Strong safe---where

[BIGGBAY90]

That might still be stronger then what i hav now(ha) great picture a1abdj----im still looking---and i learned a whole lot(thinking my safe was bullet proof(liberty centurion)-but i do want a strong safe

 

[a1abdj]

C-Vault: The Newest Security Product, And The Only Safe That Uses Recycled Corrugated Cardboard!

ONLY SAFE WITH ZERO BREAK INS! Rated #1 In Gun Safe Survey! Factory Direct - Best Priced Cardboard Safe On The Internet!


Door:


2.5" Composite Jig-Saw Door. Heaviest Of All Time! More Jigs Than The Competition!

Crane Hinge And Pressure System Ensure Tightest Fit. No Dimes Fitting In Here!

Captain's Wheel Operates Fourteen 1.5 Inch Live Locking Bolts, Locking Door On All Four Sides.

Manipulation Resistant Cardboard Lock. Ever Hear Cardboard Rubbing Together? Won't Hear Anything Through A Stethascope!


Body:



5" Solid Laminated Body.

Reinforced Glued Corners Are Better Than Welded Corners Offered By Competitors!


Unmatched Burglary Protection:



Laminated Cardboard Stops Burglars In Their Tracks!

Safe Is Designed To Thwart Hand Tools, Power Tools, Cutting Torches, Explosives, Nuclear Blasts, Dimes, Gnomes, And Box Cutters!


Advanced Fire Protection:


Each Layer Of Cardboard Individually Flame Retardant. Competitors Only Offer "Resistant". Which Would You Rather Have? Nine Out Of Ten Persons Polled Thinks Retardant Is Better!

Each Layer Of Cardboard Retardant For Five Minutes! The Law Of Thermodynamics States That Time (T) x Layers (L) = Fire Not Getting In! Multiply That Number Times The Cosign Of Pie For Your BTUs.


The First Green Safe Company:



No Power Is Used In The Production Of These Safes. All Pieces Are Cut By Hand And Assembled In The Daylight.

All Adhesives Are Biodegradable.

The Box Used To Ship The Safe Is Actually Part Of The Safe! No Waste!

Lightweight Structure Keeps Your Shipping Cost Down And Your Carbon Footprint Small!

 

[a1abdj]

LOL, that is awesome. I would actually buy one of those! What do you want for that shipped down to Texas?

I could put you in touch with the artist if you're really interested. I am guessing expensive, perhaps even very expensive (not counting shipping).

Frank, you must be the most patient guy in the world. You've been doing these kinds of informational threads and discussions for years on THR and I'm amazed you've still got the patience for it.

It appears that people still don't know what they're buying. It's not their fault really. It's hard to find factual information on safes, and even when you do, how do you know that it is?

Many manufacturers aren't helping any. They are more interested in selling product than educating consumers. They know that the odds are working in their favor, so they have no interest in telling the truth.

And so I'm still here, hammering away. If it only saves one child.

 

[BIGGBAY90]

Stop man!!!!!!! You're killing me---laughing tooooooo hard :d

 

[adirondack]

Well I said I was not going to post on this thread but seeing as how my name came up a few times in my absence, I've changed my mind.

Oh Frank, I saw someone left a message on your phone; just for the record it wasn't me, I would never do anything like that. Now showing up at your shop with a Sturdy Safe a video camera and a stop watch I might do.

I saw your picture and comment about the safe that had been broken in from the top of the door.





The piece of paper wouldn't fit length wise.

 

[a1abdj]

If the door will close without a compression system, it's not that tight. I'm working on a safe conversion now where the safe is 1" plate all the way around, and it's tighter than the door in your photo, and it doesn't have a compression system.

The problem is still not how tight the door is. That is a minor inconvienance for somebody who knows what they're doing. If the material can be deformed, that tight space won't stay tight forever.

Snug doors are quite common in the safe industry.

 

[BIGGBAY90]

Wow---is that the sturdy safe

 

[adirondack]

Wow---is that the sturdy safe

Yes it is BIGGBAY90, same tight tolerances, quality workmanship and attention to detail throughout this Gun safe.

If the door will close without a compression system, it's not that tight. I'm working on a safe conversion now where the safe is 1" plate all the way around, and it's tighter than the door in your photo, and it doesn't have a compression system.

What? Didn't you just contradict yourself

The problem is still not how tight the door is. That is a minor inconvienance for somebody who knows what they're doing. If the material can be deformed, that tight space won't stay tight forever.

Hey it's your dream make it as big as you want.

Structural steel that's likely A50 grade (50,000PSI Yield Strength) or A36 minimum and you have a gap the width of two sheets of paper thick to try get a gap big enough to get a pry bar toe hold with that will only be pushing into the plate verses lifting up on the door. We haven't even gotten to how much force will be needed and how long it will need to be sustained in order to get an opening in the door, here's a hint you wouldn't be able to do it with a 15 Ton Crane.

 

[BIGGBAY90]

So if a sheet of paper cannot get throught how would just a crowbar get started ----maybe with a hammer but we were talking about a crowbar and ax only.-----humm a1abdj with that smmmmalll gap can just a crowbar open some safes?

 

[a1abdj]

What? Didn't you just contradict yourself

No. The safe pictured below is solid 1" plate and has a door gap smaller than the Sturdy, yet does not require a pressure system. I do have safes with doors tight enough that they do require a pressure system. These safes are essentially putting steel against steel.

You'll notice in the first photo that the door is so tight that it will not close without being forced on a piece of paper. The second photo shows how the width of a dime spans the gap entirely.

Hey it's your dream make it as big as you want.

Structural steel that's likely A50 grade (50,000PSI Yield Strength) or A36 minimum and you have a gap the width of two sheets of paper thick to try get a gap big enough to get a pry bar toe hold with that will only be pushing into the plate verses lifting up on the door.

Again, I'm not going to give away burglary advice on a public forum, but assure you, that material 5/16" thick, as well as the surrounding 3/16" material can be deformed in order to enlarge that gap.

We haven't even get to how much force will be needed and how long it will need to be sustained in order to get an opening in the door, he's a hint you wouldn't be able to do it with a 15 Ton Crane.

I don't know where you're coming up with this stuff at. So you're saying you could lay that Sturdy door down flat, use it like a bridge that's supported on both sides of the door, and apply 30,000 pounds without the door flexing?

Let's look at a trailer that's designed to support that kind of weight, and the materials used to construct it. Then let's compare that to Sturdy's door.

You my friend have gone completely mad.

I'm not looking to rip the door off. I'm not looking to shear the bolts. I'm not looking to get an opening through the door. I'm merely looking to flex it a few inches.

So if a sheet of paper cannot get throught how would just a crowbar get started ----maybe with a hammer but we were talking about a crowbar and ax only.-----humm a1abdj with that smmmmalll gap can just a crowbar open some safes?

The same way a prybar could get into the cardboard safe pictured above. It too has a small gap, yet that gap can be enlarged by exploiting the weakness of the cardboard.

In this case, you would be exploiting the weakness of the 3/16" and/or 5/16" materials. Sure it's harder than the cardboard, but it's still thin enough to be manipulated by hand. If the safe was solid 1/2" plate all the way around, you wouldn't stand a chance with a pry bar.

3/16" and 5/16" steel will flex quite easily. You add some reinforcement, and it makes it that much more difficult. However, it is not so difficult that it can not be done with hand tools.

The little crowbars you mentioned would not have much luck. Doing this type of stuff would take a 6' bar. Then again, there are "hydraulic bars" that would fit in a back pack which would make short work out of these lighter safes.

 

[BADUNAME17]

Adirondack makes more logical sense, and he has no alternate motive to say the things he is saying. However, Frank (a1abdj) is not just educating here, he’s trying to sell a Chinese safe to a good American patriot on this thread. Therefore, Frank has an alternative motive to say the things he is saying about Sturdy Safe.

To prove his point, Frank shows a picture of a much inferior, pried open Winchester safe. It only has a ¼ door, plus a thin 11g body, yet he just states he has seen thicker safes pried open. He also admits the linkage was the weak link in this attack, and that the door was not recessed like ours, which helps prevent pry attacks. In another point, he straight up said he can pry a Sturdy Safe door open, using methods unknown to everybody but him, and in his last post, it looks like he's insinuating he can do it with a 6ft prybar. Keep in mind, he says this knowing it would take over 10000lb of pressure to even attempt to pull the door out on a single corner of a Sturdy Safe.

To prove our point, we did a myth busters video on Frank‘s claim. Is it really possible to generate OVER 10000 lb of force using a pry bar, which could POSSIBLY open a Sturdy Safe door. Here is a private link to see it. We made it especially for all the guys in this forum. Please note we are using the same forklift and pry bar as used in our other videos.

This video includes a pry bar, that in no way, can be used against a Sturdy Safe because it’s tip is too thick, but we used this heavy duty pry bar to prove a point anyways. What we are trying to do in this video clip is to generate just 9000lb of force at the tip of the pry bar. Even with this heavy duty forged pry bar, and a cheater bar, we could not lift one end of a stack of steel weighing 9000lb. To further understand why we were using 9000lb as a reference point, please go to our website and look at our 10000lb. forklift test video.

The public tends to get mad at anyone who would stretch the truth out of the realm of practicality simply to discredit an American made safe, like Sturdy. Sturdy is all for sharing practical and honest information about gun safes and fire safe. We feel we do so better than any other gun safe mfg in the US. We also welcome practical debates, and that use to be where Frank came from, but now it seems he will say anything, regardless of practicality, in the sole effort to damage Sturdy and sell his own goods.

 

[a1abdj]

However, Frank (a1abdj) is not just educating here, he’s trying to sell a Chinese safe to a good American patriot on this thread.

I am?

I'm not trying to sell anything in this thread, let alone a Chinese safe. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Therefore, Frank has an alternative motive to say the things he is saying about Sturdy Safe.

Somebody's reading comprehension isn't that great. If you read through the thread, I have stated that I could pry most gun safes open, including the safes I sell. There's no alternative motive here Alyssa.

My motive is education alone. I'm not here selling anything. I'm also not bad mouthing your products. Your customer keeps bringing up your safe as an example, so that's why we're talking about it. If he was bringing up the AMSEC BF series constantly, I'd be talking about prying it open (although it would have to be a different type of attack).

I am simply stating that any safe that is not built out of substantial steel plate (1/2" or heavier) is susceptible to a pry attack. That covers 99% of safes currently marketed as gun safes.

Are some more stout than others? They sure are. Yours is one of them. Is your safe pry proof? It isn't, and I'm not going to lie about it. It would certainly be more difficult than many of the others, but it's far from impossible. It also isn't drill proof, saw proof, torch proof, etc.

To prove his point, Frank shows a picture of a much inferior, pried open Winchester safe.

My point was that 5/16" steel can be flexed with a pry bar. The 1/4" door on that Winchester was clearly bent, not flexed, with a pry bar. That photo had nothing further to do with the discussion.

The method of attack on that door was entirely different that what I am talking about. In the case of that safe, it's weak bolt design was exploited. Your bolt system is much stronger than that, and as such, your safe wouldn't be forced open in an identical attack.

It only has a ¼ door, plus a thin 11g body, yet he just states he has seen thicker safes pried open.

You've never seen a B rate safe pried open? I'm surprised. We see several a year. I would have assumed as a manufacturer doing research on construction techniques, you would have come across some.

If anybody here doubts me, feel free to open up your yellow pages and call a local safe company. Ask them if they have ever seen one. I understand that everybody is not in a major metro area like I am, and I probably see more than a small town guy might. B rate safes are probably the most common safe used in commercial applications, and there are plenty of business burglaries.

He also admits the linkage was the weak link in this attack, and that the door was not recessed like ours, which helps prevent pry attacks.

Take a deep breath. Read what I said again. I was not insinuating any other similiarities other than approximate door thickness, and the ability to bend that thickness metal with hand tools. Hell, without reinforcement it flexes under its own weight.

It seems everybody wants to read into what I'm saying instead of the plain english I'm typing.

In another point, he straight up said he can pry a Sturdy Safe door open,

No I didn't. I said I can open a Sturdy safe using a pry bar. I didn't say I was going to pry the door open. I have said multiple times that I didn't need to open the door with the pry bar, I only needed to make it flex a few inches.

using methods unknown to everybody but him

Well here's the delimma. I could talk about these methods, and every would be criminal with the ability to use Google can learn about them from me. Or, I could explain the weaknesses of your particular product, which you could then potentially eliminate on future models.

Last I checked, you haven't hired me as a consultant, so that rules out the free security evaluation. Those of us who take this business seriously put the security of our customers first. That rules out the free online education for burglars as far as burglary techniques.

Keep in mind, he says this knowing it would take over 10000lb of pressure to even attempt to pull the door out on a single corner of a Sturdy Safe.

I have no idea how much it would take to pull on a corner. I woudn't be pulling on a corner anyway.

To prove our point, we did a myth busters video on Frank‘s claim. Is it really possible to generate OVER 10000 lb of force using a pry bar, which could POSSIBLY open a Sturdy Safe door. Here is a private link to see it. We made it especially for all the guys in this forum. Please note we are using the same forklift and pry bar as used in our other videos.

I haven't watched your video, but even your own customer, an engineer, who's opinion in this thread you seem to agree with, has already said (and proven with math) that it's possible.

The only math that hasn't been done, is the math to determine how much pressure it would take to flex your door. I'm fairly sure it's less than 10,000 pounds.

If you want to make another video here's an idea. Take one of your doors and set the bottom on the floor, and the top on something solid. Then take your 10,000 pound forklift and drive up it like a ramp. Then let's see how far it flexes.

This video includes a pry bar, that in no way, can be used against a Sturdy Safe because it’s tip is too thick, but we used this heavy duty pry bar to prove a point anyways. What we are trying to do in this video clip is to generate just 9000lb of force at the tip of the pry bar. Even with this heavy duty forged pry bar, and a cheater bar, we could not lift one end of a stack of steel weighing 9000lb. To further understand why we were using 9000lb as a reference point, please go to our website and look at our 10000lb. forklift test video.

You're doing something wrong. I use my bar to move around vault doors weighing anywhere from 5,000 to 12,000 pounds. Not only can I easily pry them around (keep in mind I weigh about 140 pounds), but I can also lift them as needed. Even though it's one side at a time, it does not take my full body weight to lift them. On lighter doors (5,000 pounders), I can lift them one end at a time with only my arms pushing on the bar.

The public tends to get mad at anyone who would stretch the truth out of the realm of practicality simply to discredit an American made safe, like Sturdy.

I'm not discrediting your safe. I'm merely saying it's not pry proof. It's certainly pry resistant, nobody is saying that it's not.

What I am saying is that any safe, from any country, made for any purpose, made by any manufacturer, that is not made out of heavy plate (or other high strength materials such as composite fills), is susceptible to forced opening by hand tools, including pry bars.

If your customer didn't want to argue about your safe, your name wouldn't keep popping up. I think I gave him an out earlier in the thread by suggesting you may not want the constant attention.

Sturdy is all for sharing practical and honest information about gun safes and fire safe. We feel we do so better than any other gun safe mfg in the US.

You're one of the only manufacturers I've seen on a gun forum. I'll give you credit for that. However, you can't put yourselves out there as an extensive knowlege base for all things safe related, because your experience is limited to a very specific segment of the business.

We also welcome practical debates, and that use to be where Frank came from, but now it seems he will say anything, regardless of practicality, in the sole effort to damage Sturdy and sell his own goods.

Again Alyssa, you have your facts wrong. To recap:

* I have not attempted to sell any safe in this thread

* I have not said anything about your products that aren't true. What I have said applies to all safes, from all manufacturers, and of all types, including safes that I sell.

* Gun safes make up such a small percentage of my business, that there is no incentive for me to attempt to increase my sales by spending time on gun forums. I'm actually here to read about gun related stuff, and in exchange for that free information, share what I know as it applies to safes.

So how about it? You going to make a video of you ramping a forklift with one of your safe doors? You actually don't have to, because my point is already shown in your original video. That 1/2" plate, which is about twice as thick as your door, flexed quite a bit using your 10,000 pound lift. If you can flex 1/2" plate with 10,000 pounds of pressure, it will take much less to flex 5/16". Add a few thousand pounds for the angle, and there you have it.

 

[btn]

LOL. Great video! My girlfriend caught the end and made me watch the whole thing again. It was even better the second time.

I can't wait to see Franks response. My guess is he's building a cardboard pry bar so he can demonstrate his theory on his cardboard safe.

 

[a1abdj]

I can't wait to see Franks response. My guess is he's building a cardboard pry bar so he can demonstrate his theory on his cardboard safe.

It's right above you there.

I'm not talking theory. I don't have many theories when it comes to safes being broken into. I see it often.

You laugh at the cardboard safe? I think my posting it further proves my point. Light materials take light effort to manipulate. Breaking into a cardboard safe could be done by a 5 year old.

Well, 5/16" steel isn't exactly heavy, especially when it comes to safes. Although a 5 year old probably wouldn't have much luck against it, an adult would. Keep in mind that the door on a safe with a 15 minute burglary rating is 5 times thicker.

Granted you won't bend 1.5" plate with a pry bar, nor will you bend 1" plate with a pry bar. 1/2" is heavy enough that you won't bend it, although you could potentially flex it a bit by hand.

If you want to believe that 3/16" and 5/16" is an impenetrable barrier, then more power to you.

 

[btn]

Frank, Here is an old post from adirondack that explains to you why your "test" is bogus.

The real issue is how are you going to generate a tension well in excess of 10,000 LBS as the fork truck video shows. The door frame, welds, bolts, linkages everything made it through that test and the safe still functioned, it did look like it was a little more difficult to turn the handle so a bolt may have been slightly bent; however, the tension was applied at the worst possible place it could be so Terry really wasn't even being fair to himself.

Frank,

I saw your comment on the flat stock flexing. Of course it would, and so too would the 1/2" flat plate stock used in your Chinese safe if it didn't have the heavy 3/16" L channel and U channel that's framed under the Sturdy Safe door.

And another from Lee Roder

Quote:
"The rigidity of any given material is inherent in its molecular composition."

to a point, but it is much more determined by the material's form, e.g. an I-beam is far more rigid than a thin cylindrical rod of the same weight of material.

As for you not trying to sell anything I spent 11 years on the buy side in the business I'm in, and the last 16 on the sell side. I know a salesman when I see one. Of course I have nothing against a salesperson since I am one, I just have a problem when someone is masquerading as objective when clearly he's not.

 

[Keizer]

I thought it was pretty humorous that Sturdy actually felt the need to make a video for you Frank. You should feel honored. I bet American Security would have simply laughed and went on with their record safe sales.

On another note, I have not seen Frank do nothing but state facts. Accusing him of bad mouthing Sturdy so he can sell his own product is really stooping low. Claiming he has alternative motives is simply wrong. If anyone has alternative motives it's the Sturdy safe company because they are trying to sell safes here in this thread. Also a few of the participating members in this thread have alternative motives because they own a Sturdy safe and refuse to accept the facts.

 

[a1abdj]

Frank, Here is an old post from adirondack that explains to you why your "test" is bogus.

Bogus how? What test? I don't think we're on the same page here.

I know a salesman when I see one.

You do? What am I selling? Is it a subliminal thing? Perhaps I'm selling stuff that I don't even know I'm selling.

I just have a problem when someone is masquerading as objective when clearly he's not.

Then you certainly won't have a problem with me. You will see that I have well over 1,000 informational posts here on this forum as they relate to safes. The vast majority of those involve safes I don't even sell. Even when it is a safe I sell, I usually suggest they deal with a local vendor.

If we were shooting, you didn't even hit the paper this time.

I thought it was pretty humorous that Sturdy actually felt the need to make a video for you Frank. You should feel honored. I bet American Security would have simply laughed and went on with their record safe sales.

You're right. AMSEC would probably never make a video for me. I do feel honored, but must confess, I did send Alyssa a photo of me posing with one of her safes in a similar fashion that she was posing on the website. Even though it didn't show much skin, she probably felt obligated to return the favor some day. I suppose this video fills the roll, and perhaps I should give it a viewing.

 

[Keizer]

For those thinking that Frank is trying to bad mouth Sturdy, and sell his own product, I offer my experience with the man. Last year around this time I was in the market for a gun safe. Frank gave me loads of educational advice, not once trying to sell me his products. Matter of fact, after making my decision to purchase an AMSEC BF series gun safe, (Off Franks advice) I bought it from another seller.

Later I decided that I wanted to change my electronic lock to a dial. The fact I worked as a journey level machinist, and the fact the AMSEC locking system is pretty simple(comparatively speaking) I was sure I could make the switch myself. I contacted Frank, and he was willing to sell me the dial to do the trade out. Probably not something he would have done for someone with very little experience in working with such things.

I never did do the switch out, but the fact he was willing to help me even after buying my safe from another company, proves he is not out to serve himself.

I know there are loads of other members that feel the same way about him.

 

[btn]

You will see that I have well over 1,000 informational posts here on this forum as they relate to safes.

You do? What am I selling? Is it a subliminal thing? Perhaps I'm selling stuff that I don't even know I'm selling.

You've been pushing Amsec since the day I joined this site. And you've brought up your "B rated" gun safe several times as well. I'm still trying to figure out if that 1/4 inch is cumulative or one piece, can never be sure with your posts. Of course those are only the most obvious examples. You do a great job twisting things around as well so that they present the safes you sell in a more positive light.

 

[a1abdj]

You've been pushing Amsec since the day I joined this site.

Because they are one of the best products available in their price range. It's no doubt I sell AMSEC products. They are one of the largest manufacturers in the US. Since most of my sales are commercial safes, and they are one of the largest commercial safe manufacturers, it's logical that I'm a dealer.

If somebody from the forum wants to buy a safe from me, I'll gladly sell it to them. I may be suggesting the safe, but you don't really see me here suggesting that they buy them from me.

And you've brought up your "B rated" gun safe several times as well.

I sure have. I have also sold ZERO of them to THR members. If I was here to sell them, I would have slightly higher sales figures. They too are a good safe for the price.

Why stop there though? I have brought up the fact that I sell vault doors here. Am I here trying to sell vault doors? Would you like to buy one? Would anybody reading this like to buy one? My average vault door sale would equate approximately 200 gun safe sales. If I was going to come here to sell something, this is what I'd be selling.

Ironically, you own a Sturdy and a Brown: The only two manufacturers that post on this site. Who's here to sell safes again?

You do a great job twisting things around as well so that they present the safes you sell in a more positive light.

Seems that everybody else does a better job at twisting things around to accuse me of doing things that I'm not doing, and saying things that I'm not saying.

 

[btn]

If anyone has alternative motives it's the Sturdy safe company because they are trying to sell safes here in this thread. Also a few of the participating members in this thread have alternative motives because they own a Sturdy safe and refuse to accept the facts.

You're proving again that logic ain't exactly your strong suit.

Sturdy is on here because Frank has spent days saying he can do something to their safe they believe he can't. And a fact is something that is proven, until Frank proves he can break into a Sturdy Safe using a pry bar it's just a dream.

I will tell you what's a fact. That I can break through a 1.5 inch concrete block with my hand. That's why I don't buy into Franks theory about how an 11 gauge, or is it 12 gauge now, outer shell with a 1.5 inch concrete, pearlite or whatever followed with a 16 gauge inner shell will keep anyone out of that Amsec for more then a minute.

As for alternative motives I feel the same about you. So lets call it a draw.

 

[btn]

If somebody from the forum wants to buy a safe from me, I'll gladly sell it to them. I may be suggesting the safe, but you don't really see me here suggesting that they buy them from me.

Ah, ok.

Ironically, you own a Sturdy and a Brown: The only two manufacturers that post on this site. Who's here to sell safes again?

Of course I bought the Brown prior to him coming on here to correct the misinformation you stated about their safes. I can't fault him for setting the record straight. Apparently you haven't gotten over it. But thats par for the course.

Sturdy has also come here to correct your misrepresentaions. Misrepresentations that some gullible THR readers call "facts."

BTW got my Brown today, the finish is excellent unlike what you said about the two you say you saw.

 

[a1abdj]

Sturdy is on here because Frank has spent days saying he can do something to their safe they believe he can't.

Actually, they were here long before this thread.

And a fact is something that is proven, until Frank proves he can break into a Sturdy Safe using a pry bar it's just a dream.

Have you ever counted to 10,000? Would I need you to count to 10,000 to believe you could do it? I'm fairly confident you could do so, and if you said you could, would believe you.

You may not know my full resume (and I've done a lot of non safe related stuff), but I assure you, if I say I can do something, it's not a dream. Just because I haven't done it, doesn't mean I can't. I have never opened an inexpensive fire safe with a can opener, but I could. Believe me?

I will tell you what's a fact. That I can break through a 1.5 inch concrete block with my hand.

I believe that. I've seen martial arts guys do it.

That's why I don't buy into Franks theory about how an 11 gauge, or is it 12 gauge now, outer shell with a 1.5 inch concrete, pearlite or whatever followed with a 16 gauge inner shell will keep anyone out of that Amsec for more then a minute.

Never was 12 gauge. It was 10 gauge during some model years, and is 11 gauge on the newer models.

Pearlite? Did you get that word from the engineer? I've never used it.

Anyways, let's get back to the point. Disregard the concrete, we know you can Karate chop your way through. You're saying that you could go through the 11 gauge and the 16 gauge in less than a minute (some of that minute has to go to dealing with the concrete).

If that's the case, you could also get through Sturdy's body in the same time right?

Of course I bought the Brown prior to him coming on here to correct the misinformation you stated about their safes. I can't fault him for setting the record straight. Apparently you haven't gotten over it. But thats par for the course.

I didn't state any misinformation about Brown. We've been over this. I stated that I didn't believe they were selling UL rated safes. I didn't believe it. When I took a quick look at their website, they were showing E and F rate safes. To somebody in the business, that's a sign of a safe that not UL rated.

I never said they didn't sell them. I said I didn't believe they did. They came in and said that they did, and upon digging deeper on ther website, I found reference to UL rated safes.

If I said I don't believe Ford ever sold a canary yellow car, that doesn't translate into me spreading misinformation about Ford.

Sturdy has also come here to correct your misrepresentaions. Misrepresentations that some gullible THR readers call "facts."

I also don't recall any misrepresentations, or corrected misrepresentations from Sturdy. They disagree with me on a few things, but there's no misrepresenting going on.

BTW got my Brown today, the finish is excellent unlike what you said about the two you say you saw.

That's great! I was hoping after a few years they may get that kink worked out. I'd hate to see everybody who bought a $6,000 safe getting a bad paint job. Perhaps the finish problem that I saw was a fluke?

Of course you know what they say. First impressions and all.

 

[btn]

Actually, they were here long before this thread.

Yes. It seems to me that Sturdy usually comes on to this board to correct something you've said. It must be getting really tiresome for them.

As for me I've been in my business 26 years. Although I consider myself an expert I would never claim to know all, or even close to it. In fact I learn something new all the time...

 

[adirondack]

To prove our point, we did a myth busters video on Frank‘s claim.

Awesome video, Alyssa! Sorry you guys had to ruin a nice pry bar to prove a1abdj is full of it.