Suppressed rifle for elk?

[thefish]

A few questions for anyone out there who hunts elk with a suppressor.

What caliber? And do you load subsonic?

And if not, how much of the noise signature is reduced/removed? I understand that this is a subjective question.

I was thinking about a .308 with a suppressor, but don't know how effective it would be with out subsonic ammo, and don't know if a subsonic loading would be effective at putting down an elk.

Kind of starting this journey.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Art Eatman]

The last thing I'd ever use on an elk would be sub-sonic ammo. Not enough Oomph, in my opinion.

I stood fairly close to a suppressed .308 with normal ammo. Not really all that loud, compared to un-suppressed.

To me, my opinion, a suppressor on a walking-around hunting rifle is pretty much just un-needed extra weight and length.

 

[climbnjump]

I was thinking about a .308 with a suppressor, but don't know how effective it would be with out subsonic ammo, and don't know if a subsonic loading would be effective at putting down an elk.

I have no experience with suppressors, but I'm not sure about using a subsonic load out of a .308. Most hunting bullets will need more velocity than that in order to expand properly and cause necessary tissue damage.

Also not sure what weight bullet you were thinking of using, but a 180 gr bullet at 1000 fps only generates about 400 ft-lbs of energy*. At least one old rule of thumb suggests a minimum of 1000 to 1500 ft-lbs** for an elk.

ETA for clarity:
* - at the muzzle
** - at point of impact (not muzzle)

 

[notaglockfanboy]

+1 on both posts above.

 

[rondog]

I'd kinda think it would be a very expensive and unnecessary accessory. When you're hunting big game, it's not likely you're going to be doing a lot of shooting, right? If you fire your hunting rifle more than three times at an animal, I'd say you need something other than a suppressor. Just carry some ear protection.

I certainly wouldn't worry about OTHER people hearing the shot, unless you're not hunting legally or in legal areas.

A suppressed varmint or target rifle, I could see that. But not something you're only going to shoot one or two rounds from per outing.

Just my poor-boy opinion. I'd love to have suppressed firearms! But not a priority to me for hunting.

 

[thefish]

Cool. Thanks for the input. I did a little more research on my own and pretty much came to the same conclusions you guys did. Not really worth the expense and weight penalty, and definatelly need full tilt charges.

Thanks!

 

[Liquidring]

My first post here, I've been lurking for a long time, but, a suppressor, even with subsonic ammo will not make your rifle "Hollywood" quite, with full power ammo, a good can gets rid of the boom of the gun, you still get the crack of the bullet breaking the sound barrier. I shoot my CZ bolt action .223 from my back deck all the time with my can, neighbors say it sounds like a .22lr, my 9mm can is the same way.
I load sub sonic rounds for both, and they are fun for letting the grand kids shoot a "big gun" and not scare them, but a sub sonic shouldn't be used for hunting, unless it's a crow in the tree, early in the morning.
if you're hunting around a lot of game, it may help you to not spook a lot of them, but use full power loads if hunting, and it's legal to hunt with.

 

[Swing]

The last thing I'd ever use on an elk would be sub-sonic ammo. Not enough Oomph, in my opinion.

+1. I'm all for (legal) suppressed hunting. But a subsonic bouncing of an elk? Eh, that's a stretch.

 

[rcmodel]

Who you trying to keep from hearing the shot?

The elk certainly won't hear it if you make the first shot count, as you always should anyway.

rc

 

[TimSr]

Dropping under 1100 fps for a .308 200gr bullet is like hunting with a .357 mag revolver. If your shots will be under 25 yards, go for it!

 

[Paul7]

I just use low-profile ear muffs.

 

[Fremmer]

If he just wants significantly less noise from a full power round, will the suppressor significantly reduce the noise?

 

[kanook]

The suppressor will reduce noise and recoil. If it's legal to use, go for it.


A 200 grain 308 is not as similiar to a 357 as you think. The 357 starts out as a 357, the 308 is a 308. The 357 is designed for lower speeds, the 308 is not.

 

[TimSr]

I was being sarcastic. Aside from insufficient energy for either cartridge besides sticking the gun in an elk's ear, I agree with your point that at sub sonic velocity, a .30 bullet will stay a .308 after impact.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

maybe a sub sonic 50ak or 4570 at 50 yards or less. Lots of elk are taken with handguns that don't do much better then that. Don't know how silent it will be with a suppressor with a 50 cal hole in it though.

 

[ChaoSS]

Just something to think about, elk and larger game have been taken with no problems with air rifles that shoot subsonic velocities. The way it's done is very heavy bullets that develop higher (500+ ft/lbs) energy at lower speeds and retain that energy better. Even there though, you'd usually see .458 or .50 rifles being used, not .308.

With those numbers shot placement becomes key.

 

[urbaneruralite]

Saw recently where the head of Silencerco took an elk with a suppressed 6.5mm something or other. Anyhow, as stated above, suppressors, aka silencers, work with regular ammo, too. They're just louder that way.

 

[gamestalker]

I'm not usually one to argue ethics when it concerns hunting, but in this case, I consider subsonic as border line unethical for elk size game. At point blank, maybe, but it would be extremely risky in my opinion. Consider that a +P 38 spcl 158 gr. JSP pushing 1100 fps, and that the projectile would be larger in diameter by .049", and velocity would be slightly above subsonic. With that said, I don't think many hunters would consider using a 38 spcl to hunt elk.

Then there is the whole .308 thing. I wouldn't personally consider using a .308 for elk sized game. I'm sure elk have been taken with the .308, people do things like that, but it certainly doesn't make it an optimal cartridge for such game. Even with a light weight bullet of 155 - 165 grains, velocity is barely on the high side of 2800 fps, barrel length and load development depending, velocity could be a bit more or less. And a heavier more appropriate bullet of 180 - 200 grains would be struggling to reach 2300 - 2400 fps..

And is the weapon by chance an AL-ing rifle? Is so, then velocity will be reduced even more.

As far as the suppressed weapon is concerned, it won't suppress the report all that much with normal super sonic ammunition. I'm sure it will have a noticeable effect, but it certainly won't sound like a 22lr. With subsonic, I'm sure it will be appreciatively reduced, but still not as quiet as a 22 RF rifle.

GS

 

[redbullitt]

Full power 308 class rounds are noticeably quieter suppressed. Not quiet, but they will not ring your ears like an open muzzle shot.

45/70 with a 500g bullet would do just fine hunting through a suppressor. Maybe something like the 510 whisper if you wanna get freaky. A 900g cast bullet out of that with a nice flat nose will do the job too at 1000 fps.

A break action encore, say maybe with a 16 inch barrel would be a perfect candidate, probably coming in suppressed at around the same length as a typical magnum hunting rifle.

 

[Bigjake]

https://thunderbeastarms.com/products/

If you must.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Just something to think about, elk and larger game have been taken with no problems with air rifles that shoot subsonic velocities. The way it's done is very heavy bullets that develop higher (500+ ft/lbs) energy at lower speeds and retain that energy better. Even there though, you'd usually see .458 or .50 rifles being used, not .308.

With those numbers shot placement becomes key.

And the folks using those air rifles are getting pretty close... under 100 yards, and probably more like 50.

I think many folks are shooting at more than 100 yards on an elk, and at that distance or double that wouldn't the suppressor become something that handicaps the load more than it contributes to the attributes of the rifle?

Out here in the East Coast, the suppressors are used when culling the whitetail herd in suburban parks at night, so the suburbanites aren't alarmed, and they are trying to take multiple deer by each hunter in a short period of time so don't want the boom of the shot to spook the whitetails more than the minimal "pop" ....they are a lot smaller than the Elk my brother hunts in New Mexico and a lot closer when this is done, eh?
LD

 

[Packy]

Wish I had experience here. I have esearched this a lot. Saving right now for a 458 can for my 45-70s and the 458 SOCOM. But the basics are the same. Use a long for caliber heavyweight bullet at subsonic velocities. You might or might not be able to reach "Hollywood QUIET". For several calibers look at outlawstatebullets.com They have long .308 bullets designs for subsonic performance on game. Lehigh defence has some bullets too. The Outlaw site lists the optimum twist rate for subsonic performance with each bullet. Hope I was able to help. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

 

[CoRoMo]

I've come across hunters in the backcountry with a mounted can during elk season. They were by no means using subsonic ammo though. Elk are tough and you need power to put one in the freezer.

If he just wants significantly less noise from a full power round, will the suppressor significantly reduce the noise?

Oh yeah. It can definitely be significant. But the added weight and the minimal amount of shooting that should take place in an elk hunt, sort of devalue the pros for a field can. At least the way I hunt; lots of hiking, deep into backcountry, where every ounce had better prove to be necessary.

Texas deer hunts from a blind? I'd want a suppressor ever time. Might as well.

 

[jmorris]

Trapdoor 45-70 405g loads are pretty close to subsonic. A 500 grain bullet at 1050 fps will have over 1200 ft lb of energy. My 458 socom with subsonic loads is pretty quiet.

That said my .223 and .308 rifles suppressed and supersonic sound like .22 LR. Subsonc a 308 and you might as well use a 45 acp.

 

[redbullitt]

Subsonic 308 can be much more than a 45 ACP if you select the bullet right. There is no reason you couldn't run a 250 or even heavier cast bullet in the 308 if your twist is fast enough. Sectional density and B/C is much better than any pistol bullet. I lob a 247g 30 cal at 1075 fps and it does a great job on pests and targets. Not sure i would use it on an elk, but I would always take a a good clean shot on a whitetail with it. Penetration is pretty impressive.

That thunderbeast can listed a couple posts up is excellent, and it is rated for 300 Mag.

I hunt a lot of whitetail and always shoot suppressed. Usually use a 260 rem or 308 win supersonic loads. 16 inch barrel 308 with a 9 inch suppressor is plenty handy to hunt with, and it is my favorite rifle for deer.

The supersonic loadings through the suppressor are muffled quite a bit. You would be happy with it in my opinion. Not quiet, but it will take the edge off enough to keep if from being unpleasant even without ear plugs. Subsonic loads will sound like a good pellet rifle, or a car door closing on a big bore setup.