Toy Gun Sold in U.S. Can Easily be Converted to the Real Thing

[cassandrasdaddy]

http://www.teamduck.com/Media/PhotoGallery/tabid/310/AlbumID/4090-39/Page/0/Default.aspx

 

[tkopp]

Really guys, is it so much to ask that airsoft manufacturers make toys with parts enough out of milspec that real parts don't fit?

 

[sterling180]

I never thought that id hear such nonsense in any other country,other than my own pc country.Scaremongering garbage is what this is.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Really guys, is it so much to ask that airsoft manufacturers make toys with parts enough out of milspec that real parts don't fit?

That's not nearly as fun as wanton speculation, gratuitous pontification on the legality and morality of current NFA laws.

I especially like the replies who state the lower will explode

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

true experts those fellers are

 

[Justin]

Really guys, is it so much to ask that airsoft manufacturers make toys with parts enough out of
milspec that real parts don't fit?

So you want to mandate that all airsoft manufacturers completely re-tool their manufacturing facilities on the off chance that someone will by an airsoft gun costing several hundred dollars in order to acquire a stripped lower made of questionable materials, and then spend at least another several hundred dollars to buy all of the other internal parts to complete a lower, and then slap an upper on it?


I suppose that if there were a rash of people willing to go through such idiotic contortions to acquire a rifle of questionable structural integrity and then using them to commit various violent crimes, there would be an argument to be made here, but I simply don't see it.


The knowledge of airsoft, firearms, gunsmithing, and parts needed to go from airsoft gun to full-auto m16, to say nothing of the costs required, means that only a very small number of people could actually pull this off, and the process is so clearly laborious that the liklihood of a criminal actually going to the effort of building such a firearm (that they will likely abandon after using) is vanishingly small. I simply don't see that it's necessary to impose real-world financial and regulatory burdens on both the toy makers and their fans because someone *might* go to the considerable effort to make a real gun out of a toy.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

I suppose that if there were a rash of people willing to go through such idiotic contortions to acquire a rifle of questionable structural integrity and then using them to commit various violent crimes, there would be an argument to be made here, but I simply don't see it.


The knowledge of airsoft, firearms, gunsmithing, and parts needed to go from airsoft gun to full-auto m16, to say nothing of the costs required, means that only a very small number of people could actually pull this off, and the process is so clearly laborious that the liklihood of a criminal actually going to the effort of building such a firearm (that they will likely abandon after using) is vanishingly small. I simply don't see that it's necessary to impose real-world financial and regulatory burdens on both the toy makers and their fans because someone *might* go to the considerable effort to make a real gun out of a toy.


er no its a plug and play deal on the one type of gun. see the links and also might wanna see where ptk describe a wooden lower the lower is not pressure stressed

 

[Justin]

er no its a plug and play deal on the one type of gun. see the links and also might wanna see where ptk describe a wooden lower the lower is not pressure stressed

Yes, I own a number of AR-15s and understand how they work. Thanks.

People have built AR lowers out of all sorts of things. I already pointed out that there are guys who've built a lower by gluing together plastic cafeteria trays and then milling out the plastic. Shall we now assume that plastic cafeteria trays are readily converted into a live weapon?

I suppose the question is, where do you draw the line? Is the "receiver" of a toy gun too close to the real thing? A piece of wood that's been thrown into a lathe? Sandwiched sheets of plastic?

Arguably you could build at least a semi-functioning lower out of practically anything without "much work" (however you define that.)

 

[PTK]

You keep claiming that it's as easy as swapping a few parts, but I don't buy it. If it's so easy, show me a converted, functioning gun.

Uh, no. That'd be pretty damn illegal. The proof is that the BATFE has seized these guns, because the receivers, as-is, are in spec M4 receivers, and thus MGs in and of themselves. You know that.

People have built AR lowers out of all sorts of things. I already pointed out that there are guys who've built a lower by gluing together plastic cafeteria trays and then milling out the plastic. Shall we now assume that plastic cafeteria trays are readily converted into a live weapon?

Straw man, and again, you know better.



cassandrasdaddy, we might as well give up. People "know" what they "know", and that's it.

 

[Justin]

According to this source there are a number of steps that would be needed for these to be usable in a real firearm.

Something that's "in-spec" wouldn't require the use of shims and modifications to insert a retaining pin for the trigger group.

The proof is that the BATFE has seized these guns, because the receivers, as-is, are in spec M4 receivers, and thus MGs in and of themselves. You know that.

I'm just asking for proof, is all. It seems to me that if this is so easily accomplished, the BATFE would have no problems demonstrating this. As you may or may not be aware, the BATFE has had issues with the truth in the past.

Straw man, and again, you know better.

How so? If I have to modify a toy receiver to make it function as a real gun, the difference between that and making a receiver out of wood or plastic is really only one of degree, is it not?

 

[PTK]

Fine, you're right, oh no, the BATFE are seizing toys, run for the hills, git'r'done, cold dead hands, et cetera ad nauseum.


I'm done here.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Well, better they waste our tax money on toy guns than say go catch criminals.... or shoot dogs and mothers, the BAFTE doesn't exactly have a steller reputation, and now they are taking pot metal toys

If the issue was a inspec auto sear, then there would be more understanding, me, I hope the bangers start using these, wow, to think of it, so might some cops,

FA are notoriously inaccurate, and this on is GARR RUNNN TEED to break after half a mag. Seem like the cops should have no problem finishing the job.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

ignored questions

Have any crimes been commited using a $350 airsoft rifle (instead of a proper $79 to $129 lower receiver) to build an AR15/M16 rifle?

How many people knew the conversion was possible until ATF informed the public?

Sounds like a lot of wheel grinding over something that could have been done rather than anything that actual was done.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

Have any crimes been commited using a $350 airsoft rifle (instead of a proper $79 to $129 lower receiver) to build an AR15/M16 rifle?


when it crossed the border or anyone's after that?
its not that a conspiracy existed to make the airsoft so it could be converted. what happened is someone got told to build a real good high dollar replica. they took a real lower and copied it. now as soon as it came into the us it was an unregistered lower.
go directly to jail do not pass go. that this lower is set up to be f/a just makes it worse

anyone familiar with commodore perry? he took a working model steam railroad locomotive as a gift to the emperor of japan. when some years later the japanese had their first railroad the locomotive was a scaled up exact copy of that model.

 

[Cactus Jack Arizona]

That's it, I'm calling Myth Busters.

 

[merlinfire]

Here's my take on it, for what it's worth. I used to play airsoft and had automatic AEG's (mp5 variant).

In order to convert this to be able to fire a live round without seriously injuring the user would take a LOT of effort.

Even if we're talking ar-15 conversions, isn't it the upper that's regulated? Maybe I'm misinformed? This seems like an ill-conceived and misinformed cheap-shot.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

its the lower thats numbered and regulated check out the links above to see that no it doesn't take a lot to modify this one type of lower. and that it comes ready for f/a fire. the one link has side by side pictures. with micrometer measurements

 

[Sunray]

"...It's certainly plausible..." No it isn't. Airsoft toys are plastic and soft metal. FoxNews is full of excrement. So is Leo Gonnuscio of Kind Mountain Gun Works. Whoever he is.
Kind Mountain Gunworks
410 N 4Th Ave
Cornelius, OR. 97113
(503) 359-7601
"...I'm calling Myth Busters..." Those twits know even less.

 

[Buck Snort]

RockyMtnTactical wrote: "No kidding. The ATF is a joke."

If only that were true.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

No it isn't. Airsoft toys are plastic and soft metal. FoxNews is full of excrement. So is Leo Gonnuscio of Kind Mountain Gun Works. Whoever he is.

can we safely say you haven't read the whole thread checked any of the links? try the one in post 51 and work back from there


and feel free to share with us your level of experience and expertise i particular with the one model of airsoft being discussed. we won't hold you to the same level as Leo Gonnuscio. you can remain anonymous its better that way just some idea like lets say have you ever held one? seen a picture? heard about it on the net?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

posts 49 and 27 too we welcome enlightenment and insight from another gunsmith. you are a gunsmith i assume

 

[R.W.Dale]

"...It's certainly plausible..." No it isn't. Airsoft toys are plastic and soft metal. FoxNews is full of excrement. So is Leo Gonnuscio of Kind Mountain Gun Works. Whoever he is.
Kind Mountain Gunworks
410 N 4Th Ave
Cornelius, OR. 97113
(503) 359-7601
"...I'm calling Myth Busters..." Those twits know even less.

So says a keyboard gunsmith who appearently doesn't know you can buy fully functional PLASTIC ar15 lowers that work great.

The lower on an ar really doesn't do anything beyond provide a handle, hold a magazine and locate the fire controll group. As long as the material is strong enough to withstand the forces of the hammer spring it really doesn't matter what it's made from. Some of these new airsoft toys are very high quality pieces, much better than crap low end "real" ar15 parts.

In fact a $1000 airsoft gun is about as much a toy as a $3000 remote controlled helicopter. They might both be toys but they ceritanlly aren't $10 crap made for kiddies.

As noted above these lowers already have an m16 auto sear making them a machinegun right out of the box as per the ATF

Do not pass GO do not collect $200 et all

 

[owsi26]

I guess I don't know as much as I thought I did. It was stated that all the receiver does is hold the gun together. Later, it mentions other reasons. But I thought that the receiver includes the magazine well and related parts.

This brings up something that has always confused me. I see ads in gun catalogs where they are selling all parts, except for the receiver, for many rifles, machine guns that included the fire control parts. I've seen AR-15 uppers for a lot less than $1,100.

My confusion is what are people doing with them? I'm not talking about AR-15's as you can change the caliber, barrell length and the barrel's rifling. I'm talking about AK-47's etc. Are that many people that will pay for all parts of an AK-47, except for the receiver? I could understand if you were restoring them. But, what I wonder if people, out there, are making lowers that are not stamped and regulated. In other words, a 'home made' receiver, that with the parts kits could give you an undocumented, illegal firearm that could also work in full auto. Full autos can cost $10,000 and up. So, it does make me wonder.
There are just too many ads for these parts kits out there. Advertisers don't pay money, over and over, unless people are buying them.

Regarding the toy. Did the news media identify the toys manufacter? If so, they have alerted many on how to make powerful weapons that can't be traced. BUT, someone who is a felon and isn't allowed to have a firearm would most likely steal or buy on the street such a weapon. Also, a handgun is easier to conceal. But someone will convert this toy, even if it is to see if they could do it.

Last thing. Wouldn't it be possible to make a mold of a real receiver and then cast it in polymer or metal, then work on it until it will work?

 

[owsi26]

Really? Is it legal to make your own firearms. Can someone use a zip gun for SD??

 

[sv51macross]

I guess I don't know as much as I thought I did. It was stated that all the receiver does is hold the gun together. Later, it mentions other reasons. But I thought that the receiver includes the magazine well and related parts.

This brings up something that has always confused me. I see ads in gun catalogs where they are selling all parts, except for the receiver, for many rifles, machine guns that included the fire control parts. I've seen AR-15 uppers for a lot less than $1,100.

My confusion is what are people doing with them? I'm not talking about AR-15's as you can change the caliber, barrell length and the barrel's rifling. I'm talking about AK-47's etc. Are that many people that will pay for all parts of an AK-47, except for the receiver? I could understand if you were restoring them. But, what I wonder if people, out there, are making lowers that are not stamped and regulated. In other words, a 'home made' receiver, that with the parts kits could give you an undocumented, illegal firearm that could also work in full auto. Full autos can cost $10,000 and up. So, it does make me wonder.
There are just too many ads for these parts kits out there. Advertisers don't pay money, over and over, unless people are buying them.

Last thing. Wouldn't it be possible to make a mold of a real receiver and then cast it in polymer or metal, then work on it until it will work?

...

...

They're making semi-auto guns out of them?
http://www.nodakspud.com/

And it is perfectly legal for one to make an 'undocumented' gun as long as you don't sell it. People make their own AK and AR lowers rather frequently from cut flats/80% lowers.