Things Not to Live By

[bdickens]

I am laughing. Thank you. Wait.......do I have to send you a photo of me laughing?

Three cites from peer reviewed journals will be good enough.

 

[Kleanbore]

As a researcher and academic, you are also no doubt aware that some things are considered "common knowledge" and do not require a citation.

I do not see how that applies to the discussion.

 

[bdickens]

[ Redacted]

 

[Kleanbore]

The comment about articles saying that there are statements (that are true) to the effect that there are persons without training who have defended themselves was poorly framed.

My intent was to criticize its being parroted whenever training is recommended.

Training in gun-handling and shooting is a very good thing. Training in defensive shooting can prove invaluable.

I do not believe in requiring either as a prerequisite for possessing a firearm--or for concealed carry, for that matter.

I would rephrase it as follows:

• The fact that many citizens have successfully defended themselves with firearms indicates that investing in quality defensive training should not be given high priority.

...or something to that effect.

It is, of course a phrase to not live by.

 

[Terry G]

I used to believe this crap. I am currently going through a VA claim for my hearing. As part of my case I went to an independent audiologist who doesn't know my history (I was a 13B Field Artillery Cannon Crewman). For a second opinion to give the VA.

We went through the hearing and tinnitus test and he sat me down to show me the results and pointed on the chart to a dip that he calls a hearing notch.

He explained to me very clearly and very thoroughly that the notch was caused by noise exposure. He said that in normal hearing loss the curve just kind of goes down gradually but my case for it to go down, drop off and then come right back up indicates noise exposure.

He also told me that it is permanent and progressive. Which means that I will eventually become deaf.

I'm sitting here typing this and my ears are ringing so loud it hurts. I was actually sitting at work one day when a fault alarm sounded on the fire alarm control panel. After a minute my coworker looked at me and asked "Do you not hear that alarm?" I told him I thought is was my tinnitus. (Tru story bro).

I can't enjoy music, I can't use a phone, My TV is set to Closed Caption by default. My wife has given up on repeating herself to me.

If anybody tells you that auditory exclusion you protect your hearing they're full of it.

Wear your damn hearing protection. Wear your damn hearing protection. Wear your damn hearing protection

Don't give up. I don't know for a fact the VA routinely denies hearing loss claims, but they certainly deny most of them. If they deny, appeal through your Veteran's Service Officer. Furnish the date's when you used live fire and where you were, If you had those stupid, useless ear pugs they gave you, note that. They denied me the first time (11B20 RVN 69) and I gave them dates or approximate dates, and the disability was granted. I did not need a second opinion. Remember the Health Care Providers at the VA have NOTHING to do with your claim. It's out of their hands. Anyone who think hearing loss is minor is completely wrong. The hearing aids provided by the VA are top notch, but they can't restore your hearing. Any kind of gathering is pretty much a loss because background noise is amplified. Any conversation is blocked out. Music is pretty much gone. TV without CC is gone too. It's not like losing a limb, but quality of life is reduced. NOBODY shoot's on my home range without hearing and eye protection
, and I don't mean cheap muff's and sunglasses. End of Sermon.

 

[Jammersix]

Feel free to peruse the research, but I'm not gonna do your work for you.

Not my claim, it's your claim.

And now it's just your opinion, (which you're completely entitled to) not fact.

 

[Dibbs]

Any facts to back that up?

Here we go, FACTS:
1. Once a glock, or one of it's clones, has a round chambered, it is cocked. It can't be uncocked, without
dropping the mag, racking the slide, to clear the chamber, then dry firing the firearm.
2. The striker in a glock, or one of it's copies, is enclosed, and while you should realize it's cocked, there's no way to
verify, monitor, or change it's position, while the firearm is loaded.
3. There is no external safety, on a glock., save the "trigger safety". (Kind of like having the accelerator pedal welded to the brake,
wouldn't you agree ?{I guess not} )
4. GLOCK LEG SYNDROME, (I guess you may have to Bing or Google it) is a ND/AD syndrome specifically named after the brand name "glock".

Now, maybe I'm incorrect, sir, but I firmly believe these all fall under the category, of the term you requested, "facts".

 

[Dibbs]

I've lost track...have we covered "racking a 12 gauge pump shotgun will scare the bad guys away" trope yet?

I always wondered about this one, let's see, "you're always supposed to keep a round in the chamber", we've been beaten to death, with that one, but if it's a pump
shotgun, or a lever gun, somebody leaves the chamber empty, so they can rack the gun for dramatic effect?
Or do they just pump a loaded round out, onto the ground, on the assumption the bad guys have good hearing?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I always wondered about this one, let's see, "you're always supposed to keep a round in the chamber", we've been beaten to death, with that one, but if it's a pump
shotgun, or a lever gun, somebody leaves the chamber empty, so they can rack the gun for dramatic effect?
Or do they just pump a loaded round out, onto the ground, on the assumption the bad guys have good hearing?

It's a dramatic movie thing. The gun is loaded, with a round in the chamber. Or maybe not. Either way, the gun will require a dramatic clambering move at odd times and will always go "bang" when the trigger is pulled, regardless.

Oh... and never run out of ammo until a plot complication requires it.

That's how we KNOW racking the gun will scare off the bad guy!

 

[Trunk Monkey]

but if it's a pump shotgun, or a lever gun, somebody leaves the chamber empty, so they can rack the gun for dramatic effect?

I'm not sure if you're advocating for or against that practice but doing anything with a gun "for dramatic effect" is stupid.

 

[Old Dog]

^ wise words. I once purposely unsnapped by holster's thumb break for "dramatic effect" in front of a crowd after a large gentleman threatened me with serious bodily harm if I attempted to apprehend him … he politely informed me that, should I actually draw my pistol, he would place it in a dark nether region of my body. My partner and I meekly retreated back to our vehicle and called in the cavalry … One either presents one's firearm with serious intent, or one falls back on the verbal judo and hopes backup is close …

 

[Kleanbore]

Once a glock, or one of it's clones, has a round chambered, it is cocked.

Not really. It is partially cocked. Pulling the trigger completes the action.

 

[Kleanbore]

Three more:

• I don't live in a war zone. --as a reason for not carrying a firearm with a particular capacity
• A single punch can kill. --as justification for shooting someone who threatens to punch the actor
• I make my living with my truck and the tools in it. --as justification to use deadly force to protect property.

 

[boom boom]

I always wondered about this one, let's see, "you're always supposed to keep a round in the chamber", we've been beaten to death, with that one, but if it's a pump
shotgun, or a lever gun, somebody leaves the chamber empty, so they can rack the gun for dramatic effect?
Or do they just pump a loaded round out, onto the ground, on the assumption the bad guys have good hearing?

Some of those old shotguns and rifles were not drop safe so keeping the chamber in what John Farnam called Loader ready (from semi-recoiless rifles) is prudent.

 

[Offhand McFlan]

I suspect he was fiddling with his firearm. It is not a toy.

I was more thinking that he was a little overweight, and was also so in love with his firearm he refused to take it off him and put it under the seat or in the compartment for the ride. then when he heaved his big butt around a few times the safety got clicked off and the trigger got pulled. or maybe it was just uncomfortable and he was trying to adjust it in the car... which would be almost exactly the scenario that you are citing anyway.

Here's one for ya:
One time I was at the range and as I was leaving I noticed that someone had dropped a snubby on the ground on their way back to the car, and then simply drove away! someone grabbed it and held on to it and called the cops who came and picked it up. They were cool officers and didn't care that people were blasting away while they were getting paperwork filled out right there by the bench rest. Wow somebody must have rightfully felt like a real idiot when he got a call later!

 

[Thibaut]

To this point, I have been worrying about this issue as I already have some hearing loss from other causes, but I am not going to be carrying around my wonderful electronic muffs wherever I go. I have seen in videos respected shooting experts wearing what appear to be small plastic fit-in-the-canal plugs on a string of the same material, in some cases while shooting guns I know to be VERY loud. Such ear pro could be worn inside the collar to be inconspicuous and if there are a couple of extra seconds available, donned. Can someone please give me more information about these? I.e. what are they actually called and what is the best brand?

You might be referring to something like the Howard Leight NRR Quiet Band plugs. I have no idea how good they are but hope that helps your research on the subject. I am curious about them, as well, olns

 

[GEM]

I always wondered about this one, let's see, "you're always supposed to keep a round in the chamber", we've been beaten to death, with that one, but if it's a pump
shotgun, or a lever gun, somebody leaves the chamber empty, so they can rack the gun for dramatic effect?
Or do they just pump a loaded round out, onto the ground, on the assumption the bad guys have good hearing?

Independent of the sound effect drama, people leave rifles and shotgun guns unchambered as they can be not drop safe.

 

[old lady new shooter]

You might be referring to something like the Howard Leight NRR Quiet Band plugs. I have no idea how good they are but hope that helps your research on the subject. I am curious about them, as well, olns

Thanks very much, I will check those out.

 

[Thibaut]

Thanks very much, I will check those out.

It is alleged.........that Hickok45 (Greg Kinman) wears them.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I believe I've seen him wearing this type of ear pro, did not know the brand, but Howard Leight is big in ear pro, so makes sense.

 

[Dibbs]

Not really. It is partially cocked. Pulling the trigger completes the action.

Yeah, see, that "half-cocked striker" claim sounds real good, but, apparently, neither the half-cocked striker, nor the trigger safety seem to
matter, when an errant piece of clothing, holster, pen, debris, or pocket hocket gets between the trigger guard and the bang switch.

 

[boom boom]

Another thing not to live by,
During a gunfight, no one ever looks at their sights so you should train to shoot that way. After all, the Israelis did it.

 

[Old Dog]

Here's a couple things constantly parroted as "truth" on the handgun forums which pertain directly to the tools used in strategy, tactics and training:

"Any quality [handgun that costs X dollars or more] should be reliable with any bullet weight or type of ammo used."

"A good pistol should be able to run right out of the box with any ammunition."

"Manufacturers that state their pistols require a break-in period with at least X-number of rounds [typically 200 to 500] are full of crap, guns do not require a "break-in."

Fact is, handguns, but specifically, auto-pistols are not always designed to operate at peak effectiveness with all bullet weights or bullet profiles, and the quality of the production ammunition or reloads -- as well as the magazines used --certainly does matter. Yet, some would have us believe that we can take our new ----- out of the box, load 'er up with whatever, strap 'er on and be instantly ready for our next gunfight.

 

[Dibbs]

Here's a couple things constantly parroted as "truth" on the handgun forums which pertain directly to the tools used in strategy, tactics and training:

"Any quality [handgun that costs X dollars or more] should be reliable with any bullet weight or type of ammo used."

"A good pistol should be able to run right out of the box with any ammunition."

"Manufacturers that state their pistols require a break-in period with at least X-number of rounds [typically 200 to 500] are full of crap, guns do not require a "break-in."

Fact is, handguns, but specifically, auto-pistols are not always designed to operate at peak effectiveness with all bullet weights or bullet profiles, and the quality of the production ammunition or reloads -- as well as the magazines used --certainly does matter. Yet, some would have us believe that we can take our new ----- out of the box, load 'er up with whatever, strap 'er on and be instantly ready for our next gunfight.

Anybody who's run a few auto-loaders, and buys a gun or two, on a regular basis, is aware that there usually is a break-in period, and/or some
tweaking, to get them to shoot right. But I bet I'm not the only one who loves it, when you get a gun that DOES run well, right out of the box.
I agree, IME, it's a strange gun, indeed, which doesn't run better with some specific type of ammo.

And, yeah, with what I've been thru, trying to get guns to run right, folks who just assume a gun's going to shoot, right out of the box, for no good reason, smh.
Shoot, right out of the box ? How about shoot right, ever?

 

[Kleanbore]

Here's another :

"On my property" -- in a discussion of the justification of the threat or use of deadly force.