So where does this fit? ("Knockout Game")

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That final line is why I would still cross the street.

Otherwise what you are saying makes perfect sense and I don't recall anybody saying it quite like that before.
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I could not agree more.
 
From the law side of the house I would say this. With the "knockout game" the intention is to blindside and knock out the victim and then run away. If you prevented the outcome catching them before they hit you, pushing them away, side stepping or whatever thwarting the game and introducing confrontation they may run off without further issues. You are also dealing with teenagers and we all know what the news does to you for shooting an unarmed teenager. Shooting someone for punching you is always going to be an up-hill battle in court.

Now my idea of this is more than one of these kids are probably going to be envolved in this game. I will be with my wife when I'm out and about, I will protect my wife at all cost. If I catch one of these kids trying to hit me and I notice he is not alone. 1 I'm out numbered 2 the intent of bodily harm is there 3 The unknown of their intent after they try to knock me out. I'm going to guns, if there is any ill intent when my Glock is out, there won't be much longer.

We all have the issues of dealing with the people defending the perp, race, opinions and politics. Even though we would be the "victim" in the knockout game everyone is going to get the chance to tear our choices apart. We are in a strange world with the current political situation and I hope none of you are faced with this.
 
So--seven males attack one sixty year old woman, and two are shot. It would be hard to argue against the existence of a clear disparity of force. The only issue would seem to be whether, or the extent to which, they started to flee before she fired. We do not know.

In the Lansing case, the attacker had a Taser. It apparently did not work, but that might have been a temporary problem.

Publicity is way up. Von Susteren had a victim on last night. Her view was that we need to "reach out" to the people who do these things. No comment.

On the Wilkow Majority today, the host was espousing the view that if a few of the perps end up shot, the frequency will fall off.

The Lansing case occurred in February. Why it's all over the web now is unclear to me.

It seems that the perps are videotaping their "work" these days. Something to keep an eye open for. Also might serve as clear evidence of intent--just thinking, here.

Where I live, we have a duty to retreat, and we do not have anything along the lines of a provision for defensive display. That is not to say that such a display might not be the prudent thing to do. The issue of justification would be determined later by others.

That brings up one other thought: a basis for a reasonable belief is also something to be judged after the fact, based on what the actor knew at the time. One does not want to shoot an unarmed teen, or anyone else for that matter, but when one takes into account the combination of the increasing ferocity and increasing prevalence of these incidents in some areas and the apparent targeting of seemingly helpless victims, one wonders whether those who would sit in judgment just might see things in a different light from some other 'run of the mill' defensive encounters involving unarmed attackers.

At least in some jurisdictions.....
 
I'll reach out alright, with a fist full of quarters :cuss:

but on another hand, there are already 3 victims dead from this game, how could anyone not be in fear for their life when a group of people approaches them with the intent to harm them, even if at that moment its just one punch it may not always be after all just look at riots to get a look into pack mentality.
 
It remains to be seen. But when the story first appeared I spent some time backtracking it and it always led back to a single offbeat source.

That makes it suspect at the best, and likely fake, as far as I can tell.
 
It's fake.

I've seen threads about it on other forums.

I'd wager $ it's fake.
 
^ The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

As a SSS (status seeking show), being a little bit above average in size could make you an even more prime target.

Being 6'+ and 200lbs+ doesn't mean much of anything in terms of being deterrent to thugs, especially in groups. Trust me. (I'm 6', 215+, relatively young, and weight train regularly...doesn't mean I'm going to get a pass)

If anything it just means that I'm a lot slower than I used to be, back when I was a runner that weighed 170
 
I believe that this type of assault is prevalent because there is little repercussion from the law. It may be a gang initiation or rite-of-passing type of thing or boredom but if they get arrested, what do they get charged with? Misdemeanor assault? That's chump change and a badge of honor to these guys. They do it and get away with it because they can and until specific legislation for these types of crimes comes along to make it a felony (in cases where there is no serious injury) then they will continue to do it and we are at risk. They really have nothing to lose.
 
No no no no no... puh-leeze. No more "specific" legislation. What laws we have are already far more than enough if we'll just ENFORCE them properly and equally.
 
The subject of penalties is not within our scope.

We need to be focusing our discussion on how to avoid being victimized and on how best to defend ourselves if avoidance fails.
 
I agree with a previous post saying how you present youself is how you will be seen, predator or victim. That said some folks set themselves up as victims from the start. Being aware and trust your instincts, that little tingle,or ominous feeling is often right. Several times I've been places something is not quite right and often if you take the time to see what is going on around you you'll figure it out.

I'm no big guru on things like this, just a hillbilly that's had to work in different places.

Some reports mention that if the victims were not knocked out at first blow the attackers have often continued until they are too tired to continue or the victim is dead. Often the attackers friends have evidently joined in as well in some cases.

As far as less than lethal options, i keep a flail on me at all times. Homemade and never gets mentioned at any security type things so i always have it on me. It is also always right at hand.

Sorry for the digression.
 
Being 6'+ and 200lbs+ doesn't mean much of anything in terms of being deterrent to thugs, especially in groups.
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I have seen it make a difference. I pulled up to a pizza place to get my order when a local gang started heading my way - while I was still in the car. There was maybe 6 of them. As soon as I got out of the car they turned and started walking the other way. I'm 6'1" and weighed maybe 190 at that time. The gang bangers were a group of teenagers and none of them very big. I'm certainly not saying it's always a deterrent but it can be if you present yourself in a certain way. If you act like you're hoping they will start something the chances are they won't. I've backed down MUCH bigger men like that. If it doesn't work there's always running. :)

BTW a flail can be a devastating weapon. I've seen people lose half their skull from a blow from a blackjack, which is essentially a flail. Death is a possibility from a blow from a flail depending on the size and type of the weapon. I think I would just as soon use a gun. I often carry a cane for dealing with non-lethal situations. I have a cane that is special made for such things although it looks like any ordinary cane.
 
Well, I always look tee-ed off and I really don't care that much if I live or die. I've been told countless times this is apparent to others so I guess I'm okay regards to having a "don't mess with me attitude" despite the fact that I can barely walk.
 
Kleanbore said:
The subject of penalties is not within our scope.

We need to be focusing our discussion on how to avoid being victimized and on how best to defend ourselves if avoidance fails.
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I would suggest that avoidance is the only solution. If the point of the game is to knock someone out in one hit, the goal is to get someone before they know what's happening. Proper Situational Awareness should be enough to get them to find another target. Other types of hoodlums committing other types of crimes will require other types of deterrence, but for this "game" simply being aware should be enough.
 
i went back and looked thru the videos on the thread. they do a good enough job of showing the assault.

after seeing the assaults play out - i doubt that a gun is the best defense. the simple reason is that this "game" happens so fast and is done by surprise. you don't have time to draw a weapon. certainly situational awareness is a major answer - although I am troubled by one incident where a woman was knocked down by a person running up from behind. But other than SA, the defense against this game is so simple that it's usually one of the first moves taught in any Krav Maga class. just raise your hand and place it behind your ear (or behind your head on your neck), which also raises your elbow level with your face. this move BLOCKS an incoming punch coming from the side of the head. many of the punches from the knockout game are thrown sideways as the victim walks past. all you have to do is to block or cover that punch using your raised arm. after that, if you want to hit back - that's up to you.

if one of these kids encounters a trained boxer or fighter ... it's curtains for the Free World.
Or at least the teenage free world :)

CA R
 
I think it's safe to say these videos are awfully disturbing.

I hope I wouldn't have just strolled right up to that crew like the teacher in the alley that got knocked to the curb.

I almost wish the media wouldn't be playing these clips on national TV. Im glad Im aware but I feel it will do more to popularize it than anything else.
 
I almost wish the media wouldn't be playing these clips on national TV. Im glad Im aware but I feel it will do more to popularize it than anything else.
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I am the opposite. I am glad that this "game" is getting lots of press. Press is partly the reason I posted it here, to raise awareness to what the youth of (mostly) inner city is doing for fun. The faster these punks learn this is not a game but assault that can lead to consequences, like getting shot or prosecuted, maybe they might not consider it all that fun after all.
 
It being publicized in this manner gives credence to some degree of pre emptive use of force by possible victims in situations that have all the features of an attempt to play the knockout game.

I believe it would be reasonable to infer ability, opportunity, and intent based on encroachment by a group of youths behaving as we've seen in the vids.

This is a training issue. Southnarc has a tremendously useful set of precursors to look for and a proactive method of screening and deterring would-be or potential attackers before escalating to preemptive use of force.

I'm not advocating untrained individuals "jumping the gun" here but within a preexisting framework of good training I believe the now-common knowledge of the knockout game is a plus in terms of being able to respond appropriately.
 
Posted by conw: It being publicized in this manner gives credence to some degree of pre emptive use of force by possible victims in situations that have all the features of an attempt to play the knockout game.

I believe it would be reasonable to infer ability, opportunity, and intent based on encroachment by a group of youths behaving as we've seen in the vids.

...within a preexisting framework of good training I believe the now-common knowledge of the knockout game is a plus in terms of being able to respond appropriately.
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That seems extremely reasonable to me.

Just a thought: Based on what I have seen and heard, it would seem that indications that people are pointing smart phones at someone might well be one indication that one is being targeted.
 
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