The Return of "Tolerable Carnageâ€

[Jim March]

The total population of the area we now know as the core of Israel (not counting the West Bank and Gaza) was *extremely* low when the Jews started moving in. The incoming Jews caused an economic boom in the area, which attracted Arab and other types of Islamic immigrants from 1920ish clean through to 1948.

Most of the "Palestinians" are no such thing, it's a political term more than anything else. They're what's left of the morons that decided to kill off every Jew circa '48. They failed, and have been whining about being "abused" ever since. Israel did NOT throw all the Arabs out of their homes, and in fact there are millions of Israeli citizens of Arab descent, practicing Islam, living in peace in the core of Israel proper.

As a culture, the "Palestinians" are flat-out disgusting. Their level of "honor killings" of women is the highest in the Arab OR Islamic worlds. Note that the "honor killings" are NOT an "Islamic practice" at all, it's based on extreme interpretations of old Arab cultural trends. The Arab culture had a hang-up about female sexuality going WAY back before Islam; Mohammed tried to put a lid on most of the crap that went on but some of it has crept back.

That's NOT an excuse for Israel to abuse the Palestinians, and the civil rights violations against them has GOT to stop, if only to "clarify the issue".

But if they really want to make it clear...they're liable to end up exterminated.

 

[TallPine]

Thanks Jim - people here listen when YOU say something

 

[2dogs]

Thanks for all the replies to this thread folks.

Just a thought here- why in all of the years that the Palestinians have been fighting for their "cause" haven't they turned this around- what if they had said alright, we are going to live in peace and harmony with you for 1 year- no bombings, no killings- after which we would like some of the settlements removed, or we'd like a portion of the West Bank for Palestinians only.

Why has their only recourse ever been to murder? Not once that I can remeber have they tried another way, or have THEY offered peace for land.

The reason has to be what they have stated over and over again- they do not want peace, they do not want to live side by side with Israel, they want to KILL ALL JEWS and they want to push Israel into the sea. They could not possibly make it any clearer.

And yet our government keeps playing this game- Oslo, the "road map"- this is not what Palestinians want- at least their leaders and the zealots do not want it, and their people go along with it.

There comes a point where you say that's it- and I think that time has come- no more games, no more offers, no more proposals and "road maps" and BS. You had too many chances and you blew them all.

 

[dustind]

Do you guys think its most of Palestine vs Israel, or just some isolated groups? Do the majority of the Palestinians want peace or war, in your opinion. I am still pondering the "level a city" idea. It was a good idea in WW2 vs Japan since we were at war with a country, and it worked to save lives on both sides. I would imagine if they did that to Palestine, terrorism would go through the roof from many countries, and it would be open war for the next few decades regardless of how much firepower was used. It is already rocks vs guns, and they have not given up.

The analogies of the United States taking land it should not have does not make sense, two wrongs do not make a right. The other examples also happened so long ago that everyone is dead, if the victims were alive they would be entitled to whatever was taken from them. What happened to the Indians, and others was wrong then, and now.

Jim March, I guess I stand corrected on a few things.

Thumper I heard "sky tinted water/s" same thing I guess.

 

[Jim March]

Both politically and culturally, Palestine does NOT have a *first* amendment. Anybody speaking out against the violence tends to get strung up from the nearest lamp-post riddled with bullets with a sign saying "collaborator with Israel" hanging off of one toe.

Basically, yes, there's a faction that's against violence all right, but they've been brutally suppressed. Hamas and the rest of the loonies have as many murders of Palestinians to their "credit" as they do Israelis.

Then there's the propaganda - the Islamic "schools" for the kids are financed by Saudis and teach everything from the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to the "real recipe for Passover dinner" (ingredients include Arab babies).

Between the propaganda and the bullets, there's no rational Palestinian political voice outside of VERY closed doors, and even that ain't common.

 

[Apple a Day]

I am sure that there is a large segment of the Palestinian population which is sick and tired of getting blown up and hassled by the Israelis and by their own people. Unfortunately, I think, this segment of their population equates to our own "sheeple". They are the folks who aren't using guns and bombs. They are, with reason, scared of the extremists who do have guns and bombs and have no compunction about using them on whomever they decide doesn't fit with their idea of the world.
As long as the nuts are running around stirring things up then there will be war. No one is willing to stand up to the extremists and have an all-out civil war, so they sit back and suffer slowly. Somehow that reminds me of the boiling from analogy. The Palestinians are willing to take casualties in dribs and drabs which end up costing them more, gets messier than one big spring cleaning.

 

[2dogs]

Israel army order:
'Wipe out' Hamas
Directed to 'use any means necessary' to destroy leadership, infrastructure

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: June 12, 2003
11:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

(excerpt)

Israel's army has been ordered to "completely wipe out" the Palestinian Islamic terrorist group Hamas, according to Israeli army radio.

The order, directing the army to use "whatever means necessary," comes one day after a suicide bomber tied to Hamas killed 17 and wounded 70 in an attack on a Jerusalem bus, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation said.


No Hamas leader is safe, said Israeli Internal Security Minister Tzachi Hanegbi.

The targets are the organization's infrastructure and its leadership, "from the lowliest member to Sheik Ahmad Yassin," the Hamas spiritual guide, ABC reported.

The directive was issued after Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz met with the army's top command after yesterday's attack.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

FOX News is reporting this also. I hope the Israelis are serious and successful. While they're at it, go after Hezbollah and the rest. Once they are out of the way maybe decent folks can start thinking peace.

 

[Sodbuster]

The targets are the organization's infrastructure and its leadership

We'll be hearing about the concern Dubya and Powell have about this. This could derail the road map. The BushMan wouldn't do something like this, attacking leaders of a terrorist group that were responsible for murdering some citizens of your country. Come on George, let's hear you open your mouth again like you did a couple days ago after Israel's retaliation for the latest bombing. What a worthless hypocrite.

 

[Waitone]

I was concerned to hear the same kind of bleeting coming out of Powell and Bush as I heard cout of Albright and Clinton. "Give peace a chance, I deplore. . . , Stop the killing. . . .", and other sorts of horse puckey.

One difference remains that has not been discussed. While Albright and Clinton would be happy to limit its participation to words and various sorts of bleeting, Bush is not limited to words.

It is perfectly consistent for Bush to mouth the politically correct bleets and be working under the table to do what he an any other rational human knows what has to be done. If I was Hamas, Islamic Jihad, or whatever I'd not be comforted with Bush's PC bleets.

 

[Keith]

Dustin,

You really need to get some information on the situation.

Palestinians (Arabs) inside of Isreal have full rights. There are Arab members in the Israeli Knesset (Congress), etc.

Since the Oslo Accords, the Palestinian side is ruled by the Palestinian Authority (Arafat), NOT Israel. The incursions by the Israeli military are in response to the almost constant attacks by Palesinians against Israeli civilians. The Israeli army goes in, hits some terrorist targets and then leaves.

The Israeli's (by and large) acted honorably and with great restraint.

There is no economy on the Palestinian side because the billions in aid dumped on them for the last 40 years is all sucked up by Arafat and his cronies. This is not only motivated by greed, but by political considerations - if Arafat allowed the money to be used for economic infrastructure, the misery of the Palestinians would no longer be a political tool.

In the waning days of the Clinton administration, Arafat was offered the entire enchilada - the West Bank, Gaza, half of Jerusalem and corridors connecting it all. He turned it all down... why? Because without a never-ending war the Palestinians would have no use for Arafat. He'd be replaced by some reasonable person who (without a doubt) would soon toss Yasser in jail for his theft of tens of billions of dollars in UN aid.

Israeli governments come and go. US governments come and go. Arafat is always there, stirring the pot and turning down every offer of peace and nationhood that comes his way. When Arafat dies, peace will come - not before.

Keith

 

[NeverAgain26]

Hamas asked all foreigners and tourists to leave Israel.

Sorry, Hamas guys, I'm coming there in 2 weeks with my family and we are staying for close to 3 weeks. We will be all over the place, touring from North to South with a week n Jerusalem.

I feel bad I cannot be carrying, but I'll be damned if we are staying home.

NA26

 

[2dogs]

I feel bad I cannot be carrying

NeverAgain26

You mean you can in NJ?

Anyway, good luck to you- stay safe.

 

[NeverAgain26]

I am working on carrying in N.J. and will now something in late summer.

Thanks and I'll check in from Israel.

NA26

 

[Thundercleese]

RE Jim :

To quote Larry Miller

"Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five million Jews.

Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals."

 

[Sergeant Bob]

I am sure that there is a large segment of the Palestinian population which is sick and tired of getting blown up and hassled by the Israelis and by their own people. Unfortunately, I think, this segment of their population equates to our own "sheeple". They are the folks who aren't using guns and bombs. They are, with reason, scared of the extremists who do have guns and bombs and have no compunction about using them on whomever they decide doesn't fit with their idea of the world.

This thing has been going on so long that I suspect most of them are born into hating Isreal. It's all they've ever known. It's a part of their belief system. Expecting them to change that view is like expecting a devout Christian to stop believing in G-d. No amount of land or money is ever going to change that. It's kind of like the Hatfields and McCoy's. After a few generations of the feud, they couldn't even remember why they hated each other. Just that they did.