The Remington R51, Explained

[445gsd]

Latest rumor from the R51 forum - claiming R51s now not due out until 2nd quarter of 2015. Goes on to state refunds being given, or R1s in replacement.

"I called Remington again today and found out more information. Production lines have not been started up as they have not yet moved into their new facility. That move and restart isn't expected until the 2nd Quarter of next year. Options are: 1) Continue waiting for the Gen 2 R51, extra mags & Pelican case as promised until April, May, June, maybe???; 2) Process a refund.; or 3) call them and let them give you, brand new in box, a 1911-R1 base model and call it even. (About $210 more value than the R51). I opted to get the 1911. She asked me if I wanted 2 of them since I had 2 R51s. I said to send me one for now for the one I sent in already. I need to get the other one back from my son, send it in, and maybe haggle with them for a good booster stock of ammunition. If not, I'll get another 1911, making it 3 1911s in my safe. Guess you can't have too many 1911s. Heh-heh. Anyway, you pick the FFL dealer you want the 1911 shipped to and have them fax in a copy of their license with the information Remington gives you. Then, in about two weeks, you'll have your new 1911 R1. Remington will pay the FFL transfer fee.
The way I see it, this is a pretty generous deal, especially since I've been looking to buy a 1911-R1 anyway. This is the full size Government Model 80 style w/ 5" barrel, blued finish w/ fine-checkered American walnut grips. Order (item) number is 96323 in the Remington catalog. It comes with 2 standard 7 round magazines, barrel bushing tool, lock, and it's fitted green case as it would come if you purchased one new. If you're into 1911s, this is a sweet deal."

 

[JRH6856]

Decisions, decisions. If they were offering a choice of govt or commander, the R1 choice would be easy. As it is, I may just take the R1, sell it, and use the money for something more concealable. I could just wait for the new R51 and buy another if I like what they've done. If the price point is the same, I'll come out ahead either way.

 

[F-111 John]

Remington seems to have scrubbed all mention of the R51 from their website. There isn't even a link in the press releases anymore to the announcement of the exchange program.

If you Google it, you can still find the press release, but it's no longer in the list of 2014 press releases.

 

[lincen]

I called Remington today to get the R1 in exchange for my returned R51, can you believe it, their computer system was down.

 

[Gun Master]

1911 R-1 for R51, and Computer is Down?

I called Remington today to get the R1 in exchange for my returned R51, can you believe it, their computer system was down.

Uh-huh.

 

[barnbwt]

"Latest rumor"
I love being right. "This October" to "sometime next quarter, maybe." Sounds exactly like a flaky contractor-grifter stringing you along as long as he can, that it does. I'll say it again; if your gun is such that you won't shoot it, or it's at Remington already, just go ahead and take what they'll give you. It's all you'll get in any reasonable time frame. Heck, you could probably take the refund of the R51, invest it in something intelligent, and buy the more expensive R1 by the time the replacements come out. To say nothing of the hair-pulling you'd save yourself.

"Remington seems to have scrubbed all mention of the R51 from their website."
Why do people keep thinking this is news? Even when it wasn't six months old. Remington never had more than a hastily erected product page on their website. Keeping in mind that the site is basically ad-space for Remington, why would they waste time advertising a pistol they aren't even selling (let alone one that is an embarrassment?) The fact Remington is doing the exchange thingie is far more damning of their confidence in the pistol; that actually costs them money, unlike some stupid web promo

But gun guys love a good cover up conspiracy, I suppose (it's such a conspiracy that every Remington thread about anything inevitably brings up the R51 --what a cover up!)

"I called Remington today to get the R1 in exchange for my returned R51, can you believe it, their computer system was down."
Probably Y2K . All the old IT guys that knew how to run the Commodore 64's are retiring/dying off

TCB

 

[JRH6856]

When I called it was apparently up. I already had a service number and return kit from when I called back in April (I never used it because it became apparent that if I did, they would have my gun and I would have nothing). He looked up the number, said it was still in effect and to go ahead and send the gun in followed by a fax from my FFL. Once they have the R51 in house and the FFL on file, I get to call them back and request the exchange. still making up my mind....

...but I may just wait until someone actually has an R1 in exchange just to be sure they are actually doing it.

 

[1SOW]

JRH6856, will you give me the Rem. number you called?

 

[JRH6856]

JRH6856, will you give me the Rem. number you called?

The main corporate number 800-439-9700 Voicemail options 4,3,2

 

[JohnnyBravo]

This is a real shame.

That gun had a lot of potential had Remington done it right.

 

[Gun Master]

R51 & Remington Creditability

I think all the aforementioned, requires that us, the consumers, are due an open and transparent explanation, apology, and REAL remedy for the agregious scheme, that they have foisted on the American Public.

 

[JRH6856]

I think all the aforementioned, requires that us, the consumers, are due an open and transparent explanation, apology, and REAL remedy for the agregious scheme, that they have foisted on the American Public.

Well, that's a nice thought, but I don't see that any such transparency is required or due. It would be nice, but the offer of replacement, full refund, or exchange for an item of greater value pretty much relieves them of having to explain so ROC may or may not see it as necessary. It just depends on how much the hit in consumer confidence affects their bottom line.

IF there even is such a hit. Not that many people bought R51s and a vastly greater number are not even aware it ever existed. By saying nothing and scrubbing the website, ROC has done a pretty good job of damage control. The 700 trigger recall seems to be the bigger issue with the majority of the gun world.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

MidwayUSA has the CrimsonTrace Laserguard on clearance for $199.00 + free shipping for those of you who have one that works. NFI



I still think it's a cool looking little gun.

 

[agtman]

The Remington 51, Explained

"Explained" in one word: junk.

 

[mboylan]

This is a real shame.

That gun had a lot of potential had Remington done it right.

Don't know about that. The Shield is just a much better and more practical weapon.

 

[Gun Master]

R51 Debacle

Well, that's a nice thought, but I don't see that any such transparency is required or due. It would be nice, but the offer of replacement, full refund, or exchange for an item of greater value pretty much relieves them of having to explain so ROC may or may not see it as necessary. It just depends on how much the hit in consumer confidence affects their bottom line.

IF there even is such a hit. Not that many people bought R51s and a vastly greater number are not even aware it ever existed. By saying nothing and scrubbing the website, ROC has done a pretty good job of damage control. The 700 trigger recall seems to be the bigger issue with the majority of the gun world.

Yeah, I agree that getting an R1 for an R51 price is a good deal !
Just don't effectively "cancel it out" by saying, "the computer is down", or "I'm sorry that number is busy. Could you call later, or leave a message ?"

 

[lincen]

Bought a new M&P Shield yesterday since I did accept the Remington R1 in trade for my R51. My R51 was a great shooting handgun and I will miss it. Sent it back because of the proposed October re-production date. If they every do release another version of this gun I will probably buy it.

 

[JRH6856]

Yeah, I agree that getting an R1 for an R51 price is a good deal !
Just don't effectively "cancel it out" by saying, "the computer is down", or "I'm sorry that number is busy. Could you call later, or leave a message ?"

Yes, cancelling it out by further delay would be 'aggravating' to put it mildly. ROC CS emphasized that I needed to return the R51 before they could start procesing the exchange. I suggested taking the R51 to my FFL and when he received the R1, he would send in the R51. You know, just in case they changed their policy again. But they wouldn't go for it so I'm still going to wait until I hear someone has an R1 in hand.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Don't know about that. The Shield is just a much better and more practical weapon.

I own, shoot, and carry, two Shields, one in 9mm and one in .40 SW and I agree they are fine weapons. In my opinion the R51 design had the potential to be every bit the carry gun the Shield is had Remington delivered on quality.

I'm also thinking Crimson Trace is really unhappy with Remington after going to all the trouble to tool up for that laser.

 

[barnbwt]

"MidwayUSA has the CrimsonTrace Laserguard on clearance for $199.00 + free shipping for those of you who have one that works. NFI"
There's a guy on Gunbroker asking 150$ (which is still too dang much for a Happy Meal Toy and a laser pointer ).

""Explained" in one word: junk."
Wow. You know, that's really, really, really, really, really helpful. And thoughtful.

"The Shield is just a much better and more practical weapon."
As executed, yep. I do think the R51 had some fantastic potential, and still does; we'll just have to wait for patents to expire and Taurus to pick it up, now. If you haven't actually held one, the guns have a legitimately narrow/slim grip that is still very comfortable, and the grip length is a bit longer than is usually seen for 9mm/40cal compact handguns (it's obviously sized for an expect 45acp version that likely will never be). For a guy like me with long first digits on their fingers, it's very nice to have a longer grip (I like 7.62x25 handgun grips and my five-seven for the same reason). The gun also had some unique advantages stemming from both the fixed barrel and Pedersen action that aren't really seen elsewhere (light spring, suppression, narrow vertical profile, reduced recoil, and in my case, very fast recovery times between shots due to a slightly different recoil impulse than from something more traditional like my High Power).

The R51 also manages to not get credit for being one of very few factory offerings out there today with great attention paid to rounding off all sharp or snag-prone edges. Something that really hasn't been seen in gun design since the fifties, but which has obvious utility for carry pieces. Hopefully other makers take notice of this one area where Remington actually did do a very thorough and competent job of streamlining the gun for carry.

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

"CS emphasized that I needed to return the R51 before they could start procesing the exchange."
'I would gladly give you an R1 Tuesday, for an R51 today...'

"I suggested taking the R51 to my FFL and when he received the R1, he would send in the R51."
You know, a third party intermediary --because Remington cannot be trusted

"But they wouldn't go for it so I'm still going to wait until I hear someone has an R1 in hand."
Very, very good call. I said (what is it, now?) six months ago that Remington would stretch this out, and delay, and promise, and string people along without true-value resolution as long as possible. They won't outright deny a trade or refund (that would invite lawsuits), and they can't yet say they won't abandon the product (that would invite a class-action lawsuit), but they can require the customer to make all the requests, and take their sweet time as well. Every quarter Remington doesn't actually deliver on their promises is another quarter where the R51 refund doesn't show up on the books.

"I'm also thinking Crimson Trace is really unhappy with Remington after going to all the trouble to tool up for that laser."
I honestly wonder if that screw-over (Galco also made up holsters ahead of the release for a highly touted coordinated marketing effort) won't get Remington blacklisted by the accessories industry. Normally I'd think that Green has such huge market share that they couldn't be shunned, but Remington actually makes so many accessories under other brands they are practically a one stop shop. Why would you stick your neck out to work with a shady character who brought the ceiling down on his previous partners, while at the same time also directly competing with you through a different operation?

TCB

 

[JRH6856]

DeSantis and several others also made holsters for the R51. But its not a great loss. If they aren't formed, they fit several other guns, and the ones that are formed can probably be reformed. Beretta is reintroducing the 84 and 85 which will fit.

 

[1SOW]

Thanks JRH.
I for one thought highly of this pistol's, size, weight, and design. It carried very very comfortably for me. The grip was big enough to hold securely and thin enough to conceal comfortably. It fired high velocity 9mm rds with no concerns about recoil. It was easy to shoot fast and accurately (barring the manufacturing screw-ups). .
As said above, it was also really de-horned very well. The sights were actually very functional.

I'm leaning toward taking the refund and selling my two fully functional R-51 mags.
I won't be trusting Remington again to do the right thing--ever.

The problem with the initial R-51 build was one thing. The truth from the first contact, might have made a difference. The deceit and outright lies are not acceptable. Remington has nothing I need, and they won't get anything I have---especially trust.

I honestly doubt very much that sending "another" copy of my receipt will produce a full refund any time in the near future. If it does, the surprise won't offset the disappointment and mistrust with that company or any of it's subsidiaries.

 

[lincen]

barnbwt you always seem to find the right words.....

"The gun also had some unique advantages stemming from both the fixed barrel and Pedersen action that aren't really seen elsewhere (light spring, suppression, narrow vertical profile, reduced recoil, and in my case, very fast recovery times between shots due to a slightly different recoil impulse than from something more traditional,"

That is why I would still buy another R51 or whatever if it had the Pedersen action and similar size and shape. Many folks never had the chance to shoot the R51 but still put it down. I could never defend Remington on this thing but the Pedersen action has found some new fans for sure.

 

[JRH6856]

I for one thought highly of this pistol's, size, weight, and design. It carried very very comfortably for me. The grip was big enough to hold securely and thin enough to conceal comfortably. It fired high velocity 9mm rds with no concerns about recoil. It was easy to shoot fast and accurately (barring the manufacturing screw-ups). .
As said above, it was also really de-horned very well. The sights were actually very functional.

The gun also had some unique advantages stemming from both the fixed barrel and Pedersen action that aren't really seen elsewhere (light spring, suppression, narrow vertical profile, reduced recoil, and in my case, very fast recovery times between shots due to a slightly different recoil impulse than from something more traditional,

That is why I would still buy another R51 or whatever if it had the Pedersen action and similar size and shape. Many folks never had the chance to shoot the R51 but still put it down. I could never defend Remington on this thing but the Pedersen action has found some new fans for sure.

These are my thoughts exactly. The action was rough inititially but has smoothed our considerably with use and with ammo that chambers properly, I've had no failures. The tight chamber limiting the choice of ammo is my only remaining complaint, and if ROC doesn't start sending out R1s I won't mind keeping the R51.

The only reason I am considering the exchange is the extra value. I figure I can then sell either one of my 1911's for more than I paid for the R1 and come out ahead. And if ROC does release an improved R51, it will probably still be at the same price point so I can buy one of those if I want an still be ahead. Meanwhile, I'm not lacking for an EDCs so i can afford to wait and see what ROC actually does.