Shooting Revolvers -- Some Advice Sought

[Thomas Traddles]

I read a post by Deaf Smith some days ago (I now don't recall just where it is) where he mentioned that shooters who have "too much trigger finger" tend to shoot left and adjust their sights to the right in order to compensate for poor trigger control. Well, that is me! I went to look at my Ruger Blackhawks, and sure enough, my rear sights were set almost as far right as I could get them. I still shoot left.

Today, I readjusted them back to center, headed to the range to "sight them in" and found that even zeroed in the center I still like the left side of the target. So, for example, shooting a silhouette target at 30ft, I found that if I aim at the right ear of the target, I can hit plumb center. But if I aim plumb center, I hit somewhere between the left ear and plumb center. The good news is that the groups are pretty uniform. The bad news is that I have poor trigger control and would like to correct that. I want to shoot correctly. The trouble is that I do not know what "too much trigger finger" means and would like someone, perhaps Deaf himself, to give me some idea about what I am doing wrong. I would appreciate the help.

 

[chaim]

Where do you position your finger on the trigger? Try it on your finger pad with the trigger about halfway between the tip of your finger and the first knuckle.

 

[oneounceload]

See if this chart might offer some insight:

http://is-lan.com/challenge/images/Pistol-Correction.pdf

 

[Thomas Traddles]

oneounceload, the chart is helpful in telling me I have too little trigger finger. I don't know what that means, though. Chaim, I will have to give that a try next time I'm out. Generally, I shoot with the trigger almost touching the first joint of the index finger. I'd heard that using the pad on the finger was more a technique for semi-auto shooters than for revolvers. But what do I know?

 

[J-Bar]

How heavy is your trigger pull? I don't recommend a hair trigger but fighting trigger pulls above 4 pounds can add to the problem.

Can you dry fire your revolver with a coin balanced on the front sight? It's good practice.

Are you following through after the shot... Watching the front sight settle back onto the target?

Sometimes it IS the sights. Where does the gun print when someone else shoots it?

 

[Thomas Traddles]

J-Bar,

I don't know how heavy the trigger pull is measurement wise. I don't feel it to be terribly heavy. I dry fire both a lot and they feel smooth to me. My follow through, now that you mention it, is non-existent. I'm usually reaching for the hammer to cock the gun on recoil.

I've not had a chance to have others shoot the gun. I will have to see how my son shoots it. he has better eyesight than I and it may be that I am not seeing the sight picture clearly.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I read a post by Deaf Smith some days ago (I now don't recall just where it is) where he mentioned that shooters who have "too much trigger finger" tend to shoot left and adjust their sights to the right in order to compensate for poor trigger control. Well, that is me! I went to look at my Ruger Blackhawks, and sure enough, my rear sights were set almost as far right as I could get them. I still shoot left.

Today, I readjusted them back to center, headed to the range to "sight them in" and found that even zeroed in the center I still like the left side of the target. So, for example, shooting a silhouette target at 30ft, I found that if I aim at the right ear of the target, I can hit plumb center. But if I aim plumb center, I hit somewhere between the left ear and plumb center. The good news is that the groups are pretty uniform. The bad news is that I have poor trigger control and would like to correct that. I want to shoot correctly. The trouble is that I do not know what "too much trigger finger" means and would like someone, perhaps Deaf himself, to give me some idea about what I am doing wrong. I would appreciate the help.

According to what I have read, your shots hitting left would only be due to too much trigger finger if you are shooting left-handed, if you are shooting right-handed and your shots are hitting left it would mean too little finger on the trigger.

"Too much" or "too little" refers to which spot on your finger is in contact with the trigger, "too little" meaning too far toward the tip, "too much" meaning too far toward the hand.

 

[old lady new shooter]

oneounceload, the chart is helpful in telling me I have too little trigger finger. I don't know what that means, though. Chaim, I will have to give that a try next time I'm out. Generally, I shoot with the trigger almost touching the first joint of the index finger. I'd heard that using the pad on the finger was more a technique for semi-auto shooters than for revolvers. But what do I know?

The advice to use the pad for semi-autos and the first crease for revolvers assumes a DA revolver, because a DA trigger is so heavy.

 

[Thomas Traddles]

OLNS, thanks for the clarification of those terms.

 

[MrBorland]

Too little finger tend to push shots left for a right-handed shooter.

The good news is that the groups are pretty uniform. The bad news is that I have poor trigger control and would like to correct that.

Poor trigger control doesn't jive with good groups. What size groupings (at what range) are typical for you? Have you concluded you've got poor trigger control simply because your shots push left? Could be some other explanation. Are you cross-dominant?

Having others shoot your gun is a good suggestion, but do you have the same issue with other guns as well?

 

[Drail]

Listen to McBorland. He's been around the range with revolvers a time or two.

 

[Thomas Traddles]

MrBorland, when I have shot semi-autos from 22 to 45 acp, I have similar results, that is, the shots consistently hit to the left of the poa. But these were rentals, and I did not shoot them more than a few times. I don't own any semis, and at the time thought that it was just lack of familiarity with the guns that caused these results.

When I shoot, I typically have the target at 10-15 yards. 25% of the time I can get 2" groups consistently. The other 75% I have patterns in which 8 of 10 shots tend leftward. As far as I know, I am right eye dominant.

 

[MrBorland]

Making meaningful suggestions is difficult without seeing you shoot, but some suggestions...

You might be pushing the gun to the left regardless of your trigger finger placement. Your trigger finger might be doing it, or your stance as well. Try adjusting your finger placement, of course, but also try shooting off a solid rest to see if that brings the POI back to the right.

As far as stance, I'm not a fan of the push-pull Weaver-type stance. An uneven push/pull can certainly throw your shots. If that's how you've been shooting, try squaring up to the target without the push/pull grip. This modern isosceles stance & grip is much more neutral. Or try shooting 1-handed in a bullseye/duelist stance simply to see if your groups come back to the right. If either these alternate stances shift the POI back to the right, it suggests you've been pushing more than pulling.

If shooting off a solid rest or using the alternate stances/grips doesn't affect the POI, you might be flat-out flinching, or you may be seeing the sight picture unevenly. Use your Google fu to read up on how to check your eye dominance. If you shoot right-handed, you might try covering your left eye when you shoot.

Lastly, do some quality dry fire, with the emphasis on watching the front sight when the "shot" breaks. The coin-on-the-barrel drill is a decent remedial trigger control drill as well. I'd recommend doing this drill separately, though, since you really need to pay close attention to the front sight (rather than the coin) when you need to be paying attention to the front sight (that applies to "real" shooting as well ).

 

[Thomas Traddles]

Thank you, MrBorland. I appreciate the comments. I have been using the isosceles stance rather than the modified Weaver. I will continue to dry fire and pay more attention to what is happening when I am shooting. Given my old fart eyes, I would not be surprised that my sight picture is askew, but I am not going to rule out the possibility of pushing the gun when I am shooting.

 

[robhof]

robhof

Get a cheap laser bore sighter and use it for dry firing and watch where the dot goes as you shoot. I've got lasers on my SD guns and they are great for seeing what you are doing wrong. Many put down the lasers, but I've used mine enough that I've got muscle memory with those guns and can point shoot very accurate out to 10yds, average SD situations!

 

[MikeJackmin]

On advantage of shooting a revolver is that it makes the 'blind dummy drill' really easy. Load four empty cases and two live rounds, give the cylander a gentle spin while you look away, stop the spin, and close the action. Now you've got four clicks and two random bangs.

One of two things will usually happen - either you'll see the gun move when you encounter a click, or you'll shoot to point of aim when you encounter a bang. If that's the case, you're anticipating the recoil, which is a very common issue and one that I've been periodically wrestling with for about thirty years or so.

A somewhat less likely but possible outcome is that the clicks look great and the bangs are still going left. Then it might be the gun, or it might have to do with how the actual recoil (rather then the anticipation of recoil) is interacting with your grip or your stance.

 

[9mmepiphany]

On advantage of shooting a revolver is that it makes the 'blind dummy drill' really easy

I think you mean Ball-and-Dummy...referring to loading Ball rounds and Dummy rounds in random order

That is a good drill to demonstrate to a the shooter that they are flinching.

OP - Fading eye sight usually won't account for changing group size from 2" to 10". That kind of divergence is usually a attributable to trigger control.

Having said that, the first step should be to confirm your dominate eye and also to have someone else shoot your gun to check POI.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Most shooters tend to place their trigger finger so the trigger contacts the finger at the crease under the first knuckle. Although that is the most natural way to pull the trigger, it is problematic.

The only thing you can do with your finger is to curl it or uncurl it. You simply cannot do anything else. Curling the trigger finger with the trigger at the crease tends to push the firearm to the left for a righty and the right for a lefty. That is what is meant by 'too much finger on the trigger'.

By placing the trigger finger so the pad under the fingernail rests on the trigger we can come as close as possible to pulling the trigger straight back without disturbing the alignment of the firearm.

 

[raubvogel]

I have to say on my P64 I get better results if I have the trigger at the crease under the first knuckle. I tried the pad and it just seem to be a bit of a fight.

Could be related to its 18lb trigger pull. Maybe not.

 

[Water-Man]

Forget the 'finger placement' chart. What's good for one person is not necessaraily good for another.

Guns are different and hand sizes are different. You have to experiment to determine what's right for you.

Try dry firing and pay attention to how the front sight moves as you squeeze the trigger. Adjust the position of your trigger finger accordingly until you're pulling straight back without moving the front sight. Do this with each different gun.

Practice, practice and practice until you achieve some consistency.

 

[HKGuns]

How is your grip? Your strong hand should be a relaxed grip and your weak hand should wrap tightly around it.

When I shoot like that, it is me using too tight a strong hand grip, which creates tension on my trigger finger and subsequent pull.

Practice practice practice.

 

[murf]

tt,

pictures would help here: one from each side showing your grip. the one-handed shooting idea will eliminate your left hand as a culprit. describing your shot process to us will help us understand what you are doing.

i'm putting my money on "fighting recoil" as the problem here!

murf

 

[chaim]

I'd heard that using the pad on the finger was more a technique for semi-auto shooters than for revolvers. But what do I know?

Haha, I think you are right. I haven't taken a training class in about 3 years, and when I last did, I used an auto. Also, my autos have seen much more range time than my revolvers of late, so...

The advice to use the pad for semi-autos and the first crease for revolvers assumes a DA revolver, because a DA trigger is so heavy.

At least one poster agrees I was wrong, and that does sound familiar...

Most shooters tend to place their trigger finger so the trigger contacts the finger at the crease under the first knuckle. Although that is the most natural way to pull the trigger, it is problematic.

The only thing you can do with your finger is to curl it or uncurl it. You simply cannot do anything else. Curling the trigger finger with the trigger at the crease tends to push the firearm to the left for a righty and the right for a lefty. That is what is meant by 'too much finger on the trigger'.

By placing the trigger finger so the pad under the fingernail rests on the trigger we can come as close as possible to pulling the trigger straight back without disturbing the alignment of the firearm.

Forget the 'finger placement' chart. What's good for one person is not necessaraily good for another.

Argh, but no consensus. Maybe try some trial and error with your finger in different positions on the trigger to see if that helps?


I actually took the time to do a websearch and check about half a dozen of the hits...

It seems that most call for pad of the finger for autos and SA, distal joint (joint under the first knuckle) for a heavy DA pull (such as on a DA revolver). However, it seems that not everyone agrees.

I also found this visual:

https://images.search.yahoo.com/ima...q&sigt=12agjpgdq&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004

But then I came across something from Jerry Miculek, pretty much the expert on shooting revolvers. While it wasn't on the ideal trigger position for accuracy, it was a mini-article on trigger control and one of his suggestions was to "put your finger further than you normally would" (with the photos showing him using basically the middle of his finger) to use it as a trigger stop, so what does anyone know? Again, I guess just experiment and use what works best for you.

http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK4/miculek4.html

 

[stu1ritter]

I would strongly suggest reading the entire Army ADvanced Marksmanship manual located here if you have any questions about grip, stance, trigger finger position or control, or anything else about shooting a handgun. This is the info right from the horses mouth. No filtering. Read all the chapters.
http://tinyurl.com/ozrlky2

Stu

 

[46Slick]

I have the same problem, shooting left and sometimes also low. Since my index finger is around 3/8" too short I have found that a firm grip with both hands and pulling straight back helps greatly.