Saudi Naval base killer exploited LOOPHOLE to purchase handgun

[old lady new shooter]

I am however somewhat dismayed that a Pensacola FFL thought that the stringy dude with the familiar accent buying a handgun via the hunting exemption didn't think twice. It's all very well saying how much red flag laws are abused but if this wasn't a case where red flags should have been flying, then there are none. I can only think of the scene in the movie Borat when he's buying an SUV.

"profiling"

 

[Rule3]

"profiling"

I believe a FFL is the "front line" and can refuse to sell to anyone if they think something is fishy.??

 

[Rule3]

My son is TDY at Pensacola from San Diego for two weeks - he was on base when the shooting occurred. His thoughts were that he found it very bizarre that 15k trained military personnel, members of the greatest fighting force the world has ever known, were sitting duck targets having no weapons to return fire. It does seem ironic.

Pretty amazing that local Sheriff Deputies had to come and stop the Shooter??

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pen...ect-identified-member-saudi/story?id=67555812

Are there no MPs on bases??

How about the Fort Hood shooting??

 

[Dibbs]

I am however somewhat dismayed that a Pensacola FFL thought that the stringy dude with the familiar accent buying a handgun via the hunting exemption didn't think twice. It's all very well saying how much red flag laws are abused but if this wasn't a case where red flags should have been flying, then there are none. I can only think of the scene in the movie Borat when he's buying an SUV.

Yeah, they want to beat law abiding gun owners to death with Red Flag laws, but where are the Red Flags, when they are needed? If somebody were to say
"Muslims, and people of middle east origin need to be Red Flagged", everybody would go bananas. But an unfortunate truth is that in a very high percentage of cases, these are the people DOING the shooting, while normal Americans are perceived by the public to be at fault, through media manipulation.

 

[cjwils]

Did the shooter have a valid hunting license, and did the FFL check that and record it as required by 4473? I have not seen any mention of that part of the process.

 

[fireside44]

Yeah, they want to beat law abiding gun owners to death with Red Flag laws, but where are the Red Flags, when they are needed? If somebody were to say
"Muslims, and people of middle east origin need to be Red Flagged", everybody would go bananas. But an unfortunate truth is that in a very high percentage of cases, these are the people DOING the shooting, while normal Americans are perceived by the public to be at fault, through media manipulation.

Mainly sprung from the USA military wrongly being used on people and places that arent within our borders along with decadent Western culture spreading obscene material and filthy abominations of every sort around the globe. In traditional middle eastern societies who are conservative, isolated, and religious it is easy to convince people that the US government is evil because, well, among traditional christian conservatives even within the USA that is kind of a prevailing thought. It makes radicalization of anyone easier.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

I actually think this is the important part of the law

"(4) is an official representative of a foreign government who is accredited to the United States Government....(etc,etc)"

He IS an official representative of a foreign government since he is from the Saudi military conducting official business for his govt

 

[cjwils]

If we look at the exact language as posted above by Spats, the pertinent parts are as follows:

"(2) Exceptions.--Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is--
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;
(B) an official representative of a foreign government who is--
(i) accredited to the United States Government or the Government's mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or
(ii) en route to or from another country to which that alien is accredited;
(C) an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or
(D) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business....."

Under 2A, he was not admitted for hunting or sporting purposes. This appears to not be applicable.
Under 2B(i), was he accredited to the US government? What does that mean?
Under 2B(II), he was not en route to another country, so that does not apply.
Under 2C, is a foreign military officer an official of a foreign government, and was he so designated by the State Dept?
2D does not apply, as he was not a foreign law enforcement officer.

Thinking about those factors, it is not clear to me if he had a legal right to buy a gun, unless he was covered by 2B(i) or 2C.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Official DoD policy.

https://fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/d5210_56.pdf

Short take. It depends on the command.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Yeah, they want to beat law abiding gun owners to death with Red Flag laws, but where are the Red Flags, when they are needed? If somebody were to say
"Muslims, and people of middle east origin need to be Red Flagged", everybody would go bananas. But an unfortunate truth is that in a very high percentage of cases, these are the people DOING the shooting, while normal Americans are perceived by the public to be at fault, through media manipulation.

That isn't the purpose of red flag laws. I know a Muslim who is a US citizen. Are you going to jam that guy up because of his religion? What exactly is a "normal American" and what is their religion? Even if you changed the law so only US citizens could purchase you would still miss a large number of potential mass shooters because any religious screening would be unconstitutional.

I see this going into the weeds real fast.

 

[Insignificant bill]

See: https://kanavatauki.wordpress.com/2016/11/01/gun-control-us-vs-finland/
Interestingly, Finland is not far behind America in terms of the rate of private gun ownership. In a study consisting of 178 countries, the United States ranks at no. 1 when speaking of the rate of privately owned firearms per 100 population. In comparison, Finland ranks 4th yet generally gun control does not seem to be as hotly debated in Finland as it is in the US and that is largely due to the fact that gun deaths are not as prevalent in Finland as they are in the US.

How can that possibly be? (He asks)

Probably because we have a lot larger population with alot more criminals

 

[GEM]

Closing this as it is going into religion and the posters who are going there are flat out wrong about their claims. We do not classify people's rights to own guns based on their religion, period.