Toy Gun Sold in U.S. Can Easily be Converted to the Real Thing

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Zack

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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/exclusive-toy-gun-sold-easily-turned-real-thing/



Felons, illegal immigrants and all others banned from buying a gun in the United States have a new alternative if they’re looking to get their hands on a firearm: Just buy a toy.

A FoxNews.com investigation reveals that a popular recreational pellet gun can be converted easily to a real semi-automatic weapon. And while the federal Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is already aware of the issue, these “toys” -- new, top-of-the-line airsoft rifles -- continue to be sold throughout the country.

Like paintball without the paint, the propane-powered airsoft guns are designed to shoot quarter-inch plastic pellets and are generally used for recreation or in military and law enforcement training.

When the ATF seized a shipment of 30 of these guns in October from a port in Tacoma, Wash., it said they could be “readily convertible” to machine guns. But gun experts called that claim absurd and said the ATF was overstepping its bounds.

Now one of those critics is reversing his position, saying at least one airsoft manufacturer has taken the quest to be authentic a little too far.

“The airsoft can be converted to an AR-15,” firearms manufacturer Leo Gonnuscio told FoxNews.com after testing the make and model of airsoft guns seized by the ATF.

Having concluded that several other airsoft guns could not be converted to fire real ammunition, Gonnuscio said he was surprised to find that he was able to to transform this particular gun to the real thing -- and with “minimal work,” because its bottom half, or “receiver,” is so similar to an AR-15's.

To make the airsoft receiver function just like an AR-15’s, Gonnuscio said, “All you have to do is drill one hole.”

And once that's out of the way, the rest is even easier. The AR-15 receiver is the only part of the semi-automatic rifle that is given a serial number, and is the only part that is regulated. All the remaining parts of the real thing can be purchased by anyone – any kid, criminal or terrorist.

The cost of buying the Taiwan-made airsoft gun and all the parts needed to convert it to an AR-15 comes to roughly $1,100 -- more than the cost of some real AR-15s. But someone who can’t clear a background check or has been refused a gun for any other reason could use this method to make his own lethal weapon, Gonnuscio said.

Making it into a machine gun, he said, would require yet another conversion, and the makeshift gun would likely be able to fire only 15-20 rounds before it stopped working due to the pressure it would have to withstand while firing in an automatic fashion.

But as semi-automatic weapon, Gonnuscio said, “It may not last forever, but they’ve got a gun to get the job done that they were assigned to do, and nobody knows the wiser.”

The ATF has made no reported moves to regulate or seize any more of the airsoft guns, which continue to be sold in stores around the country, and it appears to be bowing to critics and reconsidering its stance on the guns' convertibility.

“We’re having to take a serious look at this, so it’s just something that we’re reviewing, and I’m hoping we’ll have some information that we can make available to the public certainly very soon,” ATF spokesman Drew Wade told FoxNews.com.

But firearms expert Len Savage said the ATF is taking a “serious look” at the wrong issue -- or, more specifically, the wrong part of the gun.

The reason it’s possible to make these airsoft receivers function as real receivers is that all an AR-15 receiver does is hold the gun together, Savage said. So with enough gun knowledge, almost anything can be made into a receiver.

“There’s a line of AR-15 firearms out there where the lower (the receiver) is made entirely of injection molded plastic … It could be made of cardboard and scotch tape,” he said.

The most important part of an AR-15, and the most difficult part to replicate, he said, is the upper half of the gun -- which is unmarked, unregulated and readily available for purchase.

“The upper is what contains the barrel, the breecher bolt, that’s what contains all the pressure,” Savage said.

He said the reason the lower half of the AR-15 is the part with the serial number, and thus classified as the receiver, is that it was up to the manufacturer to choose the location of the gun’s serial number. Because the bottom of the gun has a flat surface, it was the easiest to mark.

And though federal law has since defined a gun’s receiver as the part “which provides housing for the hammer, bolt, breechblock and firing mechanism,” Savage says the bureau has continued to mark and regulate the lower part of the AR-15 to avoid confusion.

“In the stream of commerce, you’d have uppers that were marked and regulated and then lowers that were marked and regulated, you could see the confusion on a dealer basis” in determining which parts require licensing and which don’t, Savage said.

But even though the upper half of the gun can be bought by anyone, Gonnuscio still says that banning the airsoft receivers and implementing a few new rules for airsoft manufacturers could be a good start to keeping unregulated AR-15s off the street.

“I would hope that the ATF applies pressure to the manufacturers of these airsoft guns to redesign them so they cannot be converted," he said. "Make them move the pin holes ... so that an upper can’t be attached to it without major machining.

"Fill in some of that gap so that they would literally have to chuck this thing up in a mill and totally reconfigure it to work. Tighten up the magazine well so a regular magazine won’t fit in it.”

And because the U.S. is such a big market for these airsoft guns, Gonnuscio said, a foreign manufacture would change the product if its current design were banned here.

“There are tons of good uses for these guns: We use them for training, kids do reenacting with them, kids get out there and play just like the old days. We played BB gun wars when we were kids and we survived. These are little plastic balls that are shot by electricity or propane.

"So let them have their toys. Just make sure they’re still toys.”
 
The ATF thinks that plastic airsoft guns can be converted into firearms?

Oh, my...

Give the grown man his toy guns back.
 
It's certainly plausible.

I'd just have to see the particular lower in question before passing judgment. But I do give the article props for as best I can tell being technically correct with regards to what the lower on an ar15 actually does and doesn't do.

“There’s a line of AR-15 firearms out there where the lower (the receiver) is made entirely of injection molded plastic … It could be made of cardboard and scotch tape,” he said.

That would be Cav Arms

Now that's be a challenge for mythbusters!!! and you know what I wouldn't put it past em.
 
It's certainly plausible.
not really.

With the machining and fabrication required to make an airsoft toy into a firearm, better firearms could be made from scratch.

I suppose that "converted into a real firearm" could be stretched to the concept of "moved the sights, plastic trigger, and outer shell onto a real firearm" ... but that would just be stupid.
 
How is this even a story?

It's legal to make your own gun.

They sell receiver kits where you just drill a hole or two and bend some metal, and assemble. Not regulated. Not illegal.

I don't see how this is any different. Except the darned airsoft rifle probably costs 4x what a do-it-yourself AK parts kit would run.
 
The cost of buying the Taiwan-made airsoft gun and all the parts needed to convert it to an AR-15 comes to roughly $1,100 -- more than the cost of some real AR-15s. But someone who can’t clear a background check or has been refused a gun for any other reason could use this method to make his own lethal weapon, Gonnuscio said.

Making it into a machine gun, he said, would require yet another conversion, and the makeshift gun would likely be able to fire only 15-20 rounds before it stopped working due to the pressure it would have to withstand while firing in an automatic fashion.

I suspect "stopped working" means "blows up in the criminals face", so what's the problem?
 
A hammer, a nail, and a round of ammo can be converted to a "real gun" too, but I don't see it making the headlines on the news.

I hate the media.
 
“I would hope that the ATF applies pressure to the manufacturers of these airsoft guns to redesign them so they cannot be converted," he said. "Make them move the pin holes ... so that an upper can’t be attached to it without major machining.

"Fill in some of that gap so that they would literally have to chuck this thing up in a mill and totally reconfigure it to work. Tighten up the magazine well so a regular magazine won’t fit in it.”

A mill? Well dang, no criminal has access to one of those...


They do make airsoft guns that are insanely identical to the real thing. They are made out of metal and basically weigh the same as the real thing. What's nuts is that they also cost as much or more than the real thing.

Could those metal airsoft guns be converted?...like others have said, I want to see a demonstration of such an airsoft gun...and I want the NRA present to oversee how it gets converted and that it can actually fire rounds.
 
Keep in mind this is only a lower receiver. It doesn't withstand any great amount of stress. Some of these airsoft components are actually built close enough to real firearm standards that they could easily hold up to the stress of firing. What determines if an AR blows up is not the lower, but the upper. I suspect what they mean by the pressure is the stress applied specifically to the holes for the individual parts required for full-auto operation. In semi-auto, it would probably be perfectly reliable.
 
“There’s a line of AR-15 firearms out there where the lower (the receiver) is made entirely of injection molded plastic … It could be made of cardboard and scotch tape,” he said.

Really? I could have used cardboard instead of this overpriced bushmaster junk?

I'm pretty sure I'd be hesitant to fire a cardboard lower the fist time...
 
all the parts needed to convert it to an AR-15 comes to roughly $1,100

15-20 rounds before it stopped working due to the pressure it would have to withstand while firing in an automatic fashion.

But as semi-automatic weapon, Gonnuscio said, “It may not last forever, but they’ve got a gun to get the job done that they were assigned to do, and nobody knows the wiser.”



Oh no! So something that costs $1100 and is unlikely to last even a full 30 round magazine even while using a real AR-15 upper is a threat!


I'd like to see them do it... and have them do a live fire demonstration for us.
We certainly do need a demonstration of this $1100 firearm that is not even expected to last 30 rounds by those trying to make it out to be a problem.

How is this even a story?

It's legal to make your own gun.

They sell receiver kits where you just drill a hole or two and bend some metal, and assemble. Not regulated. Not illegal.

Exactly, this is not a story. It is some thing someone ran across they felt could cause gun related panic.
For the price of a handful of these guns you could set up a CNC machine to mass produce receivers.
 
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They do make airsoft guns that are insanely identical to the real thing. They are made out of metal and basically weigh the same as the real thing. What's nuts is that they also cost as much or more than the real thing.

Bear in mind that even the metal airsoft guns aren't made out of the same metals as a real firearm. From what I've seen, the metal ones are made out of pot metal, which is fine for an airsoft gun, but not so good for a real one.
 
bear in mind ptk is a pretty fair machinist/gunsmith pics and reviews of his work are available

Oh, I'm sure you might be able to clamp a real upper to an airsoft lower and have it work...after you've removed all of the airsoft guts and replaced them with a real trigger group and other internal parts.

But then again, it wasn't all that long ago that I stumbled across a website where some enterprising guy managed to build a functioning lower by sandwiching a bunch of plastic cafeteria trays together with glue, and milling out the proper shapes.

Still, just because it can be done doesn't mean it will hold up to long term use. Of course, if it does, that's cool too as building such a thing is completely legal, so long as you're doing it for personal use.
 
heres his latest


I disagree. This isn't just "stupid nonsense". Here are the specific issues with saying this is just regulatory nonsense:

The receivers are perfectly strong enough. (6061T6 aluminum)
The FCG pin placement, upper pins, magwell, and rear tower threads are all in spec.
There is a genuine M16 autosear in there. The "toy" has a legitimate autosear in the correct location.

To make this "toy" into a MG takes the following as an absolute minimum - shim the FCG by less than .050" (this can be skipped if you don't care about the lower surviving very long, it will egg the FCG pin holes out), put an M16 hammer in place of the toy one, and snap on an upper with an FA BCG.
 
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