THR Group Project - PISTOL - Advanced Reloading Concepts and Discussions

Yes 50cal you bring up some good points. I too want to get a good combination and just churn out rounds and shoot. Ah, but getting that good combination, that's the hard part. At this point it's ALL such a big learning stage for me. At some point I may say it's not worth the effort to worry/bother about all that, but I'm not there yet.
Your right, I should say I'm shooting a Walther PPQ with 5" barrel. I'm using a Lee classic turret press and Lee 4 die set. I have two powders, win 231 and CFE pistol and my best charges,so far, are 4.1 gr of 231 and 5.1 of CFE. I'm using a new RCBS powder measure with the small cylinder. It throws very good consistent measures. My brass is mostly federal that I have bought ammo and am reusing the cases. It has been reloaded maybe 2-3 times at most.
I used to shoot competitive archery and like this, when I miss I want to know whether it was me or the equipment.
 
I used to shoot competitive archery and like this, when I miss I want to know whether it was me or the equipment.

Cool. So if your focus is on the ammo, get yourself a good chronograph and have at it (a competitive archer should have one anyway - spine deflection, DW, KE, fps, even regulations... are all factors that benefit from one). You won't be able to be definitive about anything without one. Meanwhile, if you are pretty confident in what you observed, you have a new seating depth.

Cheers!
 
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Y'all take a break, I'm not in the mood to read everything and pass judgement.

One thought though, it takes two to tango, and if you don't like someone else's opinion, politely say you disagree, and post your own opinion.

It's the internet, not everything is gospel, not even close.

I'll look more closely later on. :)
 
Thanks Walkalong.

- OUT OF ROUND BULLET/TILTING OF BULLET DURING SEATING PRODUCE OUT OF SPEC ROUNDS

Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9898721#post9898721
otisrush said:
And if it rubs off on the bullet - then reduce the COL?
I not only drop the round in the chamber but also spin it side to side slightly to enhance the marking. If the bullet is hitting the start of rifling to prevent full chambering and/or the marking is rubbing off, then you need to decrease the OAL/COL until you can fully chamber the round and spin freely.

So - if it rubs off the case: Then taper crimp needs to be adjusted down so as to reduce mouth diameter?
Not really and also depends on several things: chamber size, out-of-round bullets, variation in case wall thickness and tilting of bullets during seating.

As rcmodel posted, I usually use no less than .376" taper crimp for .355" diameter jacketed/plated bullets. Some plated bullets are sized slightly larger than .355" as factory sizer wears and if not changed out frequently, could be sized .3555"-.356". So with some plated bullets, I will use .377" taper crimp so as to not cut into the thin copper plating.

Most SAAMI spec barrels will allow taper crimp up to .380" unless the bullets are out of round.

How can bullets be out of round? From manufacturing and/or from handling during shipping. With plated bullets, by the time copper plating is done and bullets tumble cleaned/polished, they could be out of round and many manufacturers double strike (push through size) to ensure roundness of plated bullets. And shipping companies/USPS will rough handle the bullets from tossing boxes to dropping boxes and the impact force will squish jacketed/plated bullets with softer lead/alloy core. So by the time you receive the bullets at your door, they could be out of round.

Out of round bullets will produce out of round finished rounds at the case neck. I experienced this with different brand bullets as bullet diameter measured with calipers will show oval shaped bullets instead of round (when I measure bullet diameter, I will measure at multiple locations not just one location).

How did I know that the out of round bullets was the problem and not the amount of taper crimp? Because verified round bullets did not produce out of round case necks and they chambered without rubbing the barrel. When I measured the rounds that did not fully chamber or rubbed the barrel, case neck measurements were different and pulled bullets were out of round.

Another thing that could produce out of round case necks is tilting of the bullet during seating. When I was in a hurry during one reloading session with Winchester 115 gr FMJ bullets, I saw noticeable bulging of case neck on one side only. Caliper measurements shows out of round case neck which was the result of tilting of the bullet during seating. After me slowing down and more carefully setting the bullet on flared case mouth, the one sided bulging was less of an issue.

But when I noticed the slight uneven bulging of case neck continue, I got curious and measured the case wall thickness. To my surprise, depending on headstamp, case wall thickness consistency varied quite a bit. They ranged from being thin on one side like .010" to thicker like .012"+. Since case neck gets formed by the taper crimp, I think case wall thickness variation is less of a contributing factor to out of round case neck but will stack on top of out of round bullets.

If your finished rounds' bullet is not hitting the start of rifling but the case neck is rubbing the chamber from being out of round, what can you do? One option is using Lee Factory Crimp Die to post size the finished round so the dimensions are within SAAMI specs. Another option is to increase the taper crimp to the point where the finished rounds will fully chamber. But extreme use of these two options may reduce neck tension by reducing the bullet diameter while brass spring back that will result in bullet setback.

So if you are resorting to these options to "fix" the finished rounds' being out of round, I would check the neck tension by measuring OAL before and after feeding/chambering from the magazine and releasing the slide without riding it. If the bullet setback is more than several thousandths and you are using near max load data, you have issues that need to be addressed or you could experience over max chamber pressures.
 
- POWDER CHARGE DROP VARIANCE
- ACCURACY OVER CHRONOGRAPH (MV/ES/SD)
- BARREL TWIST RATE/BULLET WEIGHT
- USING RESIZED/HAND PRIMED CASES IN PROGRESSIVE PRESSES
- HOW TO OBTAIN MORE CONSISTENT OAL/COL


Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9898815#post9898815

jwrowland77 said:
chief9 said:
What is the most important step in reloading for accuracy?
Consistency in everything! Consistency equals accuracy.
I absolutely agree!

IMO, consistent chamber pressure is the most important aspect of reloading that produces greater accuracy. You reload to produce consistent chamber pressures and you are likely to get more consistent muzzle velocities and lower SD numbers.

is it the powder charge, neck tension, crimp, seating depth, oal or something I have missed.
These are reloading variables we must work with and ways to optimize for accuracy or compensate for when using mixed range brass:

Bullet selection - As many posted, I think bullet selection is one of the more important factor for accuracy. For me, Montana Gold/Remington/Speer/Winchester etc. jacketed bullets have shown less than 1 gr weight variance compared to 2-3+ gr variance of plated bullets. With lead bullets, I have seen 5+ gr variance depending on the brand/caliber weight. As others posted, lead bullets that are sized .001"+ groove diameter of your barrel and/or of soft enough alloy (12-18 BHN) to match the powder/charge used will better deform the bullet base to seal with the barrel to produce more consistent chamber pressures. But using bullets with longer base has limitations as powder compression may limit powder selection.

Many prefer bullet types with longer base for accuracy (like 9mm 124/125 gr vs 115 gr, Hollow base vs solid base, SWC vs RN, JHP vs FMJ, TCFP vs RN, non-step RN vs stepped RN) as having more weight towards the back of the bullet/longer bearing surface to engage the rifling may produce greater rotational stability in flight. But using bullets with longer base has limitations as bullet seating depth and powder compression may limit powder selection and charges used.

Brass - Unless you use new brass or once-fired same headstamp brass, you are going to get different chamber pressures from varying degrees of brass quality and condition. Also, your resized case length will vary with mixed range brass and for semi-auto calibers that headspace on case mouth, variation in case length will produce different amount of bullet sticking above the case mouth. For greater consistency, you can sort "resized" brass by length.

Neck tension - Same as above, work hardening of brass will vary depending on the headstamp and number of firings and will affect malleability of brass/neck tension. If you are using mixed range brass, this variation is a reloading variable you must work with. You can maximize neck tension by using bullet types with longest base/bearing surface, minimizing expander/flare, and using deeper bullet seating depth (if you are using bullets with short base like 115 gr FMJ/RN). Some plated bullets have softer lead alloy core and bullets like RMR HM plated bullets with harder 11-12 BHN alloy may produce greater neck tension consistency.

OAL/Seating depth - Using longest working OAL/COL will reduce high pressure gas leakage and will produce more consistent chamber pressures. If you are using progressive press, resizing brass in separate step may reduce OAL/bullet seating depth variation from shell plate tilt/deflection.

Crimp - Although I use match barrels with tighter chambers, I prefer not to use excessive taper crimp to prevent reducing bullet diameter. Often taper crimp of .021"-.022" added to the diameter of the bullet will be enough and will freely chamber in even tighter barrels. Depending on the bullet type used, some reloaders won't even use taper crimp as they will simply seat the bullet with minimal flaring of case mouth to not require any taper crimp.

Powder/Charge - For me, drop to drop variance of less than .1 gr is preferred and is the requirement for my match loads. Some large flake powders like Unique/Red Dot/Promo will meter with .2+ gr variance but still produce accurate loads. Some denser powders like Titegroup, .2-.3+ gr is the full start/max charge load range and will require more precise metering.

IMO, slower burn rate powders than Unique/Universal will obtain optimal accuracy with high-to-near max load data. So if you are loading lighter recoil practice/match loads below high range load data, you want to consider using faster burn rate powders that can produce accuracy with lower powder charges. Fast burn rate powders like Bullseye can produce accurate loads even below start charges that require lighter recoil springs to cycle the slide.

Barrel - Many factory barrels have twist rate of 1:10 while match barrels have 1:16, 1:18, 1:20 and even slower twist rate. IME, KKM barrel with slow 1:20 twist rate has produced greater accuracy than 1:10 factory and 1:16 Lone Wolf barrels with faster twist rate.

There are other reloading variables ...
 
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- TESTING FOR PROPER NECK TENSION
- WORKING OAL/COL VS CHAMBERED OAL/COL


Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9897316#post9897316
GooseGestapo said:
be sure your neck tension is good.

A bullet set back on feeding will cause a major pressure spike with Bullseye and may cause the primer to crater/extrude back into the firing pin hole. May cause the next round to not fire due to metal in the firing pin hole.

Had it happen at a very in-opportune moment... At the nationals, in Match 1.... lost 70points!!!
 
- TESTING FOR PROPER NECK TENSION

Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9900397#post9900397

I use calipers to measure bullet setback/neck tension because even some factory ammunition experience bullet setback with feeding/chambering from the magazine only once. Being able to measure bullet setback in thousandth allows me to do more precise comparison.

My concern with bullet setback is safety vs accuracy.

I reserve verified once-fired brass for near max/max load data duplicate/practice defensive rounds using Gold Dot/Golden Saber JHP bullets (as once-fired brass is more likely to produce more consistent neck tension/less bullet setback) but since I use mixed range brass with different amount of work hardening and resized lengths for most of my reloads (even match loads), I anticipate certain amount of inconsistent bullet setback.

I have found depending on the bullet type (jacketed/plated/coated/lead), length of bullet base/bearing surface and OAL/seating depth used, amount of bullet setback can vary and I will often use bullets that will produce the least amount of bullet setback limited by cost. I think bullet selection is the greatest factor among reloading variables related to consistency of neck tension and bullet setback.

When using max load data and mixed range brass, significant bullet setback can create over max chamber pressures and depending on powder, even more dangerous pressures as various KaBoom threads indicated not always a double charge as the culprit. For this reason, I prefer to use mid to high range load data with mixed range brass to give me some buffer against chamber pressure increase/spike. So if a particular range brass with work hardening (brass spring back) experience significant bullet setback after being chambered, chamber pressure increase may be within SAAMI max pressure.


- OAL VS INSIDE CASE LENGTH
- WORKING OAL/COL VS CHAMBERED OAL/COL


In this thread, OP posted to forget about OAL and instead focus on "Inside Case Length" - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=779672

If you are using mixed range brass (and most of us do) without sorting resized brass by length (one of many reasons why Walkalong and I resize and hand prime brass separately as you can't sort by resized case length when resizing/reloading in progressive mode), different case lengths (even with same OAL) will produce different bullet seating depth/inside case length which will produce different chamber pressures.

Add to this different amount of neck tension and bullet setback when the bullet nose bumps the feeding ramp, you could have "chambered OAL" that will range significantly enough to overshadow other reloading variables and decrease accuracy.


- HOW TO OBTAIN MORE CONSISTENT OAL/COL
- USING RESIZED/HAND PRIMED CASES IN PROGRESSIVE PRESSES


Walkalong resize and handprime brass in separate step even though he uses a progressive press (Hornady AP). I use Dillon 650 and 4 Pro 1000 (along with 2 C-H "H" type presses for load development) but for more accurate loads, I will resize and hand prime separately.

Why?

There are several reasons:

- Allows inspection and cleaning of primer pockets you can't do when resizing/depriming and press priming in progressive mode

- Allows sorting of resized case by lengths

- Allows checking of overly expanded brass fired in unsupported chamber barrels (If I feel significantly greater resizing resistance, I suspect hot/overmax load and/or overly expanded/guppy belly case and check case dimensions and cull/recycle

- Hand priming allows greater control of primer cup seating depth (I aim for .004" below flush)

- Hand priming allows easier identification/marking of cases with loose primer pockets

- Using resized/primed cases in progressive press makes reloading "silky smooth" that takes very little effort.

- Since you are only flaring case mouth, seating and crimping bullets, there is less shell plate deflection/tilt and you will end up with more consistent OAL.
 
This is for Pistol ..... Rifle rounds are a little different.

We can control this to some degree.

OAL can greatly be impacted by the profile of the bullet and seating stem. We all know and see it every time we measure OAL. When shooting SWC or WC if you seat off of the shoulder you end up with constant internal volume and more consistent OAL. This is the way I seat all my SWC. This kind of eliminates the need for sorting cases with the exception of head spaced ammo for the long line. Still want a very tight when shooting long range pistol.

Dealing with RN there are so much variation in roundness (out of round) that this is a variable that will always be present to some degree. I know some actually make a mold for there seating stems to match the bullet ogive/profile. This is probably the best you can do when dealing with RN. Then if your dealing with a plated which is dead soft lead it deforms under pressure.
 
Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9902361#post9902361

FYI, while I have a Dillon 650 set up for separate seating and taper crimping, these rounds were resized/press primed/reloaded in the same progressive mode using mixed range brass with seating/taper crimping in the same step in the Pro 1000.

chief99 said:
Also load 38, 40 and 45 ... Usually shoot 3 to 4 inch groups at 30 feet with these calibers. I think I will start sorting my 380's.
I won't sort brass for range practice/plinking loads.

Why?

Because there are greater reloading variables that will overshadow the chamber pressure variations I will get from mixed range brass such as using better quality bullets, proper OAL for minimal gas leakage and sufficient neck tension and the right powder/charge/consistency.

I use plated/lead bullets for range practice/plinking because they are cheaper. Plated bullets are not known for their accuracy but even with using mixed range brass, I got around one inch shot groups with different charges of W231/HP-38 using TCP - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=748320

I am averaging two inch shot groups at 25 yards with 9mm and 40S&W loads using RMR HM plated bullets and BE-86 powder using mixed range brass that were not sorted by resized case length out of unmodified factory Glock 22/KKM 40-9 conversion barrel for 9mm (pictures of shot groups at link) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9878749#post9878749

Even with cheaper Promo that meters like corn flakes, consistent metering effort by my 20 year old Lee Pro Auto Disk with softer 12 BHN Missouri 200 gr SWC (Bullseye #1) out of unmodified Sig 1911 using mixed range brass still managed two inch shot group at 25 yards.

For me, this level of accuracy is "good enough" for range practice and plinking. If I wanted to enhance my accuracy further, I would:

- Use Montana Gold JHP bullets
- Sort brass by headstamp and resized case lengths
- Resize and hand prime separately to reduce shell plate tilt/deflection for more consistent OAL/bullet seating depth
 
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- POWDER TYPES (Shape/Burn rate/Coating)

Continued from post #74 - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9890280#post9890280

In post #74, I covered popular pistol powder shape and characteristics. I will continue with burn rate. I used Unique/Universal/BE-86 as a reference line to separate "relatively" faster/slower burning powders suitable for pistol loads. IMO, slower burning than Unique powders produce optimal accuracy at high-to-near max load data while faster burning powders can produce accuracy at mid-to-high range load data. Some really fast burning powders like Bullseye can even produce accuracy at low powder charges.

Below is my draft compilation of "relative" burn rate clusters of powders referencing Hodgdon's new powder burn rate chart and Nobel Vectan powder burn rate chart along with Graf & Sons burn rate chart. I am sure the compilation can be "tweaked" further and I would appreciate comments from others.

= DRAFT COMPILATION =

Faster burning pistol powders:

E3 - Competition - Nitro 100 - N310 - Ba10

No. 2 - Bullseye - Clays - WST - Red Dot/Promo - 700X - TiteGroup - Solo 1000 - Am. Select - International - Trail Boss - PB - N320 - Ba9 1/2

No. 5 - W231/HP-38 - Zip - Green Dot - SR7625 - N32C - A1

Slower burning pistol powders:

Unique - Universal - BE-86 - Power Pistol - WSF - N330 - Ba9

HS6 - AutoComp - CFE Pistol - Long Shot - Herco - 800X - True Blue - N340 - 3N37 - A0

No. 7 - SR4756 - Blue Dot - N350 - Ba7 1/2

No. 9 - Enforcer - W296/H110 - 2400 - Steel - SR4759 - 3N38 - Ba6 1/2
 
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Thanks!

- POWDER TYPES (Shape/Burn rate/Coating)

Continued from post #74 - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9890280#post9890280


= DRAFT COMPILATION =

Faster burning pistol powders:

E3 - Competition - Nitro 100 - N310 - Ba10

No. 2 - Bullseye - Clays - WST - Red Dot/Promo - 700X - TiteGroup - Solo 1000 - Am. Select - International - Trail Boss - PB - N320 - Ba9 1/2

No. 5 - W231/HP-38 - Zip - Green Dot - SR7625 - N32C - A1

Slower burning pistol powders:

Unique - Universal - BE-86 - Power Pistol - WSF - N330 - Ba9

HS6 - AutoComp - CFE Pistol - Long Shot - Herco - 800X - True Blue - N340 - 3N37 - A0

No. 7 - SR4756 - Blue Dot - N350 - Ba7 1/2

No. 9 - Enforcer - W296/H110 - 2400 - Steel - SR4759 - H4227 - Lil'Gun - 3N38 - Ba6 1/2
 
- POWDER WORK UP

Ever wonder why there are inconsistencies in published load data? I have and found different testing variables like barrel length, groove diameter, bullet type, OAL/COL/seating depth, primers, brass case, etc. all contribute to differences.

When I saw Lyman #49 40S&W load data significantly higher than other published load data, I took a closer look and found Lyman used .401" groove diameter test barrel with .401" sized lead bullets (page 362 - see picture below).

So slug your barrels and if groove diameter is .401", use Lyman data for your powder work up but if they are more typical .400", use more conservative published load data. ;)

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- STEPPED RN VS NON-STEPPED RN FOR 9MM KKM/LONE WOLF BARRELS

Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9908908#post9908908

I use KKM and Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion barrels for my Glocks and while KKM has longer leade/freebore, Lone Wolf barrels were reamed at the factory that allows longer than SAAMI max of 1.169" OAL/COL of most FMJ/RN profile bullets. But the latest Lone Wolf barrel for G23 has very short leade (like my Sig 1911 barrel with almost no leade). While MBC RN (SmallBall) would work with KKM/LW barrels at 1.080"-1.100", the new LW barrel would not work as OAL that passed the barrel would severely compress the powder charge.

I was a bit disappointed as I really liked MBC RN but found my solution with Dardas/ZCast RN bullets with "steps" that allowed longer 1.125" OAL with "steps" preventing bullet shoulders/bearing surface from hitting the start of rifling and bullet seating depth that did not compress the powder charge (see comparison picture below of "non step" MBC RN and "stepped" Dardas/ZCast RN).

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You could ask why not just go with KKM barrel with longer leade/freebore? Like Sig 1911 barrel, the shorter leade reduces high pressure gas leakage around the bullet and seems to produce greater accuracy. With that said, KKM has slower 1:20 barrel twist rate (compared to 1:16 for LW) which IMO is more compatible with lead/plated bullets for accuracy so if I was shooting matches with G23, I may go with KKM barrel instead and load my rounds longer.

In this comparison thread, I range tested jacketed/plated/lead bullets with KKM/LW barrels and KKM barrel produced slightly greater accuracy with lead/plated bullets - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=745656
 
- BULLETS (design/weights/cannulas/gas checks/lube)

Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9909154#post9909154

... similar frustration was expressed by XD45 owners when they found SWC bullets would not work reliably in their pistols (Due to shallow center slide rib that did not press on top of the round in magazine enough, extracting case rim would catch on the SWC shoulder). XD45, Glock 30 and many 1911 owners gave up trying to get SWC to work and simply changed bullet selection to RN profile bullets and MBC even sells bullets specific to XD45 owners called IDP #4-XD which "FEEDS LIKE BUTTER IN SPRINGFIELD XD" ;) - http://www.missouribullet.com/results.php?pageNum_rsCWResults=3&category=5&secondary=13

Springfield subsequently addressed this issue by adding a deeper angled slide rib which pushes down on the top round in the magazine enough so extracting case rim will clear the SWC shoulder and called it "XDM" and XDM pistols will now work with SWC bullets.
 
- MAX VS WORKING OAL/COL

Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9909155#post9909155

otisrush said:
*Why* Do Some Mfgers Make Their Chambers So Short?
They have their reasons as G30 and many 1911s still won't reliably work with SWC bullets and XD/XDM owners need to load their rounds shorter than other pistols.

Sig 1911 barrel vs Lone Wolf barrel
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My Sig 1911 barrel has very short leade/freebore (almost none) with very sharp start of rifling angle (see picture above with Sig 1911 barrel on the left compared to LW barrel on the right with longer leade and slower start of rifling angle - white arrow) but it will reliably feed various brand SWC bullets without issues.

As comparison picture below shows, factory PMC FMJ loaded to 1.255" and CCI FMJ at 1.270" will fully chamber in the Sig 1911 barrel but Berry's RN with rounder nose profile needs to be loaded shorter than 1.260" (more like 1.25" depending on resized case length variation).

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With some bullets, shorter leade forces me to seat the bullet even shorter. When I was testing RMR's new HM bullets, I found the nose to be shorter/rounder which resulted in longer bullet base/bearing surface.

Berry's/X-Treme 230 gr RN compared to RMR HM 230 gr RN

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While 1.230" fully chambered in barrels with longer leade like RIA 1911, I needed to seat the bullet deeper 1.200" to fully chamber in Sig 1911

Comparison picture showing RMR HM 230 gr RN seated to 1.200"/1.230" compared to factory PMC round

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- SEATING PRIMERS / SETTING ANVIL TIP ON PRIMING COMPOUND (PRE-COMPRESSION)

Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9911548#post9911548

lckdnldd said:
When I seat a primer I feel for the moment the primer bottoms out in the cup. They usually seat just a bit below flush.
The initial resistance you feel is the anvil feet hitting the bottom of the primer pocket. You should keep seating the primer until you feel the second lighter resistance which is anvil feet riding up the primer cup pushed by the bottom of pocket to set the anvil tip against the priming compound. I usually just give a firm push until the primers don't go any deeper. Properly seated primers are usually .004" below flush and I have even seated them to crush depth of .008" below flush with flattening of the cup and they still went bang- http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7810685#post7810685

If you are using European Fiocchi/Tula/Wolf primers with slightly larger metric sized cups, you may not be able to seat primers below flush, especially in once-fired/S&B/RWS brass with tighter primer pockets. But the larger sized primers are good for extending the life of older brass with enlarged primer pockets.

How do you measure .004" below flush? Use the end of the calipers.

The Rifleman's Journal discussed primer seating pressure and pre-compression more in detail here - http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/11/primers-seating-pressure-and-pre.html

Comparison picture of different brand primers seated to .004" and .008" below flush

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I won't sort brass for range practice/plinking loads.

Why?

Because there are greater reloading variables that will overshadow the chamber pressure variations I will get from mixed range brass such as using better quality bullets, proper OAL for minimal gas leakage and sufficient neck tension and the right powder/charge/consistency.


I figured it was time for me to participate in this thread and this is the perfect spot to jump in.

I've sorted pistol brass and weighed bullets and done all sorts of fine tuning in efforts to see how good I can load. I've quit doing all of it. I buy a quality bullet in the first place, keep my powder drops VERY consistent, and tight groups happen.

I've posted pictures of my bullseye targets and the results speak for themselves. They are all loaded with mixed brass. I'll put mine up against anyone's match ammo with hand sorted and weighed cases and bullets, etc.
 
- SEATING PRIMERS / SETTING ANVIL TIP ON PRIMING COMPOUND (PRE-COMPRESSION)

Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9911705#post9911705

lckdnldd, your picture shows Win SP primer cups with quite a "dome" on top. Unfortunately not all primer pocket depths are same and can vary by headstamp (and especially if they were modified by reloaders). So seating .004" below flush may not always ensure anvil tips are properly pre-tensioned against the priming compound in deeper primer pocket cases.

Try seating the primers with greater force until the cup tops are slightly flattened as shown in the picture below (at least flat like .004" below flush primer on the left).

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ljnowell, your reloading methods and practices must work as you placed first place in your Bullseye League - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=780168

Congratulations and excellent work!

Would you care to share with us your match loads?


My best load uses 2.9 grains of AA#2 under a 148 grain wadcutter. I've used both HBWC and cast DEWC and find that powder charge to work best with both.

When using a HBWC I put a slight roll crimp in place and seat them totally flush. Using a DEWC I seat the crimp groove and half of the forward driving band in the case and do not crimp the case at all, only smoothing out the flare(like a taper crimp in an auto).

I also occasionally use a 158 grain LSWC in practice. I load these over 3.5 grains of AA#2(.1 grain below start). I seat these just like the DEWC with half of the forward driving band in the case and just a light taper crimp.

On these very light loads with cast bullets and fast powders I have found that I get better accuracy by NOT crimping into the crimp groove.
 
- WORKING OAL VS CHAMBERED OAL

Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9913047#post9913047

hollywood63 said:
I was loading some 115 gr acme lead coated bullets with 4.9 CFE with a oal 1.100. After loading 50 I switched to a xtreme plated bullet with the same specs. After I was done I noticed I screwed up and loaded 124 gr. which call for a oal of 1.150. So you think they would be safe or am I pulling them?
Since OP loaded 124 gr coated lead bullets at shorter 1.100", I would reference the more conservative load data for 125 gr FMJ @ 1.090" which shows 5.1 gr as max charge and lower start/max charges than load data for HBRN-TP loaded at longer 1.150" - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
124 GR. BERB HBRN TP OAL/COL 1.150" Start 4.9 gr (1,006 fps) 27,300 PSI - Max 5.5 gr (1,120 fps) 33,800 PSI

125 GR. SIE FMJ OAL/COL 1.090" Start 4.6 gr (1,009 fps) 26,900 PSI - Max 5.1 gr (1,118 fps) 33,000 PSI
hollywood63, I would check the finished rounds for bullet setback by feeding/chambering from the magazine without riding the slide. If they don't experience bullet setback, I would probably shoot them but if you measure significant bullet setback (more than a few thousandths), I would pull the bullets.

Regards to bullet seating depth, it's the "chambered" OAL/bullet seating depth that matters more than "max/working" OAL/bullet seating depth if there is any neck tension issue that will result in deeper bullet seating depth.
 
- POWER TYPES (Shape/Burn rate/Coating)

Repost from another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9913541#post9913541
ZenMoto said:
200gr plated RN bullets from X-treme, with a c.o.l. of 1.250"

... starting at 6.0gr of CFE Pistol I get really dirty cases and a fair amount of spitting back ... tested loads up to 6.6gr which still seem to spit a bit, but accuracy also seems to fall off north of 6.4gr.
Hodgdon lists the burn rate of CFE Pistol to be slower than WSF/HS-6/AutoComp - https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn Rates - 2014-2015.pdf

IMO, powders slower burning than Unique/BE-86/Universal tends to burn more efficiently at high-to-near max load data and produce optimal accuracy.
200 GR. CAST LSWC CFE Pistol OAL/COL 1.225" Start 7.4 gr (1,042 fps) 15,000 PSI - Max 8.2 gr (1,142 fps) 19,600 PSI
If you are using regular plated X-Treme bullet, you should be referencing lead load data. Hodgdon lists 7.4/8.2 gr as start/max charge for 200 gr lead SWC bullet and I would suggest you conduct your powder work up from 7.4 gr for more efficient powder burn.
trying to find an accurate, low-recoil load
If you are looking for a low recoil load that is accurate, you won't find it with a slower burning powder. My suggestion would be using faster burning than Unique/BE-86/Universal powders like W231/HP-38/Red Dot/Promo/Bullseye.

Here's my compilation of "grouped" pistol powders by burn rate for reference - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9906849#post9906849

Faster burning pistol powders
:

E3 - Competition - Nitro 100 - N310 - Ba10

No. 2 - Bullseye - Clays - WST - Red Dot/Promo - 700X - TiteGroup - Solo 1000 - Am. Select - International - Trail Boss - PB - N320 - Ba9 1/2

No. 5 - W231/HP-38 - Zip - Green Dot - SR7625 - N32C - A1

Slower burning pistol powders
:

Unique - Universal - BE-86 - Power Pistol - WSF - N330 - Ba9

HS6 - AutoComp - CFE Pistol - Long Shot - Herco - 800X - True Blue - N340 - 3N37 - A0

No. 7 - SR4756 - Blue Dot - N350 - Ba7 1/2

No. 9 - Enforcer - W296/H110 - 2400 - Steel - SR4759 - H4227 - Lil'Gun - 3N38 - Ba6 1/2
 
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