Should A American Citizen With No Disqualifyers Be Able to Board a Train,Bus or Plane With a Gun?

[Atavar]

I would volunteer to take an airline course and undergo a rigorous background check to be able to carry concealed on a plane.
I can see the need to control weapons on flights, but there should be certification to allow it.

 

[wayneinFL]

This is how it should work. Property and Business owners can ask you to leave. A number of states have no enforceable signs. The response of a shopper who was armed to a mass shooter in an Indianapolis area mall which was posted with unenforceable signs is an example.

That would be hard to do with air travel. Almost all the major airports are owned/controlled by the government. It would be almost impossible for different airlines in different markets to control weapons separately.

 

[wayneinFL]

Modern jetliners flight altitude is at around 33,000 to 42,000 feet.

Above 20k, there will be not enough oxygen to sustain us. Sure, masks will drop, but still, I would not want to poke holes at an airplane. Let alone having a shootout while traveling at a speed of over 500mph on broken open windows.

Airplanes aren't 100.00% airtight. They already leak. I don't see a bullet hole or two lowering the pressure enough to necessitate masks.

 

[Necessary_Nutrient]

Airplanes aren't 100.00% airtight. They already leak. I don't see a bullet hole or two lowering the pressure enough to necessitate masks.

Right! Many bullets might be slowed down or even stopped by passengers so those would be a non-factor.

Train pilots to just land the plane no matter what kind of massacre/shootout is going on back in coach.

Totally doable. Airplanes are already too crowded, this brilliant concept would really cut that down by preventing people overly nervous about safety from flying in the first place.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Very intresting, civil, level handed replies. I was relieved when I read the responses early this morning. No one calling for an immediate strait jacket and a fast trip to Bellevue!

But that is the politeness on this forum . I personally would have no problem with carrying a gun onto a plane with other passenger's and the crew. Same with busses and trains.

And the poll is about equally divided. Another positive.

This is like polling a list of Biden White House staffers to determine the president's approval rating.

 

[Legionnaire]

Private carriers get to make their own rules. Apart from that, I think I'd be okay allowing concealed carry on trains and busses, but not commercial airplanes. Risk factor is too high. We all know "that guy" at the range whose gun handling makes us uneasy. When he's at the range, I choose not to be. I certainly don't want to fly with him. So I voted "no."

 

[GEM]

Here's a question. You are waiting for your flight with your wife and infant (done that quite a few times). This is halcyon days when Clarence and Alito have managed a decision so that there are NO gun restrictions at all. Waiting to get on the plane are five guys (now you can pick which appearance and behavior makes them look disreputable - no law ID visible). You discern, get a peak that each has a Glock 17 and several mags on their belt. You getting on the plane - now you have a J frame because 5 is enough if you doing your job?

Now what?

Sidebar, you are in your car, going to get out and go into the mall. You see a guy take out a Modern Sporting rifle, dressed in 'tactical' gear and stroll towards the entrance. You going to the food court? You have a J frame because 5 is enough if you are doing your job.

 

[Styx]

Here's a question. You are waiting for your flight with your wife and infant (done that quite a few times). This is halcyon days when Clarence and Alito have managed a decision so that there are NO gun restrictions at all. Waiting to get on the plane are five guys (now you can pick which appearance and behavior makes them look disreputable - no law ID visible). You discern, get a peak that each has a Glock 17 and several mags on their belt. You getting on the plane - now you have a J frame because 5 is enough if you doing your job?

Now what?

Sidebar, you are in your car, going to get out and go into the mall. You see a guy take out a Modern Sporting rifle, dressed in 'tactical' gear and stroll towards the entrance. You going to the food court? You have a J frame because 5 is enough if you are doing your job.

Whether it's 5 in a revolver or 15 rounds in the gun and a reload in the scenarios you just described, you're going to be SOL against 5 armed guys with hundreds of rounds between them. Versus one guy with an AR, your chances are better, but not great unless you too have simular fire power.

Not sure who your question was directed at, but I simply wouldn't get on the plane or go into the mall no matter what firearm and how many rounds I had with me.

 

[GEM]

Not directed at anyone, just a hypothetical on why I regard the plane as a special case. In the mall, I can flee or hide. Maybe all the seats should be ejection capable so we can bug out over the Atlantic.

Silly post on my part, just trying to show that the plane is unique. Just as the MRI room is unique. I don't see folks arguing that the Constitution gives them the right to have the magnets fire their gun for them. I had an MRI once and carefully removed all metal. The tech asked me again and I realized my slip on moccasin shoes had steel toes! Oops, we would have eaten them.

 

[Styx]

Not directed at anyone, just a hypothetical on why I regard the plane as a special case. In the mall, I can flee or hide. Maybe all the seats should be ejection capable so we can bug out over the Atlantic.

Silly post on my part, just trying to show that the plane is unique. Just as the MRI room is unique. I don't see folks arguing that the Constitution gives them the right to have the magnets fire their gun for them. I had an MRI once and carefully removed all metal. The tech asked me again and I realized my slip on moccasin shoes had steel toes! Oops, we would have eaten them.

I agree and as I pointed out, if there is a gunfire that breaks out and people are injured, how do do they get medical treatment outside of simply first aid? How do we get people to the hospital or treatment?

The poll might look one way on a firearm forum, but I doubt such a measure would even it 2% of the votes if taken nationwide.

 

[wayneinFL]

Right! Many bullets might be slowed down or even stopped by passengers so those would be a non-factor.

Train pilots to just land the plane no matter what kind of massacre/shootout is going on back in coach.

Totally doable. Airplanes are already too crowded, this brilliant concept would really cut that down by preventing people overly nervous about safety from flying in the first place.

Sheesh.

Where did I advocate carrying on the plane? All I said was the doomsday hysteria around planes exploding from a bullet hole is unfounded. This was debunked long before they allowed cops, air marshals, and pilots to carry on planes.

 

[Necessary_Nutrient]

Sheesh.

Where did I advocate carrying on the plane? All I said was the doomsday hysteria around planes exploding from a bullet hole is unfounded. This was debunked long before they allowed cops, air marshals, and pilots to carry on planes.

Ok, cool, then! Consider my message to be intended for others with the "massacres aboard a plane aren't any worse than regular ones" crowd.

 

[jamesjames]

… an American… (there, fixed it for you)

As you can see, perfection is the enemy of the good, or at least can be very annoying. And in a perfect, simple world that revolves around me, I and people as perfect as me should be able to carry anywhere.

however, “in order to create a more perfect Union…” we submit to rules that make it more likely that we all will get home at the end of the day in one piece.

2A tries to have it both ways: claim an individual right to keep bear arms, and preface the proclamation with the importance of a well-regulated militia.

Todays society is more focused on every well-regulated plane ride getting to their destinations without incident. Safety depends on the lowest common denominator to successfully self-regulate and not indulge a lack of good judgement or impulse control. It’s a special situation that calls for cooperation and subordination of ego.

Air travel strives for a (safety) perfection in its operations. It’s a place where an armed public must submit to the regulatory necessities of safe operations for the good of everyone.

 

[General Geoff]

Safety depends on the lowest common denominator to successfully self-regulate and not indulge a lack of good judgement or impulse control. It’s a special situation that calls for cooperation and subordination of ego.

How is this any different than any other situation involving humans?

 

[General Geoff]

I agree and as I pointed out, if there is a gunfire that breaks out and people are injured, how do do they get medical treatment outside of simply first aid? How do we get people to the hospital or treatment?

Should guns be banned outside a 30 mile radius of any hospital?

 

[General Geoff]

Here's a question. You are waiting for your flight with your wife and infant (done that quite a few times). This is halcyon days when Clarence and Alito have managed a decision so that there are NO gun restrictions at all. Waiting to get on the plane are five guys (now you can pick which appearance and behavior makes them look disreputable - no law ID visible). You discern, get a peak that each has a Glock 17 and several mags on their belt. You getting on the plane - now you have a J frame because 5 is enough if you doing your job?

If I have a serious concern about my safety before boarding any mode of transportation, it is my right to refuse to board, stay put, and let them go without me. Guns involved or not.

 

[Styx]

Should guns be banned outside a 30 mile radius of any hospital?

Not sure how we got from gun being banned on planes to whether they should be banned within a 30 mile radius of any hospital, but the answer to your question is not.

 

[Necessary_Nutrient]

How is this any different than any other situation involving humans?

It's in the air. It's inside of a vulnerable aluminum tube. If vital systems are disrupted, this tube crashes at hundreds of miles per hour. It's administered by a special group called the FAA. If access is achieved to the cockpit, it's trivially easy to kill every one inside the tube. Any fire not managed immediately will generally result in the death of anyone inside the tube. There are more.

Not sure what is the matter with people who can't successfully interpret an amendment or make a serious argument without ignoring the obvious.

 

[General Geoff]

Not sure how we got from gun being banned on planes to whether they should be banned within a 30 mile radius of any hospital, but the answer to your question is not.

Same way that we got to talking about practical difficulties in obtaining hospital treatment for injured people.

An irrelevent stretch.

 

[General Geoff]

It's in the air. It's inside of a vulnerable aluminum tube. If vital systems are disrupted, this tube crashes at hundreds of miles per hour. It's administered by a special group called the FAA. If access is achieved to the cockpit, it's trivially easy to kill every one inside the tube. Any fire not managed immediately will generally result in the death of anyone inside the tube. There are more.

I get that powered flight is a particularly vulnerable way to travel in terms of technological dependence for survival. If it was impossible to safely carry (and if necessary, deploy) a firearm aboard a commercial flight, then air marshals wouldn't be allowed to do so either. Yet here we are. The most obvious solution is to make the air marshal qualification course accessible to anyone who wants to carry aboard commercial flights. Held to the same standards, LE affiliated or not.

Not sure what is the matter with people who can't successfully interpret an amendment or make a serious argument without ignoring the obvious.

SCOTUS itself can't consistently maintain an interpretation on various Constitutional Amendments, how the hell are mere laypersons supposed to?

 

[Robert]

This has gone completely off the rails.