shotgun vs rifle for home defense

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A shotgun can bring a lot more power to bare. When one's objective is to stop a threat immediately the superior power of a shotgun is note worthy.
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Is there ANY other reason to use deadly force in your home? If your goal is NOT to do that, why are you deploying a gun?
 
What is your realistic home defense situation. For most people, particlulary in urban areas, is that if you have an intruder it will be a single person or two people, lightly armed, poorly trained, robbers. You'll likely barricade yourself in a room and end the encounter quickly. If you have to shoot, it will be close distance (within 20 feet) with few shots fired. Prolonged gunfights, taking the fight out to the streets for a long range rooftop shot, reloads, etc. are just really unlikely given typical home defense scenarios.

What are the prime advantages of the AR in 5.56? 1) Capacity and 2) Range/accuracy.

Disadvantages of the AR/M4? 1) $800+ and 2) requires significant training to clear malfunctions and fire accurately

What are the advantages of a home defense 12 gauge? 1) Cost under $300 and 2) variety of ammo and 3) knock down power and 4) reliability.

Disadvantages of the 12 ga? 5-7 shells (which should be adequate).

The AR/M4 is great if you are clearing houses, moving from inside to outside, with a team of others similarly armed and up against multiple armed targets.

I've fired many AR/M4s, and own a couple. I've had a lot of failures to feed, eject, etc. I've NEVER had a failure with a pump shotgun. No matter what your weapn, if it fails you are in real trouble.

The shotgun has so much more to offer for home defense that it's a no-brainer for me.

Edited to add: However, my go-to weapon is a handgun. It's more maneuverable and within easy reach, and more than adequate for home defense.
 
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I keep a Makarov in a spare holster velcroed to bedpost near nitelite, a SXS 12 ga 'Coach' leaned in near corner left bbl hi-brass #4 buck right bbl hi-brass #6 and in case I have to go outside (I live about 150 yds off pavement) my Marlin Camp .45 with 10 shot mag loaded with +P 185gr jhp hangs on wall hook.
although over penetration isn't much of a concern for me I'd still hate to have hi-power rifle slugs zipping off my property into who knows where.
 
Just remember there are two sides to every story...9/12 pellets also means 9/12 pellets flying around and 9/12 increases in collateral damage. Have you considered an AR and varmit rounds? Maybe a pistol caliber rifle?
 
It would seem to me that the shotgun would be the better choice for the average person. They are easy to aim, cheap, simple to use, and extremely reliable in most cases which is a must for a HD gun. They have also more stopping power per shot than any other small arm a person is likely to use, for this purpose. However if a person is bothered a great deal by the recoil .223 may be a better option. They are also more socialy acceptable to most people to use for HD, which is important if you land in court. They offer alot of firepower in an easy to use cheap and simple package, in other words it is a weapon for the responsible masses.
 
Coach gun for me

I keep a loaded 12 ga coach gun loaded with buckshot near my bed at night , with a 38 caliber revolver near at hand for backup or in the waist band. The shotgun is the decisive weapon of choice for the home.
 
If a shotgun is too much to handle, even with reduced loads, you might want to think about a lever-action carbine in 357 or 44 - much easier to shoot than a handgun, not quite as loud as an AR, nor as expensive - those pistol calibers in a rifle length barrel get improved performance.....a carbine does NOT have to automatically mean an AR - even a nice M-1 would be very handy........just an idea
 
So you chose a platform and ammo based solely on what happened to the projectiles that miss the target, rather than evaulating the terminal ballistics of the projectiles that hit?

I do not understand this.
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No this is not what we did, it is what we found after shooting some different loads of each through the mock walls. It doesn't matter what we found anyway since it was the higher ups that made the decision not to go with patrol rifle and stick with the 870s even though the money was coming from a homeland security grant. If you seen our duty ammo for our shotguns you would realize that terminal ballistics do not matter to the ones who make the decision, only the cost of ammo matters - the cheaper the better. Welcome to working for the state.
 
If a shotgun is too much to handle, even with reduced loads, you might want to think about a lever-action carbine in 357 or 44 - much easier to shoot than a handgun, not quite as loud as an AR, nor as expensive - those pistol calibers in a rifle length barrel get improved performance.....a carbine does NOT have to automatically mean an AR - even a nice M-1 would be very handy........just an idea
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The pistol cartridge lever action rifles are a very good idea. I have a Marlin 1894C in .357 that does predator control along with my 870. I'm in a rural area and am less worried about wall penetration but the lever action is being used more and more. The .357 magnum is no slouch from an 18-1/2" barrel and the .38 Special is surprisingly quiet and is very effective.
 
So you chose a platform and ammo based solely on what happened to the projectiles that miss the target, rather than evaulating the terminal ballistics of the projectiles that hit?
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First, I would point out that a careful reading of his post does not indicate that he is choosing SOLELY based on that. That was an unfounded inference that you read into it. His post indicates he considered that issue, not that he considered it in a vacuum or found it to be dispositive.

This should not be the only factor but it is not unreasonable to use it as one factor. If I lived in a town house or an apartment I wouldn't think it wise to use a .458 Socom for HD not withstanding the devastating terminal ballistics of projectiles that hit. Anything that can be counted on to go into a bad guy with reasonable expectations of reaching vitals will probably punch right through a thin wall. There is a balance to be struck between wont penetrate drywall and hits like Zeus' lighting. For lots of people it might well make sense not to use the rounds that have the most effective terminal ballistics (a 12 gauge slug, a .458 300-600 grain bullet, etc). It is silly to think people do not or should not consider whats beyond their targets (see 4 rules of gun safety) and evaluate the possibilities of their projectiles getting there.
 
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As stated above, the shotgun will provide the most stopping power. It lacks the round capacity and range that an AR-type rifle has, as well as being heavier. If you are of small stature, wielding something like an 870 can be a little awkward, and can be too heavy/bulky for a spouse/girlfriend, whereas an AR/M4 can be handled easier. I'm just trying to provide the most ambiguous response possible.
 
as far as minimal recoil, what is the lightest shot i can use for HD?
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I would go to the online retailers, and look for (in 12 ga.) 2 3/4" reduced recoil #4 buckshot.
I have a pistol gripped shotgun that I added the Knoxx "Breachers Grip". I could shoot that all day from the hip and no sore wrist.
Don't discount the .410 shotgun either. The pellets are traveling just as fast as a 12 ga. and they are the same size, there are simply fewer of them.
Forget "bird shot" for H/D.

IMO a rifle is too dangerous for the neighbor's safety. For H/D distances (20' max) a shotgun is the way to go.
 
IMO a rifle is too dangerous for the neighbor's safety.
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Why? Over penetration? How do you reconcile that position with the fact that provided the right ammunition is used a 5.56 rifle has been shown to have less over penetration than common buck shot loads?

Don't discount the .410 shotgun either. The pellets are traveling just as fast as a 12 ga. and they are the same size, there are simply fewer of them.
I think that is a valid point that people often dismiss. I have a little .410 that will group 5 rounds of 00 buck very well at HD distances. It holds 15 rounds and is lighter and easier to handle for some people I have shot with than the nearly identical 12 gauge model I also own. It has negligible recoil and allows for very fast followup shots. In terms of HD I do not think it is anything to sneeze at. I keep the 12 gauge handy (all other things being roughly equal I'd just as soon have the extra 4-7 projectiles) but there are people that I believe would be better served by the .410.

As for pistol caliber carbines. I own a few and they certainly could work, but unless price was a deciding factor I would rather have a rifle round.
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When this thread started, my first thought was 'a .223? in a house? is this guy nuts?'. Since then, I've done a little Internet research and I'm starting to warm up to the idea. It looks like a .223 with a light SP bullet is indeed prone to penetrate fewer sheets of drywall than most other pistol, rifle or shotgun rounds.

My AR build is progressing slowly, though (my Del-Ton lower kit finally shipped after a two-month backorder) so it's going to be the 870 for awhile yet, though I think I'm going to go with #1 buckshot instead of the 00 buck it's loaded with right now.
 
like a .223 with a light SP bullet is indeed prone to penetrate fewer sheets of drywall than most other pistol, rifle or shotgun rounds.
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Did you see a source for how many sheets of sheetrock different rounds will penetrate? Usually I see penetration arguments for sheetrock based on penetration results for gelatin. I don't know how correlated sheetrock (at least in seperated 1/2" sections) penetration is to geletan.
 
I don't think that a rifle can really compare to the close quarters, room-to-room capabilities of a tactical shotgun with 00 Buckshot. The spread pattern of 00 Buckshot is akin to 9 rounds of .32 caliber bullets speeding outward at over 1,200 fps. OUCH!

This is my latest project... A Mossberg Tactical 12 gauge (Home Defender). Say hello to my little friend!
mytac500a.jpg
 
It never ceases to amaze me how many reply to these threads with "use the shotgun cause when you go shuck shuck the criminal automatically poops their pants and runs and turns themselves into the police"

If you're relying on a noise to save yourself you really need a plan B
 
Did you see a source for how many sheets of sheetrock different rounds will penetrate?
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Get thee to The Box 'O Truth.....

From http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm :
Lessons learned:
1. Notice that the #4 and #1 Buck penetrated 6 boards. In previous tests, 9mm, .45 ACP, and M-193 out of an AR all penetrated all 12 boards.

So, it seems that these loads do not "over-penetrate" as much as some have led us to believe.

The 00 Buck penetrated 8 boards, but was stopped by the 9th. Still not as much penetration as the pistol or rifle loads.

The slug penetrated all 12 boards.

2. Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about.

You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target.

3. The slugs were "bad" penetrators. By that, I mean that they will penetrate several interior walls. If you have loved ones in your home, consider this as you select your home defense weapon.

4. I "racked" the shotgun several times during the tests, and no bystanders lost control of their bowels.
Conclusion: Racking a shotgun will not make the bad guy faint.

Frankly, I was surprised that the shotgun did not penetrate more than it did. I had been led to believe that they penetrated more than a .223 rifle or a 9mm or .45 ACP. Such was not the case.

Amazing what you can learn by doing a little testing.
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For various reasons, which I wont bother mentioning so as to avoid any flame wars, for "general" HD duty I think the 12 ga. shotgun is superior to almost any rifle.

Still, I would not mind owning an AR-15 one day. But, even then, it would only be used for HD if nothing else were available at that time.
 
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They have also more stopping power per shot than any other small arm a person is likely to use, for this purpose.
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Not true, almost any rifle round, including the poodle shooter 5.56 NATO have much better terminal effectiveness than shot guns. That is why almost all entry teams only use the shotgun for breaching anymore. The carbines are much more effective.

Real life, blows many myths and unsubstantiated opinions all to hell.

Go figure.

Fred
 
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