Trouble with the cops.

[1911Tuner]

re:

Lucky wrote:

>I traveled in Montana when they had no speed limits, and guess what - I'm still here to talk about it.<
*************

Okay. Montana is another one that had no posted speed limits at one time...but the point wasn't about no limits on certain roads. It was in response to the disinformation about there being no speed limits on highways 30 years ago...and there assuredly were on 98% of the roads in America.

And...maybe part of the reason was that the states with no posted limits on certain roads noticed a higher number of fatalities per accident...and decided that an American Autobahn wasn't such a good idea.

Don't get me wrong. I used to be a speed demon, and it didn't go away until I was way past the age to stop such foolishness. I'm actually very lucky to be alive, given that I had no fear of anything below 150 mph. In fact, if I were to give in to temptation and go buy one of those Hemi-Powered Concept Challengers...I'd probably fall right back into old patterns. But the fact stands. High speeds kill more frequently in highway accidents...and speed multiplies the driver error, making an accident more likely.

 

[Chui]

Sounds like you were being harassed. Your questioning may have pissed them off so they took their time and "fished" while you were in the back seat. They "showed you" who was in control.

You can be obeying all traffic laws and still be pulled over...

Welcome to the growing police state, son.

Where are your papers?!

 

[Jamie C.]

Sounds like you were being harassed.

No... he was driving 15 mph over the speed limit at 11 o'clock at night. And admitted it.

And most likely wanted to get a little surly about it, if I'm reading things right. ( Even "polite" questions can be asked in a hostile manner. )

Were it me pulling him over, I'd have given him a good looking-over myself, before I cut him loose.

And if that's harassment, then I'd be guilty ( and have been ) every time.

( Also, don't forget that it takes a few minutes some times to run a check on the person you have stopped, to see if there are any outstanding wants or warrants. And here locally, the servers would be taken down for maintenance once a month on Sunday night, for a short while. This made things interesting for an hour or so, to say the least. )


J.C.

 

[Joe Demko]

One possibility is that they were looking for a car matching the same description as yours. Some years ago, I was pulled over by a PA state trooper and asked a lot of questions that seemed to have no point whatsoever. Later, I found out through a relative in PSP that they were looking for a black 1974 Chevy Nova that had been involved in an incident the night before. The little charade the trooper put me through was just a way to keep me there without telling me why he was keeping me there.

p.s. He wrote me a "courtesy" ticket for having a loose muffler (it wasn't) just so I wouldn't feel like my time had been wasted.

 

[eliphalet]

Another possibility was they were jerks with nothing better to do at the moment, and as jerks were enjoying harassing someone and you happen to be handy, And were throughly enjoying their authority and the abuse thereof.

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

I can drive 100 miles an hour on the interstate and be fine.

This is taken out of context, Jamie. I am comparing it to the sentence that follows. This has nothing to do with my motorvehicle skills. This was to show that speed (can) amplify the damage, but it (usually) won't be the main cause of it.

So...let us agree that error initiates the problem, but that speed multiplies the terminal effect.

In most cases yes. I agree.

Driving a vehicle faster than you can safely handle it is "driver error".

Right, but everyone's limit is different. Depending on the car and the one behind the wheel, one person's driving at 80 mph can be far and away better than another's driving at 60 mph.

most people aren't as capable behind the wheel as they think they are

No question about that!

 

[Erebus]

Got felony stopped a few years ago and put in a cruiser. A total of 3 of us were in the car and we were all put in seperate cruisers.

The police kept asking, " Who made the call?" nothing more specific than that. THey were trying to get us to say something we shouldn't have known.

None of us knew what call they meant and after a while they explained and let us go once they were sure we weren't who they were looking for.

Someone called in a bomb threat to a local retail store and apparently did it from a pay phone right outside the place. Someone saw "a white guy in a black shirt get in a black monte carlo". That's all they had to go on. We drove by the place in a black monte carlo and they pounced. All 3 of us were white and 2 of us were wearing black shirts.

When they released us I don't know if they were obligated to explain it to us or not. Can any of you LEOs clarify this? They were still investigating a crime and I could understand if they would not have wanted that info public yet.

If I remember correctly it turned out to be an employee that didn't want to have to go to work that day and thought the bomb threat would close the place for the day.

 

[Deavis]

Lucky, "Traveling too fast" kills more people every year than guns do. And I've lost count of how many idiot kids I've pulled out of mangled cars and trucks, and scraped up off the road, or picked out of trees, because they were driving faster than they could actually handle.

The truth is that travelling "too" fast doesn't kill anyone. The "too" fast implies an opinion on someone's part, not a fact. Driving faster than you can handle or traffic conditions permit kills people, that is a fact and the only fact. I drive at speeds you might consider "too" fast all the time but the Germans still think that highways should be highways.

The minimum speed your car must go is 130km/h to even get on the Autobahn. Then again, when I'm going 220, there are no left-lane vigilantes trying to enforce their morals on me. People get out of the way and stay out of the way. The issue isn't the speed, it is the lack of driving skill and courtesy among the population. I always smile when I blow past police cars and know that they don't care because I'm not doing anything wrong. Side note, IIRC Car and driver did some work a few years back and driving too slowly was right next too driving too fast as a cause of accidents.

Towards the interaction, why be rude? It just doesn't pay. They own that encounter, your lawmakers have guaranteed that, so accept it and move on. You are dealing with human beings, treat them the same way you would want to be treated when you are doing what you have been ordered to do by legislators. Don't abuse the messenger because your elected officials are afraid to let you drive like a responsible adult.

 

[Erebus]

Side note, IIRC Car and driver did some work a few years back and driving too slowly was right next too driving too fast as a cause of accidents.

Highways here in MA with 65mph speed limits also have a minimum of 45mph. I'm sure that's why.

 

[Lucky]

So can I...but it's that pesky unknown that I can't bet on. The other guy switching lanes as I start to pull alongside him. The deer on the side of the road that stands still and spooks at the last second. The thrown tractor-trailer recap that's just out of sight on the other side of the slight rise as I reach the top. The little old lady driving 45 mph in a 70 zone that's just over the next rise. See...it's not just you or me that's using that stretch of road. It's ol' Uncle Joe or Aunt Sue that throws a monkey wrench in the machinery.

The situations you describe are pretty realistic, but pretty easily avoidable. When you're on an open highway in the prairies.

I still insist that it is NOT government's job to protect us from ourselves. They just say they're doing that while raking in the billions of dollars.

 

[Jamie C.]

The truth is that travelling "too" fast doesn't kill anyone. The "too" fast implies an opinion on someone's part, not a fact. Driving faster than you can handle or traffic conditions permit kills people, that is a fact and the only fact. I drive at speeds you might consider "too" fast all the time but the Germans still think that highways should be highways.

Now why do people say silly stuff like this?

Deavis, would you not say that "Driving faster than you can handle or traffic conditions permit" = "Driving too fast"?

If so, you're above-quoted statement either contradicts it's self, or your "fact" is only an opinion.

It may be perfectly acceptable to drive 100+ mph on the Autobahn. But the fact is, not every road is the Autobahn. ( You'd be dead in about 15 minutes if you tried to drive on the roads around here like you do there. )

And as for this:

Don't abuse the messenger because your elected officials are afraid to let you drive like a responsible adult.

Well, it might be a whole different story if more people actually did drive like a "responsible adult".

As 1911Tuner pointed out, a few states learned long ago what happens when you let some of 'em try to be "self-governing".

But as to that, here's the real question: Would folks really like it much if all the speed limit signs were taken down, here in the U.S., and people allowed to drive as fast as they wanted? Would any of you want to be out on the roads then?

I know I certainly wouldn't. And I wouldn't want the job of cleaning up the mess, either.

Oh, and just to bring this back around to "gun-related"... take the above scenario and apply it to firearms. How would it be, do you think, if all firearms laws were suddenly gone, and people could not only own a gun, but use it however and whenever they pleased?
This is, in essence, what a couple of you are suggesting should occur with vehicles and driving; No rules but the ones you make up yourself.

I don't know about the rest of you, but it doesn't sound like a helluva lot of fun to me.


J.C.

 

[Gnarkill]

Alright last night I posted this topic and I had taking sleeping medicine, so I wasn't on the ball.
Also, I wasn't rude, an *******, or snappy to them. I had just been fixing a computer (to no avail) for 2 hours before my little police run in and I was in a little bit of a bad mood. Getting pulled over generally doesn't put me in a better mood. I didn't say, "Hey pig, why'd you stop me? I've got more guns than your whole department in my car!"

Here's my thoughts on the subject. Speeding is NOT really a crime, it's perfectly safe as long as you are aware and have a vehicle in "good" shape.
As someone said, I only hit 80 for a second when switching roads or something, I was cruising at about 73ish in a 65. The cop said I was basically bouncing from lane to lane, which wasn't true. After patting me down and putting me in the back of the car, I was a little bothered. I feel that I shouldn't be treated like a criminal when I'm not, that's why I HATE traffic court. I have been pulled over, myself or with others, and I have never been asked to be put in the back of the car. They checked my VIN numbers and looked in the windows as thoroughly as they could trying to find a reason to search. They couldn't find any exposed guns, drugs, knives, hookers, so they couldn't give me a charge other than speeding. They also asked me how many guns I had with me, I dodged the question in order to prevent further harassment. I didn't say I had 8 guns with me and my hollow points go through kevlar, that would be dumb. But if I was a little bothered, then yes I was being rude. I was perfectly polite until I was harassed, then I was slightly annoyed. I told him I don't smoke or do drugs and purposely looked into his eyes so that he could see I haven't been (bloodshot.) I have a perfectly clean record other than an accident 6 years ago and a speeding ticket.

My car was obviously not hot, they should've known that the second they ran it and most criminals don't stick NRA stickers all over their car and then TELL the cops they have guns. The reality of it is that any law abiding citizen w/ CCW or w/ guns or whatever isn't going to start shooting out with the cops. I DO NOT like being treated like a criminal and that is what happened.
Also, going 75 in a 65 is perfectly safe, especially when noone is around. Speeding is NOT dangerous.

 

[Jamie C.]

Also, going 75 in a 65 is perfectly safe, especially when noone is around.

Problem is, someone was around: The police.

As for speeding not being a crime... Tell it to the judge.


J.C.

 

[Art Eatman]

And Jamie C provided as good a summary statement as this thread needs...

Art