Teen used ‘ghost gun’ in California high school shooting

[danez71]

Sheeeesh people... Some of these posts seem more like Belomi/Schit/Shcummer wrote them about Trump instead of written by THR members.

Have we joined them by throwing out unsubstantiated disparaging innuendos in attampt to frame a self serving narrative or are we looking for and discussing any facts?

 

[larryh1108]

Facts?
Does the media deal with facts or propaganda?
That is what we are discussing.
The fact that a "ghost gun" being so important to the media is what we are discussing.
It's pointless and serves no purpose other than to stir up the masses and inflame them.

 

[Anchorite]

Like others, I'm highly skeptical of that "1 in 3" number. I've seen hundreds of police reports involving guns in the past few years and can't think of a single one that definitively involved an 80% anything. I've had one or two that said "firearm had no serial number," but it was unclear whether it was an 80% or a defaced firearm.

I also agree that the antis will take this opportunity to equate 80% whatevers with unregistered firearms. That if only we'd force everyone to register everything .....

This. Can’t think of a single case I’ve handled in the last twenty years where it was a “ghost gun.” All were defaced and had the serial number obliterated. I’m very skeptical. Let’s see the gun.

 

[jmorris]

I’m not scared of regular ghost guns; however, the new and improved, mega, super, ultra, mega, supernatural, demon, raptor, widow maker ones, scare the hebejebes out of me.

If I missed any terms intended to dramatize something that’s not dramatic, feel free to insert it above...

 

[MachIVshooter]

I suppose they also include pre 1968 non serial numbered firearms and firearms that have had their serial numbers removed after being stolen. Still dishonest reporting at best. They wonder why they can’t get ahold of problems, while they can’t even be honest with themselves...

I'm positive that's the case. "Ghost gun" is, to them, any firearm without a serial number, whether it ever had one or not, and regardless of how/where/when it was manufactured

 

[Trey Veston]

I'm positive that's the case. "Ghost gun" is, to them, any firearm without a serial number, whether it ever had one or not, and regardless of how/where/when it was manufactured

With the level of stupidity in the media regarding firearms, I could very well see them thinking a grey colored gun was a "ghost" gun, or anything with skulls...

 

[rust collector]

It is interesting to hear from all sorts of self proclaimed experts in the field. “More is unknown about ghost guns than known,” said Nick Suplina, managing director for law and policy at gun safety advocacy group Everytown. Apparently these things are cheap, easy to make, and legal. Clearly, something must be done. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-light-on-murky-ghost-gun-world-idUSKBN1XW1AL Reuters apparently dials up these clowns for information when the BATFE won't return their calls. I suspect no calls were placed to NRA or GOA. No attempt at even handed treatment.

 

[jmorris]

Clearly, something must be done.

Yep, that’s the ones I was talking about.

I find it odd how these people blindly go through life, sometimes engaging and even embracing the very things that will cause their demise, yet focus so intently on others that are statistically improbable to ever cause them harm.

 

[Insignificant bill]

I am not sure if these people are really that ignorant or not.

IF it’s that easy to create them, how are you going to ban them?

IF enacting a law to ban them is really going to work, why not just ban school shootings?

IF that doesn’t work (P.S. it’s already illegal) what it the world makes you think your other ideas will work?

It’s this “we’ve got to do something!” mentality, that got us places like bloodletting or putting leeches on people to treat all sorts of things.



Pretty obvious from our perspective that the idea was stupid. Why can’t they see the same for the ideas they promote?

On the other hand, maybe we need to cut open every child that attends public schools to let just the evil blood out of them...(insert roll eyes face here)

If we are going to go down the road of ideas that have been proven to not work, why not go all in on stupid?

I believe that is happening now.

 

[armoredman]

If it were a Glock clone it would be a whole lot more believable, but a 1911? There are lots of those produced by fully equipped manufacturers that don’t work so the idea that Junior whipped up one in his garage is hard to swallow.

I’ve never seen a polymer 80% 1911. Is anyone making them? Otherwise this kid had to mill and drill metal. And he had to source and pay for all the parts. I smell a rat, or at least bad faith reporting.

Not a poly 1911, but Defense Distributed did sell a 1911 jig and an 80% lower for the Ghost Gunner lathe, IIRC.

 

[fireside44]

"Ghost gun". I get awestruck with fear and terror when I hear those two words. Cold sweats. Hand tremors.

If it's not traceable how do I know it wasn't planted by an authority figure or staged for a political agenda? When dealing with untruthful persons and orgs, to correctly ascertain the actual truth, one must all times assume everything they say is untruthful. A simple "fake news" suffices for me to dismiss the entire story since none of the facts are straight. Plus, it's California so I don't care honestly.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Shocker. That's very convenient for them.

Could be why his weapon had a malfunction after the first shot.

Don't all 1911s jam after the first shot?

Bwahahahahahahah LOL ooooh burn.

 

[buck460XVR]

Murder is illegal.
Bringing a firearm to school is illegal
Possessing a handgun under the age of 21 is illegal

Sure add more laws that get broken. Makes perfect sense.

While I completely agree with most of the above, while I believe in most states it's illegal to purchase a handgun under the age of 21, I think the age of possession is 18.

 

[bersaguy]

There's a timeline that nobody's talking about in the coverage of this story. The kid's dad was an alcoholic, died of a heart attack like two years ago. Not long before, his mother sued for custody, and not long before that, the dad had been arrested on a domestic violence charge. I am assuming that's when he had all his registered guns confiscated by the police. So turn back the clock a bit, we have a 12-13 year old kid with an active alcoholic dad, parents fighting, police involved, and then the dad suddenly dies. This doesn't sound like the makings of a well adjusted, stable human being. My question is, the father passed two years ago...why did the mother still have his guns in the house? Were they the mother's guns? Were they returned by the police after the father passed? Did the boy receive any counseling after his fathers passing or during the ordeal with his parents? Were the guns being stored according to CA law? Soooooo many questions that are so much more relevant than whether or not the gun used in the attack was serialized.

 

[HPCadm17]

There's a timeline that nobody's talking about in the coverage of this story. The kid's dad was an alcoholic, died of a heart and, attack like two years ago. Not long before, his mother sued for custody, and not long before that, the dad had been arrested on a domestic violence charge. I am assuming that's when he had all his registered guns confiscated by the police. So turn back the clock a bit, we have a 12-13 year old kid with an active alcoholic dad, parents fighting, police involved, and then the dad suddenly dies. This doesn't sound like the makings of a well adjusted, stable human being. My question is, the father passed two years ago...why did the mother still have his guns in the house? Were they the mother's guns? Were they returned by the police after the father passed? Did the boy receive any counseling after his fathers passing or during the ordeal with his parents? Were the guns being stored according to CA law? Soooooo many questions that are so much more relevant than whether or not the gun used in the attack was serialized.

Every one of these shooters is the product of a complex combination of factors coalescing to form the perfect storm. Any one of these factors being different may not prevent incident, maybe just change the way it occurs. The most influential factors are those that affect the individual's mental state. Access to a firearm is not likely to alter a killer's state of mind, but combined with that state of mind presents an opportunity. What the anti's, the drive-by media, and those incapable of deep thought get wrong is that the state of mind is the problem. Millions of people have access to firearms and will never shoot another human being. Everyone agrees that unstable, violent people should not have access to deadly weapons, but if we want to prevent these incidents from occurring, we need to concentrate on the factors that influence a killer's mental state. I try to reason this way with my liberal family members, and while most will understand, the younger ones want to hold onto their emotional conditioning at all costs, absolve the individual from responsibility lest they stigmatize people with emotional problems, and just ban the scary inanimate object.

Emotional manipulation is a powerful tool to influence behavior and thought. Teenagers are also skilled in this manipulation, and can be adept at hiding their true mental state from friends and family members who want to help them. It is important that these youth work with professionals who are skilled in cutting through the barrier and getting to the heart of the matter in order to help the young person cope with their trauma. I think that too often we take things at face value and don't take enough interest to dig deeper to discover what's really going on inside their minds. It takes effort, and perhaps people are afraid of what they'll find, but if it's not dealt with early on it could be too late.

 

[bdickens]

It is interesting to hear from all sorts of self proclaimed experts in the field. “More is unknown about ghost guns than known,” said Nick Suplina, managing director for law and policy at gun safety advocacy group Everytown. Apparently these things are cheap, easy to make, and legal. Clearly, something must be done. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-light-on-murky-ghost-gun-world-idUSKBN1XW1AL Reuters apparently dials up these clowns for information when the BATFE won't return their calls. I suspect no calls were placed to NRA or GOA. No attempt at even handed treatment.

What passes for "journalists" these days just amazes me. If you're looking for information about firearms, why wouldn't you talk to - oh, I don't know - experts in the subject.

 

[LaneP]

A "gun safety advocacy group". Uh yup, nuff said.

 

[bdickens]

I thought the NRA was a gun safety advocacy group. I guess all their gun safety programs had me fooled.

 

[larryh1108]

I thought the NRA was considered a terrorist group?

 

[bdickens]

Only in San Fran Freako.

 

[Telekinesis]

While I completely agree with most of the above, while I believe in most states it's illegal to purchase a handgun under the age of 21, I think the age of possession is 18.

Sort of. Per federal law, age of possession is 18, and transfer of a pistol from a FFL is 21. There isn’t a prohibition on the “purchase” of a firearm, so as long as someone is 18 they can purchase or otherwise receive a gun from anyone except a dealer (until they turn 21).

Most states that I have looked into actually mirror federal law and set 18 as the age of possession. California is not most states though and I can’t really speak to their age requirements.

 

[FlSwampRat]

The linked article says no one knows where the gun came from and that there were other firearms(with serial numbers) in the kid's home. So whether or not having a serial number would have mattered, is a moot point. At 16, the shooter was already prohibited from carrying that handgun, yet that did not stop him.

Illegal for him to have, illegal for him to shoot people... but, oh, gosh, no serial numbers???

Sounds like up to the shooting he was a pretty good kid.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play"

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Illegal for him to have, illegal for him to shoot people... but, oh, gosh, no serial numbers???

You make a good case, however, the serial numbers have never been about preventing a crime-they were always about investigating a crime.

So, in this case, if the gun had had a s/n, they've be able to find the first person who bought it from an FFL. Then they could go ask that person about how their gun was used in a crime. And that person would say, I sold it for cash 2 years ago, and that would be the end of their trail.

Besides, if a criminal wants a gun with no s/n, wouldn't it be much easier, cheaper, and faster to just take a die grinder to the receiver and grind the s/n away?

 

[old lady new shooter]

And WHAT, pray tell, did the absence of any serial numbers have to do with the criminal act itself? In what way could their presence have possibly altered the outcome?

Anybody here have any answer other than "nothing" which can be quantifiably supported?

I will guess that the anti position is similar to what the sheriff quoted in the article said, i.e.since anybody can buy gun parts (Is this true?) then minors, felons, adjudicated mentally ill, etc ( = prohibited persons) can obtain guns without going through a dealer.

 

[old lady new shooter]

CA has had such a law for the 80% lowers/receivers "ghost guns" on the books since 2016, which became effective Jan 1 of this year ('19).

This is the actual law (linked below), which lists the requirements for anyone in lawful possession of one by July 1, 2018 to have it registered with DOJ and serialized with a DOJ unique serial number or other mark of identification. The time requirement listed is by Jan 1, 2019. The owner can't transfer it to another person, either.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=29180.

Lots of laws were in effect at the time of the tragic shooting at that school.

I recently became aware of a case where someone was being charged for a violation of this "ghost gun" section.

If the firearm is manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic, 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel shall be embedded within the plastic

3.7 ounces? To put a serial number on? 3.7 ounces is not an inconsequential change to the weight of the weapon if we are talking about a handgun...