"Red Flag" laws..?

[cheygriz]

If our side doesn't come up with a workable solution that addresses abuse, but allows LE to disarm nutcases, I can guarantee you the other side will. And we won't like it.

One thing is crystal clear. Something needs to be done now, and something WILL be done. You can count on it. We can get out in front of it now, or we can whine, b!tch and moan and suffer the consequences later.

I don't want "them" writing the solution, so we darned well better step up and do it.

It's past time to find answers we can live with, and stop playing "Chicken Little."

 

[CoalTrain49]

If our side doesn't come up with a workable solution that addresses abuse, but allows LE to disarm nutcases, I can guarantee you the other side will. And we won't like it.

One thing is crystal clear. Something needs to be done now, and something WILL be done. You can count on it. We can get out in front of it now, or we can whine, b!tch and moan and suffer the consequences later.

I don't want "them" writing the solution, so we darned well better step up and do it.

It's past time to find answers we can live with, and stop playing "Chicken Little."

Who's playing Chicken Little? There are already 13 states with ERPO laws. More will follow. Does your state have one? Maybe you should write one yourself and submit it to your state legislators if they don't. Be sure to tell them not to abuse their authority and that you're a gun owner and you want to comply when your neighbor, spouse, girlfriend, etc. sets you up for a ERPO action. No need to hire an attorney either. Just tell them they can destroy your firearms. Maybe you will feel a lot better about our lack of enthusiasm.

 

[Deanimator]

If our side doesn't come up with a workable solution that addresses abuse, but allows LE to disarm nutcases, I can guarantee you the other side will. And we won't like it.

One thing is crystal clear. Something needs to be done now, and something WILL be done. You can count on it. We can get out in front of it now, or we can whine, b!tch and moan and suffer the consequences later.

I don't want "them" writing the solution, so we darned well better step up and do it.

It's past time to find answers we can live with, and stop playing "Chicken Little."

The only way to "get out in front of" the proponents of racially invidious gun controls is to DISARM, TOTALLY.

Unless you can "live with" registration, and end to shall issue concealed carry, and an "assault weapon" ban, don't play their game AT ALL.

In the 1930s, Churchill was a "Chicken Little" too... until the air raid sirens started going off.

 

[Deanimator]

And it's not too smart to post, in all capital letters, that you WILL NOT COMPLY or MOLON LABE. Might come back to haunt you.

How about, "NO, I REFUSE."?

 

[Deanimator]

A challenge!

If you think the potential for abuse outweighs the possible benefits, write a "model" law that addresses the abuse potential, but still allows LE to disarm criminals and dangerous nutjobs.

Not easy, is it?????

Criminals and those adjudicated mentally incompetent are ALREADY prohibited.

This isn't about disarming criminals and the insane.

It's about disarming NON-criminals and the SANE.

 

[cheygriz]

^^^^^^^^^

Perfect example of the "Chicken Little" syndrome.

The sky is not falling. A Red Flag law, whether well written or poorly written is not going to "totally disarm" the U.S. The so-called "domino theory" is a logical fallacy. "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" (after this, therefore because of this) is also a logical fallacy.

Those who will not accept reality will be crushed by it.

 

[Deanimator]

^^^^^^^^^

Perfect example of the "Chicken Little" syndrome.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Perfect example of the "Just get on the train, you're being 'resettled to the East' syndrome.

Nobody's buying the lies anymore.

 

[cheygriz]

Is the sky falling yet???

 

[Deanimator]

Is the sky falling yet???

Do you smell the bitter almonds yet?

 

[cheygriz]

Sometimes I think the truly radical, mindless "absolutists" are a bigger threat to the 2A than the antis.

 

[George P]

Is the sky falling yet???

What makes you think it hasn't already?

 

[Deanimator]

Sometimes I think the truly radical, mindless "absolutists" are a bigger threat to the 2A than the antis.

Sometimes I believe that the AHSA types believe their own propaganda.

 

[CoalTrain49]

If these ERPO laws will work in saving lives maybe we should try an ERPO law for impaired drivers.

I'll get an ERPO action started against my neighbor. I know he drinks and drives because I've seen him do it. The cops won't actually have to catch him drinking and driving, all they will have to do is kick in his front door and see if there's alcohol in his house. If there is they can impound his car for a year. He won't have any way to get to work and he'll probably lose his job but at least all of those people on the road will be safe.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Deanimator]

What makes you think it hasn't already?

Now, now, this thing would be so much easier if we just stopped making a fuss and got in the boxcars.

The ones telling us to do so get to go last...

 

[HEAVY METAL 1]

We here on the Left Coast (Oregon) have such a "law". What if you had trouble with a neighbor totally unrelated to guns,e.g. he's pissed that you don't cut your lawn enough, whatever, but he knows you have at least one gun because he has seen you load the car for a trip to the range. He (lying) calls the authorities saying that he heard you and your wife having a screaming argument and that you threatened your wife with talk of a gun being involved. To avoid running afoul of the no politics rule on this board I will not post the email I got from one of our legislators here in our state, but it suffices to say that person's views on how gun ownership should be treated, er handled would scare the poop out of you. We are on the precipice of the slippery slope. No Chicken Little fertilizer. I would post our politician's letter to me in a People's Opinions of the local newspaper, but then that would reveal my opinions on the subject and make me a target of theft or threat. I certainly have mixed feeling on the preaching to the choir concept VS making my feelings known to those outside the choir.

 

[Deanimator]

We here on the Left Coast (Oregon) have such a "law". What if you had trouble with a neighbor totally unrelated to guns,e.g. he's pissed that you don't cut your lawn enough, whatever, but he knows you have at least one gun because he has seen you load the car for a trip to the range. He (lying) calls the authorities saying that he heard you and your wife having a screaming argument and that you threatened your wife with talk of a gun being involved. To avoid running afoul of the no politics rule on this board I will not post the email I got from one of our legislators here in our state, but it suffices to say that person's views on how gun ownership should be treated, er handled would scare the poop out of you. We are on the precipice of the slippery slope. No Chicken Little fertilizer. I would post our politician's letter to me in a People's Opinions of the local newspaper, but then that would reveal my opinions on the subject and make me a target of theft or threat. I certainly have mixed feeling on the preaching to the choir concept VS making my feelings known to those outside the choir.

If somebody falsely gets me mixed up with the cops like that they might as well find some busy railroad tracks to lie on because it'll be a more merciful end for them. I'll literally end your life as you know it. I want NOTHING to do with the police and live my life accordingly. Screw that up and I sound the deguello. No quarter asked or given.

A team lead once lied to the cops and cited me as a witness to something he knew I COULDN'T have seen. I got him removed from the project and ended the sweet overtime racket he had going. He was inches from having my lawyer drop a dime on him for "witness" intimidation and suborning perjury. When I left the company, I dropped a dime on the project manager for negligent hiring, labor law violations, and HIPPA violations.

Homie don't play that mess.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

If these ERPO laws will work in saving lives maybe we should try an ERPO law for impaired drivers.

I'll get an ERPO action started against my neighbor. I know he drinks and drives because I've seen him do it. The cops won't actually have to catch him drinking and driving, all they will have to do is kick in his front door and see if there's alcohol in his house. If there is they can impound his car for a year. He won't have any way to get to work and he'll probably lose his job but at least all of those people on the road will be safe.

Makes sense to me.

Maybe do a background check at the the car dealership or the liquor store on the guy..?

 

[Deanimator]

Maybe do a background check at the the car dealership or the liquor store on the guy..?

Or the voting booth.

 

[Robert]

I want NOTHING to do with the police and live my life accordingly. Screw that up and I sound the deguello. No quarter asked or given.

This confuses me a bit, are you saying you are ok with, and would take part in killing cops?

These red flag laws are nothing new. In the state of Colorado, anyone arrested for DV must surrender their firearms to another party, can be a friend, and provide proof to the court that it has been done.

 

[George P]

This confuses me a bit, are you saying you are ok with, and would take part in killing cops?

These red flag laws are nothing new. In the state of Colorado, anyone arrested for DV must surrender their firearms to another party, can be a friend, and provide proof to the court that it has been done.

And why is their property automatically confiscated (and you sound fine with that?)

 

[Robert]

It is stateslaw and they are not confiscated unless they have no other option. Like I said, they can give them to a friend for safe keeping. No one is coming to kick down their door and taking them away. They can be surrendered to the SO or PD for safe keeping. The local evidence facility just received ba big up grade. All climate controlled and the like. Probably better than my safe...

And I never said that I was ok with it. I simply made a statement as to how things have operated here for the last, almost 10 years. If anyone place judgement or emotion in to my typed words, it was you.

What I am not ok with, and what will not be allowed is making veiled threats at killing cops, or anyone else for that matter. There are plenty of other forums that will gladly entertain that type of thing. THR is not one of them. We will follow the law until such time as the law is changed through proper legal mean.

 

[paulsj]

Who's playing Chicken Little? There are already 13 states with ERPO laws. More will follow. Does your state have one? Maybe you should write one yourself and submit it to your state legislators if they don't. Be sure to tell them not to abuse their authority and that you're a gun owner and you want to comply when your neighbor, spouse, girlfriend, etc. sets you up for a ERPO action. No need to hire an attorney either. Just tell them they can destroy your firearms. Maybe you will feel a lot better about our lack of enthusiasm.

Another benefit of such laws it that it protects the system or the state. People will be less likely to trust neighbors or others, therefore, they will be less likely to unite behind something making maintenance of status quo easier.
The banner of making society safe at expense of individual isn't a bad way for system to go. We have seen this with Yellow Vest movement in France designed to destabilize government of France and by association that of EU. While the incident in Strasbourg was horrific for victims their families and those present there it was Godsend for French Secret Service. This was wonderful opportunity for French Government to increase presence of law enforcement and military on streets to keep control of unrest. The populace will not object now because they can do Christmas shopping more safely.

 

[HEAVY METAL 1]

I made the post above as a possible scenario based on my work with veterans of some of our military's recent Middle East conflicts. Many vets have told me versions of this: Intelligence hears about a probable terrorist at such and such an address, storms the supposed terrorist's home only to find out it was a neighbor to neighbor conflict where one planted false information in hopes that during the raid the neighbor gets wacked.

 

[cheygriz]

If I truly feared that the U.S. government was "out to get me," I would either move to another country, or, better yet, seek professional help.

 

[Deanimator]

This confuses me a bit, are you saying you are ok with, and would take part in killing cops?

These red flag laws are nothing new. In the state of Colorado, anyone arrested for DV must surrender their firearms to another party, can be a friend, and provide proof to the court that it has been done.

No. I'm saying I want NOTHING to do with the police and conduct myself so as to minimize my contact with them. If somebody drags me into a situation where I get involved with the cops, I'll make that person pay a heavy price. I've done it before.

If somebody "SWATs" me, I will do my level best to make their life a hell on earth to the greatest extent humanly possible.