Renew an old subject:Remington R 51

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Remington would seem to want to keep the R51 alive as it is still in their online firearms catalog. As to whether it will actually ever become available with the problems worked out is another story.
 
So they have just decided to keep everyone's money huh? Classy. I will never buy a Remington handgun, and unless they remedy the situation by fixing the guns or giving full refunds, I won't be touching their rifles, shotguns, or ammo either. I will not do business with a company that treats customers that way.

They deserve to go out of business if this is what they are going to pull.
 
I would think that an interested ($$$) attorney would try to start a class action lawsuit. :evil:

The manufacturer has had more then enough time to fix the product or return the purchase price. If they aren't shoved they'll take all of the time they can get. :banghead:
 
I'm actually shocked there hasn't been a lawsuit already, to be frank. It's not like they don't have the money (700 trigger settlement) or the resources (new production RM380's) to satisfy their multiple past promises. It also isn't like there is an expectation they perform unprofessionally like so many flaky small-time gunsmiths/manufacturers. As the 700 trigger fiasco showed all of us, Remington has no problem stalling an issue for decades, and will not present a solution without being ordered by a judge to put up or shut up.

"unless they remedy the situation by fixing the guns or giving full refunds"
After, what, two years? I'd be wanting a little something-something on top of the gun I paid for in the first place two years ago, had I been fool enough to send my own R51 in. I don't think Remington is actually in a position to actually 'satisfy' their customers at this point; they can only placate them (or stall them).

My theory?
1) The guns that have been sent in have long since been shredded & recycled
2) The production fixes required have already been determined (hence new prototypes at SHOT/etc)
3) The suits have simply not authorized a production start at a facility, because they would rather be building guns that aren't already 400$ + 2 years in the hole
4) When all their new capital projects are complete (never), and all order backlogs are satisfied (never), and the company is somehow still in the black as far as operating capital despite their facilities having nothing to work on (impossible), then they will give the green light for the Alabama plant to begin production

I encourage any/all to send in their R51s for a 1911 or whatever, and stop waiting around for Remington to present them with a resolution. You'll be happier with closure and a decent gun (or some money minus opportunity cost), and I'll be happier with a slightly-rarer example of an industrial engineering disaster :D

TCB
 
Well I suppose they can always file for bankruptcy sometime in the future and then reorganize the company. :eek: :evil:
 
Wait, it's been two years? Wow, I knew I'd been busy but I've lost all track of time. I was thinking all this stuff went down in 2015. Yeah, they are past the point of no return with making things square with the customers. Reparations are in order.
 
I did the trade for the R1 and have been really pleased with it. Just bought the RM380 and, so far, very satisfied. BUT, I also keep hope alive that Remington will reintroduce the R51 before I die.
 
I was REALLY looking forward to the R51. It was going to replace 3 guns for me and be my primary carry and nightstand gun. My Ruger LC9S has those duties now.
 
The new little 380 seems to be working so far...
Click to expand...

Long as you disregard the takedown pin being able to fall out on it's own, it sounds like a par excellence pistol.

At the price point, one can also find guns that have significantly less risk of disassembling themselves. Different strokes and all.
 
Hate to hear this, I love my old…let me stress that


OLD QUALITY REMINGTON FIREARMS.

You people have way more patience than I. Hope you are treated well.
 
Long as you disregard the takedown pin being able to fall out on it's own, it sounds like a par excellence pistol.
Click to expand...

As in tipping the gun on its side so its pointing straight down and slowly retracting the slide until the hole and the pin match up exactly? And then the barrel pin falls out?

When I start hearing users report that the barrel pin came out on its own during carrying or firing - I'll believe it. Until then, this is just a lot of hyperbole.
 
C0untZer0 said:
As in tipping the gun on its side so its pointing straight down and slowly retracting the slide until the hole and the pin match up exactly? And then the barrel pin falls out?
Click to expand...

I have an RM380 and your description of how to remove the takedown pin is very accurate. Like many other semi-automatic pistols, the takedown pin is captured by the slide so that it can only be removed when a hole in the slide precisely aligns with the take down pin and it takes a bit of finesse to find that position and even then, if the takedown pin is lubed it doesn't fall out (the only time I've been able to remove the takedown pin without a tool to push from the backside on mine is if the gun is bone dry).

Under normal carry or firing use the pin can't fall out because the hole doesn't align.
 
I'm not sure what I'm looking at - I just checked the Remington website and it is prominently on display?
 
That certainly doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling of hope for ever having my R51 replaced. But it's not the first time I have been jerked around, or out right lied to, by people in this industry.....
 
I've heard more praise for Chinese made Norinco pistols than the R51.

I'll wouldn't accept a Remington gun made the last 15 years even if it was free. Actually, after hearing about the 700's propensity to fire without the trigger being pulled, I'll just state that I'll never accept Remington period. Dead company.
 
I wouldn't buy anything new from Remington or any of the businesses it's parent company owns if I had no other choice. I'd buy a 3D printer and make my own gun first. That outfit has ruined too many great American gun companies to ever earn a penny more of my money.
 
"I've heard more praise for Chinese made Norinco pistols than the R51."
My understanding is they are easily as good as Taurus if not better, so this isn't surprising (we in the States have a very limited view of Norinco due to the import ban; most folks' exposure is ancient AKs or SKSs from back during the Cultural Revolution days --not the greatest time for technical/engineering know-how in China)

TCB
 
"You people have way more patience than I. Hope you are treated well."

I wonder if there are any rules about publishing all the dimensions I took off my pistol when I had it apart..? :evil: Or manufacturing replacement barrels & bolts that would likely get the vast majority of guns working again?

The barrels are extremely simple, and the bolt a simple-ish two-setup job (well, when you aren't making it from solid MIM it is). Already on my list to make a 45acp "M53" if I get a chance to play around with magazine alternatives.

TCB
 
barnbwt said:
"I've heard more praise for Chinese made Norinco pistols than the R51."
My understanding is they are easily as good as Taurus if not better, so this isn't surprising (we in the States have a very limited view of Norinco due to the import ban; most folks' exposure is ancient AKs or SKSs from back during the Cultural Revolution days --not the greatest time for technical/engineering know-how in China)

TCB
Click to expand...
I'm just making a point that Chinese guns are better made then American made Remington's these days.

That needs to be repeated as often as possible because the suits and ties need to feel the weight of that albatross every second they're on the clock.
 
VA27 is about right here. I think the R51 is going by the way side and the RM380 is a awesome little gun. Not for everyone but they function and work very well. I think the RM9 based on the RM380 only slightly larger is in the works. The lock work on the R51 has to be just right to work correctly. The design mechanic's of the R51 was great when we built guns by hand, but today it's not profitable and the design has to be too refined to work properly. This design falls short for mass production. I don't blame Remington for trying to give us a handgun different from the rest, that's innovation. I say good try but the RM380 design works and functions a whole lot better by far. Other companies are trying different concepts too, look at the Walther CCP and that gun is on the fence also for functioning issues. I say they should have testing guns for these new concepts and the owners are aware of this fact so they are not risking their lives on a test gun until it's right. As long as they refund the dollars or replace the gun with a better model, I hope they keep trying to bring out innovating idea's. The buyer would be compensated if there is a problem and the buyer knows not to carry the gun until they are 100% functioning properly. Sounds good but this will never happen.
 
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