your brain and decision making to ####

 

[Dravur]

Sure I can...

everyone dresses in a "thug" or "street" way so you can't just judge people off of what they are wearing

Actually, I can judge them any way I like. If you want to dress like a thug, I will treat you like you are a thug. If you dress like an Amish farmer, then I treat you like an Amish farmer.

So, If you are dressed like a thug, attempt to stare me down and pass yourself as the biggest thug bad*** in town, then you will be treated that way.

I have no way to know if you are truly a thug, just acting like a thug or are a true poser thug. To me, you are just a thug and will be treated as such. Welcome to reality. The exits are at the side of the plane.

It doesn't matter the color, if you present yourself as a thug, you be a thug. I present myself as T-shirt wearing, shorts dude. I expect others to assume that I like T-shirts and shorts.

 

[jlbraun]

CO state law says you can carry if not intoxicated, and can carry in bars all you like.

If I go out dancing in Denver at night, I don't drink and hell yes I carry.

 

[Fish828]

Dravur, you missed my point entirely.

If you want to dress like a thug, I will treat you like you are a thug.

What I was trying to say is that not everyone who dresses in a way that you consider to be thuggish is a thug. Period. In fact, most of them are not. A lot of people simply dress that way so as to fit in with the environment they are forced to live in. Some of them are genuinely up to no good but that is not true of the overwhelming majority, especially in a very racially diverse urban setting. I didn't say anything about the way the person is acting, such as staring you down or other confrontational behavior, I was just pointing out the way one chooses to dress. Now, If you take into account other actions such as the ones you presented, that is a whole different story, but that is not the story I was giving. Now, I'm not saying that you don't have the right to view or judge or stereotype as many people as you want, I am simply explaining things from my side of the fence.

Welcome to reality. The exits are at the side of the plane.

I've been in reality, and believe me, it is quite real around here, and am doing quite well thank you.

 

[X-Rap]

People should care about how they look and act because you are judged especially in the initial contact. When I see a salesman come and try to do business with me and he has a ring in his lip or nose that conversation is done. Same with the sagging pants and tent sized shirts. You don't dare enter my house much less date my daughter. My 2 boys have been told the same, the elder got some ink on his arms but it can be covered and doesn't have offensive language, I'll never hold a military branch or unit tat against anyone but when I see the gang and racist crap then I've got nothing for them either. If you need to make a statement cool, just don't be pissed when someone makes theirs. Its called freedom.

 

[30 cal slob]

"Hermit"- I have a CCW permit, but NEVER leave my house or property unless absolutely necessary, because I don't wan't to expose myself (or family) to ANY increased risk. This is the type of person who gets their groceries delivered, normally spends Saturday night loading ammo in the basement, and would never contemplate getting a baby sitter and enjoying dinner and a beer (or movie) in the "trendy" part of town. Hunting would be off of this person list as well, because other people in the woods have guns too, and you never know what they might do...

Hmph. Well, I for one ENJOY spending Saturday night loading ammo in the basement (with a few beers, of course).

 

[Dravur]

What I was trying to say is that not everyone who dresses in a way that you consider to be thuggish is a thug. Period

I know exactly what you had to say. It's irrelevant. If someone is dressing like a thug due to it being in style, I will deal with them as if they are, in fact, a thug. If you portray yourself to the world as a gangsta, don't be surprised that you are treated that way.

I agree that not everyone who dresses as a thug is an actual thug, but it doesn't matter. If you portray yourself as a thug, the world will treat you as one.

Not everyone running down the street screaming at Aliens and has not bathed in a week is a homeless Wino, but hey, if it quacks like a duck.....

 

[NGIB]

If I don't know you personally, all I have to go by is the way you present yourself. If you look like a "gansta" - that's going to be how I see you until proven otherwise.

Sorry, but life is just that way...

 

[mgregg85]

Sounds like your friend did alright. I would be suspicious of a white guy or a mexican dressed that way as well, its not a racist thing, its just recognizing a potential threat. Sadly there are a lot of criminals that dress like that so you must be careful.

 

[papajohn]

455, I think your friend did fine. I was raised to understand that "if you look like food, you will be eaten", and your friend clearly showed he wasn't an easy meal. The staring and spatial invasion was clearly meant to intimidate, and it served to put your friend on full alert.

As for how one is dressed, I don't see any room for debate. You dress so people will perceive you a certain way, and if you want to look like a felony waiting to happen, that's fine. But don't act surprised when people treat you like a criminal scumbag, either. It's what you wanted.........right?

PJ

 

[Sage of Seattle]

If you can legally carry on the train why don't you?

I believe he said he took the train to and from work. There's probably a policy that says you cannot protect yourself while at work with a firearm, so ergo, you cannot protect yourself with a firearm while travelling to and from work either.