Self Defense...
- Thread starter Diane49
- Start date
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azhunter122
Member
Good luck using a handgun for self defense in NJ! And no I've never used mine but my dad has on two occasions when he was off duty, hundreds of times when he was on duty I'm sure.
tank mechanic
Member
I saw your other thread asking about women on the board and you said that you are just starting out into the world of fire arms. The cornered cat website is tailored for women and can answer a tons of questions for you. It is highly recommended for the beginning shooter and there is even good info in there for the seasoned shooter.
http://www.corneredcat.com/TOC.aspx
http://www.corneredcat.com/TOC.aspx
I think what was meant by the Good Luck thing was NJ is not the most gun friendly state. Are you looking for a .357 for concealed carry if so. I second the good luck in getting your ccw. If you are wanting something for home defense you will probably still have a few hoops to jump through. There are several great models of Ruger and S&W wheel guns that would fit. I have a GP100 that I really like. Taurus also makes a fine revolver it will just depend on what feels good in your hands.
larry_minn
Member
As I don't know NJ laws properly (but have heard negative stories) ...
Forget the handgun and get a 12 guage shotgun and join clay pigion/skeet/ other. As you are talking (I assume) home defense.. If someone breaks in you call 911 and get family to cover and engage if they advance. (you will have some slugs/buck to go to MN hunting next yr)
Find out local laws/what is allowed. Good luck.
Forget the handgun and get a 12 guage shotgun and join clay pigion/skeet/ other. As you are talking (I assume) home defense.. If someone breaks in you call 911 and get family to cover and engage if they advance. (you will have some slugs/buck to go to MN hunting next yr)
Find out local laws/what is allowed. Good luck.Oh my don't tell me I'm going to have a difficult time here? No I wasn't planning on using it as a concealed weapon... just for in my home.. But A very dear friend has suggested the guns you have mentioned but I still haven't decidedd on which one yet.. Thanks for the Luck looks like I'm gonna need it <sighs>
Don't know how far you are from PA, but Ayoob is running LFI I in Harrisburg in June:
http://www.ayoob.com/LFIschedule.html
That's about the best advice I can give
Hello and welcome, Diane.
Plenty of people purchase handguns for SD purposes. Unfortunately you live in NJ and the laws there put more obstacles in your path than most states..
To purchase any firearm you must first have a Firearm ID (FID). Additionally, if you wish to purchase a handgun you must also have a handgun permit. These can both be obtained at your local police department.
Depending on where you are it can take up to 4 or even 6 months to receive these. I'm not sure what the fee is.
Once you have a handgun permit it lasts for 30 days (i believe). In that 30 days you must put it to use or you will have to repay the fee and go through the process again.
Here is a site that covers some of this information.
http://www.njguns.com/laws.htm
Anyone recommending a handgun to Diane49, please be aware that it cannot have more than a 15 round capacity.
Plenty of people purchase handguns for SD purposes. Unfortunately you live in NJ and the laws there put more obstacles in your path than most states..
To purchase any firearm you must first have a Firearm ID (FID). Additionally, if you wish to purchase a handgun you must also have a handgun permit. These can both be obtained at your local police department.
Depending on where you are it can take up to 4 or even 6 months to receive these. I'm not sure what the fee is.
Once you have a handgun permit it lasts for 30 days (i believe). In that 30 days you must put it to use or you will have to repay the fee and go through the process again.
Here is a site that covers some of this information.
http://www.njguns.com/laws.htm
Anyone recommending a handgun to Diane49, please be aware that it cannot have more than a 15 round capacity.
sidheshooter
Member
Seconding the Ayoob/LFI recommendation.
Also, a good, lightly used K-frame S&W in .357 would be a great 1st gun for home defense, IMHO. Heck, I am a long ways down the road from that first gun, and I still like my model 65 .357 S&W. A lot.
Don't look down on the same thing (ie: 64 or model 10) in .38 either (I've also got a model 64 that I shot "top of class" with in the above mentioned LFI-1).
Just one opinion.
Also, a good, lightly used K-frame S&W in .357 would be a great 1st gun for home defense, IMHO. Heck, I am a long ways down the road from that first gun, and I still like my model 65 .357 S&W. A lot.
Don't look down on the same thing (ie: 64 or model 10) in .38 either (I've also got a model 64 that I shot "top of class" with in the above mentioned LFI-1).
Just one opinion.
sidheshooter
Member
Actually, atticum reminds me to ask: Does NJ still forbid hollowpoint ammo?
I neglected to consider that in my above post... if the answer is "yes", then I'm not so sure about the .357 recommendation...
NJ could truly be one of the greatest reasons ever to own a .44 special, if they still forbid the use of CERs.
Atticum?
I neglected to consider that in my above post... if the answer is "yes", then I'm not so sure about the .357 recommendation...
NJ could truly be one of the greatest reasons ever to own a .44 special, if they still forbid the use of CERs.
Atticum?
larry_minn
Member
Sorry I don't normally look at poster name. There are a variety of guns that will work. BUT if I may. They are NOT the first thing to consider. (and not the cheapest/easiest)
First take look at your house. Do you have good doors/windows with good locks? Do you LOCK the dang things every time? Do you have a interior room with solid core door with a good lock? (your bedroom is best but bathroom can fill in till you get bedroom wimpy door replaced) Do you have a old cell phone in there? (is it charged?) That old cell phone if digital will still work for 911 by fed law.
I would suggest trying a variety of firearms. The 12 guage with reduced recoil buck/slug does NOT have rough recoil if you hold it firmly against your shoulder. (In practice if you are forced to use it in self defense you likly won't even notice it) IF you feel its too much the 20 guage is a option. (slightly harder to find buckshot) Take a firearms safety course. I feel it would be best if you try out clay/skeet shooting so you get used to aiming/fireing/loading/safely handleing it. (its cheap, you use cheaper/lightly loaded rds to shoot it) Then take a basic shotgun course.
If you want a revolver for a reason go for it. (checking local laws) and also try to get involved in firearms safety course/some type of handgun shooting.
BTW you will have to decide (after) a safety course which rules you will "bend" to your situation. .....
I.E. many will say to have the gun locked up and the ammo locked up in a seperate location. (not overly helpful in self defense) So most will load shotgun with chamber empty hammer down(often called "cruiser ready") and secure shotgun in that condition. Where you live/who lives with you/ who has access to your house........ all matter.
Really I feel a local safety course is your best start. I just wanted to mention that you don't have to follow thier advice if it is wrong for your situation.
EXCEPT Treat EVERY gun as if it is LOADED. Never allow muzzle to cover anything you don't want to destroy) Be aware of your target (ID) and what is behind it. Those should be written in stone.
First take look at your house. Do you have good doors/windows with good locks? Do you LOCK the dang things every time? Do you have a interior room with solid core door with a good lock? (your bedroom is best but bathroom can fill in till you get bedroom wimpy door replaced) Do you have a old cell phone in there? (is it charged?) That old cell phone if digital will still work for 911 by fed law.
I would suggest trying a variety of firearms. The 12 guage with reduced recoil buck/slug does NOT have rough recoil if you hold it firmly against your shoulder. (In practice if you are forced to use it in self defense you likly won't even notice it) IF you feel its too much the 20 guage is a option. (slightly harder to find buckshot) Take a firearms safety course. I feel it would be best if you try out clay/skeet shooting so you get used to aiming/fireing/loading/safely handleing it. (its cheap, you use cheaper/lightly loaded rds to shoot it) Then take a basic shotgun course.
If you want a revolver for a reason go for it. (checking local laws) and also try to get involved in firearms safety course/some type of handgun shooting.
BTW you will have to decide (after) a safety course which rules you will "bend" to your situation. .....
I.E. many will say to have the gun locked up and the ammo locked up in a seperate location. (not overly helpful in self defense) So most will load shotgun with chamber empty hammer down(often called "cruiser ready") and secure shotgun in that condition. Where you live/who lives with you/ who has access to your house........ all matter.
Really I feel a local safety course is your best start. I just wanted to mention that you don't have to follow thier advice if it is wrong for your situation.
EXCEPT Treat EVERY gun as if it is LOADED. Never allow muzzle to cover anything you don't want to destroy) Be aware of your target (ID) and what is behind it. Those should be written in stone.
Black Knight
Member
While NJ is not a gun friendly state a 357 is not a bad place to start. I would recommend using .38 Spec+P loads in it for starters until you get used to the recoil. A 357 recoils a bit stiffer than a 38 Spec. You could use a jacketed soft point or a lead semi-wadcutter design. These are legal as they are not hollowpoints from what I understand. Good luck and if you haven't already please take a firearms safety course. For that matter take as many firearms courses (from reputable sources) as you can.
ByAnyMeans
Member
Diane49:
NJ laws can be tough. I believe you need a permit for each handgun you purchase, how difficulty to get depends on your area. I believe around Philly is tougher on handing them out.
My friend lives around Clifton NJ and she was unable to get the permit, even though she is a lawyer. She was fresh out of law school and could not afford all of the fees and she would have had to hire her own lawyer because she did not pass the bar exam yet. She was going to get a lawyer as the only way to navigate the process. I have heard her family who lives in middle N.J. has several handguns.
My friend ended up getting a shotgun. She is comfortable with it and a permit to carry is impossible so it would only be for home defense. You also need a permit to purchase a longgun but they are easier to get and you only have to pay the fees once for a permit and can purchase multiple longguns off of it as opposed to a permit for each handgun.
A shotgun is a formidable self defense weapon and my fiance handles a 12 gauge with the best of any shooters we go out with. It took a bit of practice and proper stance is huge but a shotgun can be tamed with the right technique.
If you are able to get a handgun then what you shoot best should guide your purchase. My fiance loves to shoot the .45acp at the range but both of our handguns for self defense are in 9mm. Take the NRA safety classes and then handgun class geared towards familiarizing yourself with them and basic shooting skills. Next you look for a handgun self defense class. You could also get a 22lr conversion kit for many popular pistols and this is a great way for cheap practice.
NJ laws can be tough. I believe you need a permit for each handgun you purchase, how difficulty to get depends on your area. I believe around Philly is tougher on handing them out.
My friend lives around Clifton NJ and she was unable to get the permit, even though she is a lawyer. She was fresh out of law school and could not afford all of the fees and she would have had to hire her own lawyer because she did not pass the bar exam yet. She was going to get a lawyer as the only way to navigate the process. I have heard her family who lives in middle N.J. has several handguns.
My friend ended up getting a shotgun. She is comfortable with it and a permit to carry is impossible so it would only be for home defense. You also need a permit to purchase a longgun but they are easier to get and you only have to pay the fees once for a permit and can purchase multiple longguns off of it as opposed to a permit for each handgun.
A shotgun is a formidable self defense weapon and my fiance handles a 12 gauge with the best of any shooters we go out with. It took a bit of practice and proper stance is huge but a shotgun can be tamed with the right technique.
If you are able to get a handgun then what you shoot best should guide your purchase. My fiance loves to shoot the .45acp at the range but both of our handguns for self defense are in 9mm. Take the NRA safety classes and then handgun class geared towards familiarizing yourself with them and basic shooting skills. Next you look for a handgun self defense class. You could also get a 22lr conversion kit for many popular pistols and this is a great way for cheap practice.
Wolfeye
Member
I also recommend Cornered Cat; there's a lot of good info on there, and I read it all when I was considering to buy a handgun for defense. Here are a few other good reads:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/guns_home_defense.htm
http://www.io.com/~cortese/firearms/index.html
My own two bits... it's a good idea to start off with a general self-defense class, one that doesn't even involve firearms. They will teach you how to have a good mindset and what you can do when something happens. Building on that, you can then take more specific classes: use of pepper spray, and then a basic handgun safety course ("Insights" is a good place for this where I'm from, but I don't know about NJ). Getting education and training are always a good way to start.
Always take things that people tell you with a grain of salt. There are plenty of choices out there, and they're yours to make; some instructors will work better for you than others, some models/makes of guns will feel good in the hand while others don't.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/guns_home_defense.htm
http://www.io.com/~cortese/firearms/index.html
My own two bits... it's a good idea to start off with a general self-defense class, one that doesn't even involve firearms. They will teach you how to have a good mindset and what you can do when something happens. Building on that, you can then take more specific classes: use of pepper spray, and then a basic handgun safety course ("Insights" is a good place for this where I'm from, but I don't know about NJ). Getting education and training are always a good way to start.
Always take things that people tell you with a grain of salt. There are plenty of choices out there, and they're yours to make; some instructors will work better for you than others, some models/makes of guns will feel good in the hand while others don't.
jjohnson
Member
Shotgun
Ma'am,
Welcome, glad you're with us.
I've been an avid shooter for 46 years now, and while I consider myself reasonably experienced with handguns at this point, I respectfully submit that a .357 Magnum may not be the best choice for a beginner for self defense. At the "indoor" ranges at home, a shotgun loaded with buckshot is a better killer
and easier for a novice to use without hurting themselves. If you're in an event where you MUST use a firearm, chances are you're going to be a bit shaky - and you have a better chance with the shotgun.
If you're determined to get a .357, that's your choice, I'd recommend that you find a "shooting buddy" with experience (or an instructor, NRA qualified) to get you started with .38 Special target ammo until you're comfortable with it. Starting out with "high end" magnum loads might be more blast than you expect. I've seen new shooters come to the range with their big, bad magnum with the baddest ammo they could find, and leave before finishing one box of cartridges, because it was more than they expected.
I do recommend that if you're set on having a handgun for home defense, get some instruction, and find a gun shop with a range that rents firearms. Try several on for size - so you can make your first purchase with some confidence.
You've arrived at a site where many of us are happy to welcome you and give you "free advice," worth, it is said, what you paid for it.
p.s. - Sorry to hear you're in New Jersey. As pointed out, it's not a "firearm friendly" state.
Ma'am,
Welcome, glad you're with us.
I've been an avid shooter for 46 years now, and while I consider myself reasonably experienced with handguns at this point, I respectfully submit that a .357 Magnum may not be the best choice for a beginner for self defense. At the "indoor" ranges at home, a shotgun loaded with buckshot is a better killer
and easier for a novice to use without hurting themselves. If you're in an event where you MUST use a firearm, chances are you're going to be a bit shaky - and you have a better chance with the shotgun.If you're determined to get a .357, that's your choice, I'd recommend that you find a "shooting buddy" with experience (or an instructor, NRA qualified) to get you started with .38 Special target ammo until you're comfortable with it. Starting out with "high end" magnum loads might be more blast than you expect. I've seen new shooters come to the range with their big, bad magnum with the baddest ammo they could find, and leave before finishing one box of cartridges, because it was more than they expected
.I do recommend that if you're set on having a handgun for home defense, get some instruction, and find a gun shop with a range that rents firearms. Try several on for size - so you can make your first purchase with some confidence.
You've arrived at a site where many of us are happy to welcome you and give you "free advice," worth, it is said, what you paid for it.
p.s. - Sorry to hear you're in New Jersey. As pointed out, it's not a "firearm friendly" state.
Last edited:
KarenTOC
Member
I agree with everything jjohnson said!
sm
member
Diane49,
Welcome to THR.
To answer your question, yes, some ladies have purchased a firearm and have employed the firearm to stop a threat.
I recommend :American Tactical Shooting Association
http://www.teddytactical.com/
The reasons are simple there is more to staying safe than having an firearm.
Simple fact is, choosing a gun is the easy part.
Another hard cold hard fact is, some ladies do not want another lady to assist them in shooting.
The Hardware , which is gun, holster, knife, baseball bat, cast iron skillet, ...etc. is NOT going to keep you or anyone safe just because you have these physical items.
Software is needed, and the ATSA site is one I recommend always, for anyone, especially ladies.
Software is Mindset, and Skillset.
Without these, it does not matter what kind of gun, or anything else "hardware" (physical) you have, because hardware alone will not keep you safe.
Investigate & Verify are two more huge tools in the toolbox of staying safe.
I am not familiar with your laws and regulations, and being honest many here on THR do not. Heck, I bet your neighbors don't.
I am sorry, still you are going to have to be brutally honest and access you , your environment, and your ADLs (activities of daily living).
This is why I strongly urge you to read the ATSA site, and even better would be contacting them and getting to visit them. Yes, some of their members are in NJ. So contact these wonderful folks and get some quality information for where you are.
Skip Gochenour .
Read any and everything this gentleman writes.
Scroll down to "Talking To The Indians" if you will.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2005/03_StudyDay.htm
Ma'am, there are different Models of criminals.
I really care about you having the Software, including information about various models of criminals you need to be especially concerned about for you, your environment and ADLs.
Permission to be blunt, still it does make a rip to me if one is physically limited and cannot rack a slide, they hate semi-autos, and prefer revolvers so racking a slide means zilch, if the gun is pink and yellow with polka dots, holds umpteen bazillion rounds and the holster matches the earring and pendant or...
Software, not Hardware is what I care about.
I don't know, what your personal situation is, and it is none of my business.
Nor do I know what models of criminals you might be more prone to be targeted by.
i.e. You are a CEO of a business, so that attracts some "professional models" prone to kidnapping.
You are the Mgr of a Coin shop, so the models of criminal might include kidnapping to force you or someone else to open the safe/vault. Other professionals that bypass alarms, and use burn bars to open safe/vaults.
See everybody defaults to "gun" and the only darn model of criminal they think of is some droopy drawer gang type.
Ladies at least have enough sense to know there are some "creeps" and "pervets" out, and the nice looking guy might be a rapist.
Guys are dumb as bricks and think that hot honey hanging all over them, do so because she likes them. She is instead is taking point to take them down with her team.
Ma'am, please do visit the ATSA website.
I am just a dumb southern boy.
springmom is a nice Southern Belle member here at THR, and bless her heart, she married a damn Yankee that spent time up your way. *smile*
PM springmom and tell her I sent ya.
Don't worry about it, I stay in trouble with springmom and most everyone else.
*grin*
Welcome to THR again Ma'am
-Steve
Welcome to THR.
To answer your question, yes, some ladies have purchased a firearm and have employed the firearm to stop a threat.
I recommend :American Tactical Shooting Association
http://www.teddytactical.com/
The reasons are simple there is more to staying safe than having an firearm.
Simple fact is, choosing a gun is the easy part.
Another hard cold hard fact is, some ladies do not want another lady to assist them in shooting.
The Hardware , which is gun, holster, knife, baseball bat, cast iron skillet, ...etc. is NOT going to keep you or anyone safe just because you have these physical items.
Software is needed, and the ATSA site is one I recommend always, for anyone, especially ladies.
Software is Mindset, and Skillset.
Without these, it does not matter what kind of gun, or anything else "hardware" (physical) you have, because hardware alone will not keep you safe.
Investigate & Verify are two more huge tools in the toolbox of staying safe.
I am not familiar with your laws and regulations, and being honest many here on THR do not. Heck, I bet your neighbors don't.
I am sorry, still you are going to have to be brutally honest and access you , your environment, and your ADLs (activities of daily living).
This is why I strongly urge you to read the ATSA site, and even better would be contacting them and getting to visit them. Yes, some of their members are in NJ. So contact these wonderful folks and get some quality information for where you are.
Skip Gochenour .
Read any and everything this gentleman writes.
Scroll down to "Talking To The Indians" if you will.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2005/03_StudyDay.htm
Ma'am, there are different Models of criminals.
I really care about you having the Software, including information about various models of criminals you need to be especially concerned about for you, your environment and ADLs.
Permission to be blunt, still it does make a rip to me if one is physically limited and cannot rack a slide, they hate semi-autos, and prefer revolvers so racking a slide means zilch, if the gun is pink and yellow with polka dots, holds umpteen bazillion rounds and the holster matches the earring and pendant or...
Software, not Hardware is what I care about.
I don't know, what your personal situation is, and it is none of my business.
Nor do I know what models of criminals you might be more prone to be targeted by.
i.e. You are a CEO of a business, so that attracts some "professional models" prone to kidnapping.
You are the Mgr of a Coin shop, so the models of criminal might include kidnapping to force you or someone else to open the safe/vault. Other professionals that bypass alarms, and use burn bars to open safe/vaults.
See everybody defaults to "gun" and the only darn model of criminal they think of is some droopy drawer gang type.
Ladies at least have enough sense to know there are some "creeps" and "pervets" out, and the nice looking guy might be a rapist.
Guys are dumb as bricks and think that hot honey hanging all over them, do so because she likes them. She is instead is taking point to take them down with her team.
Ma'am, please do visit the ATSA website.
I am just a dumb southern boy.
springmom is a nice Southern Belle member here at THR, and bless her heart, she married a damn Yankee that spent time up your way. *smile*
PM springmom and tell her I sent ya.
Don't worry about it, I stay in trouble with springmom and most everyone else.
*grin*
Welcome to THR again Ma'am
-Steve
I want to Thank All..
Of you for your advice and the Awesome welcome you have given me.. It looks like if I'm going to do this I have alot to go thru since I live in NJ.. Not to sound silly or dumb but I had NO idea it would be so hard to obtain a firearm :-( Since I wanted a handgun it seems lie it will be even tougher .. Now I need to rethink my options.. Thanks again everyone
Of you for your advice and the Awesome welcome you have given me.. It looks like if I'm going to do this I have alot to go thru since I live in NJ.. Not to sound silly or dumb but I had NO idea it would be so hard to obtain a firearm :-( Since I wanted a handgun it seems lie it will be even tougher .. Now I need to rethink my options.. Thanks again everyone
Lots of good advice had been given, hopefully you will find some local help to sort thru the options and actually get to shoot some guns you are considering.
I travel on the PA turnpike a lot and get off for gas at the last exit in PA (off 276, just before the bridge to NJ) - there is a pretty large gun range across the street. I believe this place would be "Ready-Aim Fire". It appears they do rent guns with a nice selection of automatics and a few .357 revolvers.
http://www.rafire.com/raf/index.htm
Google also yielded these folks are in Bensalem and offer some basic courses, that sounds right up your alley.
http://www.pistolpeople.com/site/a002_mainframes.htm
Maybe some PA/NJ folks can chime in as to a good place or their experiences at either of the two above.
Don't give up. I hadn't purchased a handgun in 25 years, living in Maryland and was surprised at the hassles compared to other states. Admittedly, MD isn't quite as bad as MD (I'm sure our good Governor is working on that). Eventually with help from this site and a MD forum, I was able to chose the .357 revolver that fit my needs and budget. My wife was a little skeptical about getting a larger caliber revolver, but has enjoyed shooting our new gun and we go to the range together (we also have a .22 auto).
Good luck and keep us posted.
I travel on the PA turnpike a lot and get off for gas at the last exit in PA (off 276, just before the bridge to NJ) - there is a pretty large gun range across the street. I believe this place would be "Ready-Aim Fire". It appears they do rent guns with a nice selection of automatics and a few .357 revolvers.
http://www.rafire.com/raf/index.htm
Google also yielded these folks are in Bensalem and offer some basic courses, that sounds right up your alley.
http://www.pistolpeople.com/site/a002_mainframes.htm
Maybe some PA/NJ folks can chime in as to a good place or their experiences at either of the two above.
Don't give up. I hadn't purchased a handgun in 25 years, living in Maryland and was surprised at the hassles compared to other states. Admittedly, MD isn't quite as bad as MD (I'm sure our good Governor is working on that). Eventually with help from this site and a MD forum, I was able to chose the .357 revolver that fit my needs and budget. My wife was a little skeptical about getting a larger caliber revolver, but has enjoyed shooting our new gun and we go to the range together (we also have a .22 auto).
Good luck and keep us posted.
sm
member
It is I that thanks you ma'am.
Oh, just for general information, I really like homemade chocolate chip cookies.
Yes, it is a little known fact, the baking of homemade chocolate chip cookies makes ladies better shooters.
Really!
[Guys shut up, can't you see I am working this side of the sidewalk?]
*dumb-southern boy-look*
Oh, just for general information, I really like homemade chocolate chip cookies.
Yes, it is a little known fact, the baking of homemade chocolate chip cookies makes ladies better shooters.
Really!
[Guys shut up, can't you see I am working this side of the sidewalk?]
*dumb-southern boy-look*
Her's another good site on self-defense:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/
covers situational awareness, criminal mindset, etc.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/
covers situational awareness, criminal mindset, etc.
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