SKS Question...Has anyone ever heard this or does it make sense?

[Deer_Freak]

The SKS has enough clearance in all of the moving parts that a tiny bend would not interfere with the function of the rifle.

 

[Flatland river]

The M1 Garand also has a gas tube and piston. I installed a custom cap that threads into the front of the Garands gas tube and gained about 1moa. Search "accurizing the Garand", or similar, and I believe you'll soon change your view as to the usefulness of tuning a tube and piston.
I came here in the search for improvements in the accuracy of my new to me Ishvesk. Had to join and reply just to counter the negative pile on effect the original poster was subjected to. The old guy who said the SKS tube and piston needed redesign is absolutely correct

 

[Panzerschwein]

OP, I'd steer clear. If you want to ring more accuracy from your SKS, get you some Tech sights.

 

[Swampman]

Originally posted by: Flatland river
The old guy who said the SKS tube and piston needed redesign is absolutely correct

Simonov wasn't designing a target rifle, he was designing a rifle that would operate when it was filthy, over or under lubed and with temperatures of 50 below zero. The SKS is WAY overgased, but they did that for a reason, they wanted a weapon with maximum reliability, reasonable weight and acceptable accuracy.

There's no doubt that SKS accuracy can be Improved, a heavier barrel, smaller gas port, stiffer gas tube/piston and maybe even a direct impingement gas system would probably all help accuracy to some degree.

Whether that would make the SKS "better" is open to individual interpretation. If maximum accuracy is your only goal, then yes, the weapon would be "better". It takes all kinds of people to make the world go round and some folks seem to prefer having lipstick on their pigs.

It's my opinion that anyone wanting a highly accurate rifle would do well by looking at other designs. Aside from improved sighting equipment, the time and money spent accurizing an SKS would probably do more good if spent on higher quality ammunition and practice.

Even a Mann Accuracy Device can only do so much with a diet of Wolf and Tula ammo.

Maybe Sergei Gavrilovich Simonov wasn't a John Moses Browning, but I'd be willing to bet that he was a lot better firearms designer than anyone currently working for "Rifle Tech".

 

[Panzerschwein]

Maybe Sergei Gavrilovich Simonov wasn't a John Moses Browning, but I'd be willing to bet that he was a lot better firearms designer than anyone currently working for "Rifle Tech".

BUUURRRNNN!!! But probably very true.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

SKS's are 3-4 MOA rifles, and given that they usually shoot 2-3 MOA Wolf Ammo, I don't see any reason to fine-tune the rifles for accuracy. And no, I'm not paying a buck per round to feed my $300 plinker the good brass stuff.

 

[Swampman]

Originally posted by" Mosin Bubba
SKS's are 3-4 MOA rifles, and given that they usually shoot 2-3 MOA Wolf Ammo, I don't see any reason to fine-tune the rifles for accuracy. And no, I'm not paying a buck per round to feed my $300 plinker the good brass stuff.

How do you know the rifles true accuracy potential if you've never done anything to really test it?

FYI, the "good brass stuff" from Winchester, Remington and Federal isn't any more accurate than Wolf 8M3, 124 grain HP's and sometimes it's considerably worse.

Yugo M67 surplus is generally pretty good, going into about an inch and a half from both my 59/66's.

Some 1984 surplus Lapua shot just over an inch, but bullets pulled from it weighed about 130 grains and were about 100 fps slower than the Yugo stuff.

The only "accurizing" I've done to my rifles was installing Choate mounts and cheap scopes, a little trigger polishing and 15 minute bedding jobs done with "Tootsie Roll" type marine epoxy sticks using Turtle Wax as a release agent.

I also spent quite a few hours getting the barrels really clean, but aside from the scope mounts and an $8.00 tube of epoxy, all I spent was time.

So there's no lipstick on my "pigs", just a touch of mascara...

 

[bainter1212]

I have two Chinese SKSs. They both have Kivaari trigger jobs and Tech Sights. One of them will nail the palm of your hand at 100 yds and the other will group like a watermelon at the same distance. I don't know what the difference is, they are both early, high quality rifles. Both have excellent bores.

My theory is that stock fit makes a big difference. The more accurate rifle fits very very tightly in it's stock. The other not near as tight, but still no discernible wiggle.
I am pondering shimming the looser one to make it fit tighter and see if it makes any difference.
I am betting that the more accurate gun would shoot lights out with good ammo. I shoot only Tula and Wolf so far.

I like the "over gassed" nature of the SKS. Makes for little to no malfunctions.

 

[Autopistola]

Rifle tech gets a lot of guff on sksboards for the "600% increase in accuracy" claims. I bet there's a slight advantage to their system, but doubt if it's worth the price.

What we really need is an ultimak rail for the SKS.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

I have two Chinese SKSs. They both have Kivaari trigger jobs and Tech Sights. One of them will nail the palm of your hand at 100 yds and the other will group like a watermelon at the same distance. I don't know what the difference is, they are both early, high quality rifles. Both have excellent bores.

My theory is that stock fit makes a big difference. The more accurate rifle fits very very tightly in it's stock. The other not near as tight, but still no discernible wiggle.
I am pondering shimming the looser one to make it fit tighter and see if it makes any difference.
I am betting that the more accurate gun would shoot lights out with good ammo. I shoot only Tula and Wolf so far.

I like the "over gassed" nature of the SKS. Makes for little to no malfunctions.

I'd love to know what you find out about the stock on your less accurate SKS, that is, does a looser fitting stock have a significant affect on accuracy? I have an aftermarket black synthetic stock and I'm not so sure this is a good thing. It's a beefy stock, but I wonder if the rifle will be more accurate with a woodstock, especially a tight fitting woodstock.

 

[krupparms]

The SKS has alot of after market accessories made for it. Most is junk! The SKS can be made to be slightly more accurate. But it has done a fine job the way it was built! If it needed to be upgraded it would not have been built in the numbers that have been made! It would not be one of the best surplus rifles to choose! Alot of fokes have found it to be just fine the way it is! It's still used in combat in it's original configuration! That speaks to how well it is built!

 

[ID-shooting]

I never understood the guys that want to take rifle designed for one purpose and alter them for another. SKS is perfect for it's intended use. Still in service 70 some years later in a few places with a nasty environment. One sits in my mil-gun safe just for that reason.

If a guy wants a sharpshooting rifle, go buy any of the budget new-production bolt guns. If wanting to 500 yard target shoot, there are plenty of AR's that will do that.

I suppose it a challenge that attracts them, but the bubba work done to these fine soldier guns can sometimes make a dude cry.

I suppose I should thank them though, for every one they cut up, loose parts to, and make into a POS, mine, all original will just go up in value when they start to run thin.

 

[Cee Zee]

There are problems with the gas tube on Yugo rifles that have had the grenade launcher removed but they are related to feeding issues. All rifles flex when you shoot them. The only ones that might have their accuracy affected by this are sub-sonic .22 target rifles. People use barrel tuners to counter the effects of barrel whip on those rifles. But the truth is you would improve your accuracy far more just by learning to control your brain when you're shooting for accuracy. The best shooters talk about that being the most important part of shooting. You have to believe you can do it before you can do it. On an SKS learning to work the trigger well is probably just as big though. Their triggers were not set to correct specs coming out of the factory or at least the vast majority aren't.

 

[Swampman]

Originally posted by: Cee Zee
All rifles flex when you shoot them. The only ones that might have their accuracy affected by this are sub-sonic .22 target rifles.

Why would that be?
My guess is that you're assuming the low velocity does it?

There's very little excess energy available in a standard velocity .22 Long Rifle cartridge to flex anything, and most .22 target rifles have barrels that make a crowbar look anorexic.

Also they tend to have pretty good accuracy.
Unless I'm mistaken, that's why they're called target rifles.

And why would it affect a precision built, 14 pound Winchester Model 52D more than a five pound Squares Bingham semi auto made out of old Hamm's beer cans?

I'm calling BS on this one.

 

[HJ857]

Rifletech has been around for a long time and they do make some pretty outlandish statements. I've purchased a few items from them and seen a few others.

Right off the gas tube is not stamped USA made as I recall, which made me shy away from it since other tubes are stamped and for less money. I don't ever recall hearing that it would increase accuracy, though the one I saw did seem very stout, so there could be an insignificant amount of truth to it.

Their trigger group is outstanding, but proved to be not as durable as it should have been. Some years later I had a trigger modded by Kivaari with Murray parts which I think will last a lifetime. But the Rifletech trigger still felt better.

Contrary to the common belief that receiver cover optic mounts are crap, the Rifletech version is really good. Really good. It has plates on the side that straddle the receiver and lock down screws on the back. It's not as good as a real rifle like an AR, but for the SKS there's nothing better. Having said all that, the Tech Sight solution is a better option since it gives you an incredibly long sight radius, it works well even with bad eyes.

They included (freebies) a 15 round detachable mag and a muzzle brake that was supposed to increase accuracy a bunch. The mag worked very well but is stupid expensive, I'd never buy one especially since the Tapco 20 had come out. The muzzle brake is some pot metal POS, that I would strongly recommend never purchasing or intalling.

My bottom line is that Rifletech is risky and their prices are simply insanely high. I'm amazed they're still in business.

 

[Speedo66]

You don't see the forums filled with posts about SKS gas tubes self destructing.

Sounds like they have an answer to a question nobody asked. Did they used to sell magic lifetime wax at car shows? How about Ginsu knives?

I prefer to leave my venerable battle tested rifle just the way it came.

 

[Swampman]

It's not as good as a real rifle like an AR,

I can't recall hearing about any NVA and VC soldiers tossing down their AK's and SKS's to pick up M-16's.
Quite a few GI's and Marines got rid of their jam prone M-16's in favor of commie weapons.

So what defines a "real rifle"?
The ability to shoot tiny groups when clean and well lubed?
Or is it the ability to keep running when filthy after extended shooting and a mud bath?
How about bayonet fighting, or the ability to deliver a vicious butt stroke and still function?

I know usability in close quarters hand to hand fighting isn't the "be all, end all" of rifle design, but I do think that a buttstroke should at least be marginally more effective than popping someone with a wiffle bat.

but for the SKS there's nothing better

Try the Choate mount, drill four holes, tap ' em and install with Loktite. 45 bucks and you can disassemble the weapon without removing the scope and with no loss of zero. The only downside is permanently altering the weapon, but I think the trade off is worth it.

 

[Sunray]

The original post is a year old and thinking a new gas tube will fix the crappy trigger, barrel and sights is still BS of the highest order.

 

[HJ857]

Well, I've seen arguments like this from SKS fans for years. I have an SKS and I like it, but it's still a crappy rifle.

If it were such a fine rifle why would the Soviets dump it after only two years service? The fact that it was used in many other Soviet pawn states doesn't make it a good rifle, it just makes it cheap and easy political capital while allowing the Soviets to retain a better infantry rifle for themselves. If you were in some third world country with no money and a weak government but had a chance to upgrade your military's arsenal from a Mosin or Mauser, or worse, to an SKS, it would be a pretty easy decision wouldn't it? Especially if you had no other options as dictated by Moscow.

As far as an "accurate rifle when clean and lubed"? Are you serious? I'd guess that you've read that somewhere rather than relating actual experience.

You like the SKS and I respect that, but it just doesn't cut it in my book. However, I do think it's pretty darn funny that the SKS went from a communist military weapon to an American play toy. That is reason enough to own one.

 

[mugsie]

I don't know. Every SKS I ran across in Nam shot well enough to kill or maim just fine. Me thinks he's blowing smoke up your butt!

 

[theotherwaldo]

Just picked up a $200 Chinese SKS to try out a few ideas. Stocks with different pressure points and bedding techniques, various optics on various mounts, and so on.

One intriguing scope mount that I'm about to try is from Magwedge in Canada. It's a bridge mount that goes from the rear sight bed to the reciever cover pin.

Looks pretty good so far and lines up well with the plastic sporter stock that came with the rifle. That stock, BTW, prevents the use of the standard sights... .

 

[Cee Zee]

I'm calling BS on this one.

So what, is this your assumption on the subject? You really should do your homework before you post your opinions as if they are facts.

From the makers of Lilja barrels you can find this statement on their web site:

"During recoil and while the bullet is still in the barrel, the barrel will whip vertically."

So what is your "opinion" on why the rimfire benchrest world uses barrel tuners while other rifles used in higher caliber competitions don't for the most part? You see I got my information from one of the best rimfire shooters that ever lived. I'm sure he would be amused for "you" to call his words "BS". Well actually this stuff comes mostly from his gunsmith. Yes there are other factors like the lack of being able to custom design loads for your rifle. A tuner can compensate for differences in cartridges that must be bought whole instead of loaded by the individual shooter. And despite what you think a bullet stays in a .22LR barrel longer than it will stay in a higher caliber barrel because it travels much slower. And that gives the barrel more time to affect the accuracy of the bullet. It doesn't take a lot more time to make a difference.

Vibrations need to be isolated from the barrel as much as possible (the same vibrations that cause barrel flex). That's the reason it is very important to have a rifle bedded and have it done well. The stock absorbs more of the vibrations if the bedding is right. And again the reason that is important is that you don't want the barrel to flex and affect the bullet before it leaves the bore.

I don't know where you get your "opinions" but I know where I get mine. They come from people who have consistently produced exceptional shooting accuracy. That world class shooter I mentioned was my mentor for a good while until it became clear my health was going to prohibit me from traveling the rimfire benchrest circuit. That doesn't mean I never learned anything along the way.

So go ahead and "call BS" if it makes you feel better. It makes me feel like I'm young again and back in jr. high school.

 

[Field Tester]

Just a reminder to anyone who is quoting or answering questions from the first page, the OP was written two years ago. It seems a new member decided to rehash an old argument.

 

[ugaarguy]

This thread was started nearly two years ago, and it's been eight months since the OP logged into THR. If someone has actually used a Rifle Tech SKS gas tube feel free to start a new thread and tell us about it.