Some one, in an earlier posting, asked me to “elaborate” on how I could make the statement, while discussing the effectiveness of 5.56 NATO vs. Shotgun slugs on humans: “I know it does. I have witnessed it, multiple times. It's that real life thingy going on”
My “elaboration” to fulfill your request:
10+ years in the Marine Corps 1966-1976, Two tours with the 3rd Marine Division in Vietnam 1967, 68, 69. We/I spent most of my 25 months on or about the DMZ/Laos area fighting primarily the NVA vs. the VC. Except for one operation of about 3 months in length I spent troopin and poopin in the bush in an area known as the “Arizona Territory“ SouthWest of Danang. At that time little did I know I would end up living in Arizona, I was a Florida boy. (that is what marrying a Los Angeles girl caused. Cause I would not live in California. One of the best decisions of my life, and time has only reinforced that choice.) By the way, I forgot to duck a couple times and had a successful career as a bullet stop too.
I was a Drill Instructor in 1971 at MCRD San Diego.
Please tell me how many times I had to have been “over run” and/or gone hand to hand combat, to be qualified to know something/anything about CQB to your standards. I don’t know what your standards are, but my guess is I might be able to qualify on both counts. (by the way, I was one of the “few & Proud” that got to play in what folks these days call MOUT. We didn't usually play that way in those days. I only got to do that one time for about 3 weeks in early 1968. But I think that would give some directly applied experience to this subject too.)
Some of my firefights were eventually called “battle’s” and a couple evolved into “siege’s”. Later I worked for a Sheriffs Dept, (just a side note: Because of my knowledge of fighting weapons I was placed on the weapons selection panel for that dept) and later I worked for the Florida Dept of Corrections (shot on our institutions Pistol team too). Been shooting since the early 1950’s and competing since the late 50’s, and still compete. Started Hunting in the early 60’s. For health reasons, I don’t hunt any more though.
Then I became a Registered Nurse and went on to became a CCRN (Critical Care RN) among many of my Critical care or ICU type assignments included Trauma ICU, Cardiac (Heart) transplant, Surgical, Cardio Vascular, Medical and Cardiac ICU‘s, and my last assignment before medical retirement was in an inner city ER. So I have a smidgen of experience on the damage the different weapons and ammunition do to the human body too. I would always be much more interested in Gun Shot cases than most because of my combat experience, along with the knowledge and enjoyment of the shooting sports. I have been on all sides of this REAL COMBAT shooting, wounding and killing thing.
I Hope that is a full enough “elaboration” of my “credentials” for you. I am sure your “elaboration” is “better” than mine.
AS to the OP’s question, I believe we are quibbling here. I believe, based on my own experience and knowledge, that the carbine/rifle is more effective by a small margin than the shotgun in most cases. And both the shotgun and rifle/carbine’s superiority, with appropriate ammunition, in CQB is vastly superior to ANY HANDGUN’S, regardless of ammunition used in the handgun, even the “good stuff“. (also the shoulder weapon is easier to deploy, intrinsically more accurate in use, and makes a better baseball bat if it comes to that). The smaller, shorter ranges that may be necessary in many smaller dwellings, desperately require the effectiveness on target of either type Shoulder weapon MUCH MORE than inside a bigger house with longer halls and bigger rooms. Yea, it does seem contra indicated. But it isn’t, if you really do understand the problem/situation. The closer the bad guy will be to you when you are able to get fire on him, the more effective your weapon had better be, not less. You will need all the "stopping power" small arms can deliver, that doesn't include handguns, unless you are unlucky or ignorant of the problem/situation.
Either the shotgun or rifle/carbine will do it well, and I would not feel badly served or under gunned with either. I use both in my own home. (Next to my bed are both a shotgun and a carbine set up for Home Defense and ready to roll. My handguns are purely secondary in nature in this defense environment. While up and about I do wear my CCW, of late most often a Springfield Professional, while in the house.) I do believe, the carbine, is the better platform and cartridge on most counts. That’s all. But then my “elaboration” being what it is, you can see I really only have limited experience and knowledge of the subject.
Now I recommend that everyone go get some training (particularly those without combat experience, but we all need and can use it), which is much more important than whether you are going to be using a shotgun or carbine, quality practice a lot, get more training. Do the reconnaissance of your dwelling and neighborhood, keep it currant, learn your dwelling/ground, set up several plans ‘A’, ‘B’, ‘C’ etc.. plan your defenses in depth and layers, harden your dwelling in as many practical way’s as you can. Get the best weapons and ammunition you can afford, as soon as you can, so as to get that training and quality practice with those weapons. (Unfortunately most folks answer to home defense is "I got a gun" period.)
Remember the bad guy(s) get a vote and often a veto on any of your plans or idea’s, whether you like it or not or agree or not. Those SOB's will probably have the unmitigated gall to want to live and not die when you want them to, and may even try to hurt or kill you and your loved ones. Get more quality training, quality practice too not just shooting at the range, maintain your fighting weapons. Include your family in as much of the training, practice, planning, and drills as practical and possible. Don't allow "It will never happen to me/us or here" to set in. Guess which kind of folks it does most happen to, yup, those who don't believe it can happen to them, here, and now.
Understand that there is a very good possibility of you being hurt or possibly killed in this fight. If you expect to be hurt, it will not surprise you when or if you are hurt. (get a trauma kit to add to your first aid kit) That should help keep you from getting shocked or stop fighting if you are wounded or injured. Never forget why and what you are fighting for, never give up. Keep your “eye” on the problem.
Remember being, looking or sounding cool doesn’t count in a REAL gunfight. Trying to prove you were “right” using your weak handgun instead of an effective shoulder weapon(s), training and quality practice with the shoulder weapon(s) will not gain you any points in that real world fight either. There is a good chance that the bad guys may appreciate that you chose a handgun to fight them rather than a shoulder weapon, but otherwise I can’t figure out any other advantage that favors the handgun, except convenience and/or cool factor.
Have a practical intelligent and REAL plan to win, and you will probably win, If you can execute it with all the intensity and energy you can muster. (mindset) If you fail to plan, you may just fail, and in these situations failure should not be an “unplanned” option. Fix it now.
I truly Pray that no one here will ever have to use any of these plans. A REAL gunfight win or lose, will change you and your loved ones in that house for ever.
I no longer fight the NVA to stay alive, now I fight the VA to stay alive.
Go figure.
Fred
