Ruger Reverse Move with LCP

[Coltdriver]

I have been looking at what Ruger did with the LCP and asking myself what is different about this. For the longest time I just could not put a finger on what had happened here.

Then it hit me. Ruger has taken a cheaper design and improved it. The KEL-TEC is famous for its following but everyone that has one knows that you must fluff and buff and do a few other things the get them reasonably reliable.

But Ruger has built an out of the box excellent little pistol closely based on the KT design.

When have you ever seen this done?? Everyone has cloned a quality piece in a cheaper form. Charles Daly, FM with the Hi Power, and so on. But I can not think of a time when a quality manufacturer with a known reputation for excellence, reliability and outstanding customer service ever took a cheaper variant and released in in superior form.

All I can say is I can not wait for their 9mm. I may pick up one of these LCP's in the meantime.

 

[mjrodney]

The P3AT by Kel-Tec has proven itself to be reliable for me, but I will admit that it's with ball ammo.

With dimunitive calibers, I tend to prefer the penetration of ball versus the portobello approach, in any case.

If you need to ask what the portobello approach is, you're not a cook.

 

[HisSoldier]

I saw one, another plastic pocket gun, so exciting.

 

[jocko]

so exciting

There not for everyone, that is for sure:banghead:

 

[jon_in_wv]

From the looks of it, it may the best pocket/back up gun produced. That does make it exciting to me. I currently carry a P32 in that role as the P3AT had a bit too much recoil for my taste. For a bit less powerful round I was able to shoot the P32 much more quickly and accurately. The Ruger appears to be slightly heavier and has a bit better ergonomics. It may be the perfect replacement for my P32. Small, light, powerful for its size, and ultra concealable. Very exciting to me!!

 

[5x5]

Can't wait for the Kahr p380.

 

[The Tourist]

I must admit that I'm a bit confused by the design, myself.

My .380 Colt is their "large frame" design, and it easily slips inside a belt and jeans. The Pony model is even smaller.

If weight was a factor, I'm sure titanium or scandium would provide a more durable and stable platform.

Certainly Ruger is a prestigious enough company with enough revenue to avoid having to make someone else's gun. The receiver on my 22/45 is in fact a polymer, but to be sure a great quality design, and forward thinking at the time that pistol was released.

I'm not sure I want to trust my life to a design where I say, "Well, I guess it works okay with ball." I want the gun to go bang every time.

 

[CZF]

I hakded a LCP today. No dry fire but the gun felt very light and fit into the palm of my hand. One thing that most reviewers seem to leave out is how THIN the gun is.

I would think it to be an handful with the hot JHPs.

I'm sure it is a very sturdy and reliable auto. Just felt
toyish to me.

 

[Rustynuts]

Unless Ruger can perform magic, I'm sure the LCP could use a fluff & buff out of the box too. I do a minor fluff/buff to all my new guns to help speed the break-in.

I think the LCP's allure is mostly cosmetic. Since they are both essentially the same price, I doubt Ruger can use vastly superior materials or manufacturing techniques over KT. Of course, some extra may be possible since I assume Ruger is a much bigger company than KT, better purchasing economies. I do like the looks of the Ruger over my P3AT though!

 

[jocko]

fluff and buff

fluff and buff CANNOT ever hurt any gun. Ruger no different, The one that my friend has 2200 rounds through it has not had that done,but if I owned one, I would do it just because I know how to and have the polsihing materials to do it. I don't think a new owner should have to fluff and buff any gun. Lets deal with opinion now. Will the Ruger work better than the kt380 Probably, Can I prove that??No. can you disprove that??No.There are many 1911's that also look much more alike than the Ruger lcp and the Kt 380, and some are junk, some are great and some are so-so. Quality of workmanship, quality of materials are very important in a well made gun. Just because they look alike does not make them the same.... the jury is basically still out on the lcp (pretty darn new right now). But from what I have read and heard so far, I think the Ruger will get a GUILTY verdict of being a very good ccw gun.

 

[jocko]

czf

I shot corbon out of my 380 and recoil was there but for me very tolerable. I knew what I had in my hand, I knew the ammo I was shooting, so I was prepared for it. Everyone wants the smallest of the smallest of guns and some have even on other forums wished that they wold make a 9mm the size of the kt380. Probably can't be done but if it could, can u imagine the compalints that would be forth coming from shooting that gun with any 9mm ammo. There is just nothing to hold on to . Sure can't blame the gun for that. If they made the grip bigger we would complain, when the produce what we "thought" we wanted, we find we can't shoot it. there is a trade off for darn near everything. The kahr PM9 is a good example of how small a 9mm can be and get reasonabley good feed back from shooters. I still read every once in awhile where a PM9 owner complaints about recoil due to its size and weight, and although it is small it is not in the same size/weight league and the kt 380 or the Ruger lcp.

 

[hankdatank1362]

I still don't see how this serves the role of BUG any better than an equally light (somewhat pricier) 5-shot .38SPL or .357 mag. I'm an auto guy, but gimme a snubby for backup any day. At least it will work with more than ball.

 

[jocko]

hankdatank

no argument there , to me the J frame Smiths is still the most reliable pocket gun one can efver stick in his pocket. Love my model 60, had about 4 months ago 6 J frames, all pre lock era, and sold off 5 of them JUST BECUASE.
great guns, you can't go wrong with a wheel gun in the front pocket...

 

[kokapelli]

Everyone wants the smallest of the smallest of guns and some have even on other forums wished that they wold make a 9mm the size of the kt380. Probably can't be done but if it could, can u imagine the compalints that would be forth coming from shooting that gun with any 9mm ammo.

It not only can be done, but has been done! It's the.....

 

[jocko]

kokapilli

oops forgot about that one, indeed one nice ccw handgun. I never have seen one other than photos and articles.

 

[Green Lantern]

Then it hit me. Ruger has taken a cheaper design and improved it. The KEL-TEC is famous for its following but everyone that has one knows that you must fluff and buff and do a few other things the get them reasonably reliable.

No, no no....you don't HAVE to fluff and buff them. At least not ALL of them. My 2nd Gen P3AT has been flawless. The only thing I did to get it reliable out of the box was to clean it before shooting it the 1st time.

 

[jfh]

Has anyone looked at the mag release on the LCP, and tried slamming a mag home? Does insertion have to be carefully done?

On my P3AT, I slammed a magazine home--and shaved that plastic release enough for the magazine to shift with resultant jamming and shucking. It took me a while to figure out the problem, and to fix it. As a result, my attitude about the P3AT is that it is a BUG only, save for those times when nothing else will work with my dress. Now the gun is 100% reliable--as long as I carefully do magazine changes.

If Ruger has fixed that design flaw, then that alone makes it superior. Kel-Tec is failing its owners by not making a design change to fix that. I don't even think the release would need to be metal / machined, whatever--just a superior plastic.

Jim H.

 

[wuchak]

I still don't see how this serves the role of BUG any better than an equally light (somewhat pricier) 5-shot .38SPL or .357 mag. I'm an auto guy, but gimme a snubby for backup any day. At least it will work with more than ball.

Because there is no such thing as a revolver that is as light and thin. My P-3AT with one in the chamber plus a full mag in a Destantis Nemesis holster with an extra mag (total of 13 rounds) weighs in under 16oz and is as thick as a typical leather wallet. My P-3AT is an early second gen and didn't feed HP's when I got it 3 years ago. I sent it back to KT and they returned it 2 weeks later. It has been flawless since.

If I went to Kel-tec and Ruger and took a half dozen randomly selected P-3AT's and LCP's out of the warehouses I would be shocked if there was any difference in reliability between the two.

I will say the LCP is a slick looking pistol. To me it has the same appeal as the PPK where the lines just work with the overall size. The P-3AT is functional but it is not pretty. If I was going out to buy one today I would get the LCP but I won't give up my P-3AT for one. I would like to try the trigger on that LCP.

 

[DevilDog0402]

I still don't see how this serves the role of BUG any better than an equally light (somewhat pricier) 5-shot .38SPL or .357 mag.

It is significantly smaller than a J-frame as you can see here:




It is also 5-6 ounce lighter (unloaded), and holds 2 more rounds.

That said, I prefer 5 rounds of +P .38 Special.

 

[Bob79]

I'm interested in the Ruger LCP to a degree myself, and would like to see it do well.

DevilDog-reference your pic of the LCP and J-frame, those are some larger grips shown there, and that makes a difference. I know the LCP is smaller, but the larger grips makes that difference look bigger.

Also, Ruger lists the LCP at 9.4 ozs, and I'm willing to bet that is empty weight with no mag. So you have to count the mag weight. And a mag has to weight what? At least an ounce or two. So the gun has to weigh at least 10.5 ozs with an empty mag.

The 340, and 360 from S&W weigh in at 12 ozs, so that is hardly a 5-6 ounce difference in weight. My 337 and 342 weigh about 10.8 ounces each, so there is almost no difference. And again you must include the weight of an empty mag in semi-auto, otherwise its a derringer. You don't see revolvers listing weights with no cylinder.

 

[DevilDog0402]

Bob - you're correct. I was thinking of the weight of the 442/642, not the scandium models.

 

[kokapelli]

Even with standard grips on the revolver, the LCP or the P-3AT are tiny next to the revolver and we're not even comparing thickness.

 

[wuchak]

The S&W 340 is $655 at Bud's. The Kel-tec P-3AT was $271 and street price on the LCP has been under $300. These guns are not at all in the same class. I don't think anyone considering a sub $300 pocket .380 has as their next option a $600+ revolver. It does show how much you have to spend to get close to the size and weight of the little .380's and even then the width of the .380's is roughly the same as just the frame of the revolver. Not packing that big hump of a cylinder makes a big difference. You avoid the "orange in your pocket" look. A better comparison for the 340 technology-wise would be the Rohrbaugh but the Rohrbaugh is a big step up in price. A better comparison for the pocket .380's would be the S&W Airweight line. Even they are around $400 or 33% more expensive than the .380's.

The P-3AT weighs 11.1 oz with a loaded magazine. The LCP is about 1.1 oz heavier. The S&W Airweights are 15oz empty.

I think the little pocket .380's are not only easy to carry "no excuse to ever leave home without it" guns, they are a real bargain for their price/performance ratio. Load one up with Double-tap's 90gr HP's that give 1000fps from the P-3AT at normal pressure levels and you've got a potent little gun.

 

[jocko]

apples and oranges possably

one is a 38 , one is s 380, there is a big difference IMO. the J frames are bigger, certain J frames are within a few ounces of the Ruger or Kt, to me that is no big deal either. If I can pocket a 10 ounce gun I can pocket a 12 ounce gun. a wheelgun will undoubtely be more dependabel than any semi, and a j frame Smith for sure. I would have no issue carrying either one, but if I want firepower the 38 spl is the way to go..FWIW

 

[HisSoldier]

The one I saw at a gunshow last weekend had several of the same design flaws that the Kel-Tec has. Most notably, the trigger is plastic, which of course means it doesn't have enough strength to do it's job without help from good old steel. Like the Kel-Tec they pushed a steel pin through the axis of the trigger to take the load. I didn't take the gun apart but saw no difference! This is the place where my KT failed to function, the trigger would not release the hammer. If it had happened while some gang banger was shotting at me I'd have been dead! This is serious stuff people! You go ahead and buy plastic crap if you want but once was enough for me, for me it's steel all the way from now on.
Otherwise, if I can't carry a reliable gun, there is no good reason to carry one at all. The gang bangers carry steel guns, except for a few who carry guns made of recycled hot wheels.