Run in with the cops today...

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Although I don't agree with it, it is the law in the California:

California Penal Code Section 12316(c):

Hmmm, I don't think that is the correct section. IIRC, PC 12316 covers elementary and secondary schools, not colleges.

I believe the correct section applied to colleges is California Penal Code Section 626.9 which references

626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
[...]
(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or
possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or
buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research,
or administration by, a public or private university or college, that
are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it
is with the written permission of the university or college
president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college
authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a
university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary
entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are
prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.
[...]
(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer
as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of
Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the
federal government who is carrying out official duties while in
California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in
making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually
engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of
this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance
of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the
firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of
Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged
in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision
(e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.

Section (l) excludes CCW holders, BTW.


Dex };>=-
 
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CA aint all bad

Ask Jim March
http://www.equalccw.com/knifelaw.html#SECTION THREE
Section 626.10 is here reproduced in it's entirety, and briefly explained in the editor's notes and text below.

Short form: K-12 schools, no knife over 2.5" is legal except for certain work-related types (kitchen stuff for the chef, etc.). At Universities and Colleges, there's a ban on FIXED BLADES bigger than 2.5" but there's no problems with large folding knives that are otherwise not switchblades under PC653k.

626.10. (a) Any person, except a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in this state, a person summoned by any officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while the person is actually engaged in assisting any officer, or a member of the military forces of this state or the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick, knife having a blade longer than 21/2 inches, folding knife with a blade that locks into place, a razor with an unguarded blade, a taser, or a stun gun, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 244.5, any instrument that expels a metallic projectile such as a BB or a pellet, through the force of air pressure, CO2 pressure, or spring action, or any spot marker gun, upon the grounds of, or within, any public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison. [Ed. Note: This is the paragraph dealing with legal carry on K-12 school grounds. Note that folding lockblades bigger than 2.5" are banned. This applies to any adult on campus; there are exceptions for work-related stuff in part "C" through "G" below.]
(b) Any person, except a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in this state, a person summoned by any officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while the person is actually engaged in assisting any officer, or a member of the military forces of this state or the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick, or knife having a fixed blade longer than 21/2 inches upon the grounds of, or within, any private university, the University of California, the California State University, or the California Community Colleges is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison. [Ed. Note: This paragraph covers colleges and universities. There is still a ban on large fixed-blades, but large locking folders legal under Penal Code 653k are completely legal. This applies to any adult age 18 or over on campus, student or otherwise; there are exceptions for work-related stuff in part "C" through "G" below.]

(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) do not apply to any person who brings or possesses a knife having a blade longer than 21/2 inches or a razor with an unguarded blade upon the grounds of, or within, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or any private university, state university, or community college at the direction of a faculty member of the private university, state university, or community college, or a certificated or classified employee of the school for use in a private university, state university, community college, or school-sponsored activity or class.

(d) Subdivisions (a) and (b) do not apply to any person who brings or possesses an ice pick, a knife having a blade longer than 21/2 inches, or a razor with an unguarded blade upon the grounds of, or within, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or any private university, state university, or community college for a lawful purpose within the scope of the person's employment.

(e) Subdivision (b) does not apply to any person who brings or possesses an ice pick or a knife having a fixed blade longer than 21/2 inches upon the grounds of, or within, any private university, state university, or community college for lawful use in or around a residence or residential facility located upon those grounds or for lawful use in food preparation or consumption.

(f) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any person who brings an instrument that expels a metallic projectile such as a BB or a pellet, through the force of air pressure, CO2 pressure, or spring action, or any spot marker gun upon the grounds of, or within, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, if the person has the written permission of the school principal or his or her designee.

(g) Any certificated or classified employee or school peace officer of a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, may seize any of the weapons described in subdivision (a), and any certificated or classified employee or school peace officer of any private university, state university, or community college may seize any of the weapons described in subdivision (b), from the possession of any person upon the grounds of, or within, the school if he or she knows, or has reasonable cause to know, the person is prohibited from bringing or possessing the weapon upon the grounds of, or within, the school.

(h) As used in this section, "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death.

This is actually simpler than it looks :). Once you realize that there's ONE change between the K-12 rules in paragraph "A" and the college/university rules in "B", it all makes "sense". About as much as any weapons law does.
SECTION FOUR: LOCAL ORDINANCES AND ENFORCEMENT

This is the trickiest part.

Los Angeles and a few other SoCal cities have a town ordinance banning the carry of knives over 3". In SOME cases, it's phrased as a ban on big stuff of any sort carried openly, so that excludes fixed-blades and the open-carry of big folders, but you can still conceal (and LEAVE concealed until needed to save a life) a large folding knife.

San Francisco has an ordinance on knife carry, but it's only linked to simultaneous "illegal loitering". Clearly, this was meant as a "homeless control measure" of sorts, God only knows how old. Berkeley has a knife ordinance too.

But the reality is, local knife ordinances cannot be applied to people passing through on a major road, enforcement of all local ordinances is spotty unless you fit a "juvenile offender profile", and most cops don't even know their local knife ordinances.

If you're scrupulous about not violating state law, which I'd highly recommend, and you don't come across as a slimeball, the odds are vastly against your having problems. I've had a lot of cops see my street-carry pieces, and I've not had a confiscation or harassment yet.
 
Yup, Go Tigers!

Johnstone E 4th floor was my freshman year residence in Fall 2000.... Moved off campus after that. Tentatively planning to graduate computer engineering in May or summer 2005 (been co-oping all of 2003).

Do any of you guys make it for the football games?
 
I live about 2 1/2 hours down I-85, but haven't been able to get up there in over a decade. How pathetic is that?

From what I hear, I wouldn't recognize large parts of the campus anymore. But that's nothing new - I was and architecture major. I never saw anything but the inside of Lee Hall and whatever dorm I was living in at the time.

I really can't believe that ANY part of J'stone is still in use. Actually, I seem to remember something in the alumni mag about Clemson selling off the closet rifle racks. Wonder if they still have 'em?
 
Johnstone A is the only part thats still in use/hasn't been demolished yet.

The gun racks were gone by the time I lived in Johnstone E.... and the campus has changed considerably in just the ~3.5 short years I've been here.
 
Two days later, his CBR-600 was somehow dropped on both sides while being towed for being parked in a faculty spot before 4:30... an offence that normally only rates a $15 ticket. At no other time have I heard of a vehicle being towed for said offense.

I do hope your ex-roommate "somehow" pursued legal action against anyone involved in this. Maybe they have the right to tow, but I don't think they have the right to destroy property while doing it!

(You did WHAT to my :cuss: ing bike? :confused: :what: :fire: )
 
shermans

you know the last time cadets did that they ran out of gas on King street, spoiled it for the rest of us,

actually they just recently refurbished the tank, new paint and everything, except one thing, the engine has been disconnected from the tranny, and though cadets are smart, thats a bit more than we can handle.
 
Dex,

As I said in my post, he MAY be guilty of a crime by possessing the ammunition on the grounds of the college. Yes, the 626 PC section specifies what it is referring to when the law says "school" as opposed to "community college", "college" or "university" however 12316 PC does not. Remember the old axiom about the word "assume" making an "a$$" out of "u" and "me"? I would hate to be the "a$$" hauled to jail because I assumed the word "school" does not apply to colleges in section 12316 PC;) .

The above being said, a request to the Attorney General's office or even the local D.A.'s Office for clarification of the matter BEFORE having the ammunition on ANY school grounds would, IMHO be a good idea. But then again, maybe I am just a little paranoid, I know how cops can get:evil: .
 
Lets see here....

Quick test for security guards:

A radio call comes in informing you of explosives in a vehicle.
Knowing that terrorists will likely make it so that tampering could be detected and trigger an explosion, a trained campus patrol officer should take which action FIRST:

a) Call higher authorities such as local police or sherrif, ask for bomb disposal unit.

b) Seal off an area 100 yards or more around suspect vehicle.

c) Personally investigate the vehicle before making a determination by checking to see if the doors are locked and trunk is secure

d) Grab the slim jim in the corner of the office and immediately get the vehicle open, do a thorough search of the vehicle, trunk, and all packages therein and report to the dispatch center if you find any explosives.

You have 25 minutes to answer this question....



---------------------

As for guns on school property, god how things have changed. When I got my LE degree in 1987 I used to DAILY carry a revolver and sometimes also a semi-auto pistol on campus in a briefcase for use on the pistol range that was there for students taking the shooting classes. It was not common, but I was not the only student that did this. Mostly, cops taught the classes and nobody gave a ****.

That range is now closed, a beautiful underground range with 25 and 50 yard positions, now turned into classrooms.

Much has changed in this awful state.

-------------

Dont even get me started whining about how I wish I could get a decent paying job in another state where houses do not cost a BARE minimum of 250k with a 90 minute commute.... and 500k if you want the 30 min version.

Charles
 
Before you make any more posts about security guards and rent a cops: realize that CSU and UC police are sworn state police and have juristiction over all of the state. So instead of continuing to make yourselves sound stupid, quit brining it up. Now if you want to focus on the fact that they decided to break into a "car with explosives" in it, that is a valid complaint.

I remember when I used to work for the UCLA PD, someone called in a round of 9mm ammunition in one of the parking structures. I would have just picked it up and thrown it in the trash. That is big city liberals for you.
 
Here at USC, we have two different breeds of LEO's. The guys in the patrol cars that are actually doing some good, and get great traning. They are the cutting edge in law enforcement. They get all the "Inspector Gadget" items under grants and develop ways for local and state LEO to use them. But then there is the parking patrol......
Can you say Keystone Cops!?
 
what Navahonpaleface said! Ammo boxes in plain view, (anything of value in plain view ,really) is asking for a rock through the window followed by a thourough "search" !:uhoh: Be glad the "officers" were going to use a slim jim instead of a rock. That said, you certainly have cause for complaint, however, I would consider the ramifications. Campuses are comparatively small areas, and you could find it's more trouble than it's worth. (Tickets, whether deserved or not, waiting for you to leave the campus watering hole, etc.) You can be assured that they wrote down your plate and physical description. If you go to their boss on this, they will get an a** chewing, and will have YOUR liscense plate.
Choose you battles wisely, and gather as much intel as you can before the battle. I do commend you for attending a Politically Correct Training Facility (spelled College) and still having the will, ability and desire to shoot!:D Good Luck!
 
My Goodness! Campus POLICE?

With arrest powers, and sovereign immunity, and everything? I must be getting old, or something.

This was unheard of when I was at Ga. Tech in late 60s-early70s.

We had security, with watchmen's clocks and no weapons. If a student got rowdy, the RA or Dean of students handled it. For actual crimes, it was Atlanta police; after all, there was no defined "campus": public streets ran all through the place, with many private houses in among and between the school buildings. I hear it's lately gotten worse, with Official School Police, and gates and checkpoints, and suchlike bullying.

Weapons in the dorms? Not allowed officially, but the way to do it was to give the bolt from your rifle to the RA. Pistols were easier to hide and therefore not mentioned to anyone.
 
Orthonym, just about every state-run university in the nation employes a sworn police force. it is the rule rather than the exception.
 
thefitzvh: You were wrong to leave your ammo in plain sight, but--unless it's illegal to have on campus--they were wrong to try an illegal search.

I would have gotten their names & badge numbers (w/o saying anything offensive, of course..;) ), gone to the REAL police, and filed an attempted B&E report against them. Even if no action is taken, a paper trail has been started that could end up biting the campus keystones in the tail later....

I graduated Baylor several years ago, and I know there's little love b/t the Baylor rent-a-cops & the Waco PD. They would have ENJOYED cuffing & dragging the "Bear Patrol" downtown...:evil:
 
Orthonym:

I was a campus cop for a few years while I was a student in the late 80's. I've got some fascinating stories from those days, that are OT/not relevant here.


The way it worked was that there were 3 tiers:

The 3 rotating shift Sergeants were actual sworn peace officers, with guns that they mostly kept locked up in their office, arrest powers, the whole 9 yards.

The next tier was about a dozen uniformed campus cops. They weren't sworn peace officers, but none of the students knew that, and since the sergeant generally didn't carry his sidearm, there was no way you'd know it.

When the president of the college was in a mood to crush dissent, these two tiers would be the hatchet men. {grrr.}

The third tier was about 2 dozen student work study cops (like me) who wore an orange "campus police" vests, and did things like patrol a given area with a radio or man the guard posts at the dorm entrances, and listen for sounds of folks in distress.

When the state changed its policy on parking tickets, allowing the college to keep most of the revenues, the whole student tier was converted to parking patrol overnight, and the ticket fines went up by a factor of 10 :what:

Since we were no longer doing anything useful, and the situaton was unconscionable, I quit about a month later.
 
Orthonym, just about every state-run university in the nation employes a sworn police force. it is the rule rather than the exception.

Man, I'm glad somebody finally said it. It was driving me nuts. If it's a state school, most likely, they're state cops not rent-a cops.
 
When I was in college ('84), the guy down the hall had a unregistered full-auto M16 he had swiped as parts from a US Army armory when he was in the Reserves. Cool gun! He also had a 1911 wrapped up in a towel.
 
Clemson Class of '74

Four years in Johnston Hall--3 years in the honest to goodness metal walled Cans. Had to go to my senior year before I had a chair with arms and a bed that was NOT and army cot. 3 full years of steam heat complete with steam hammer in the night and no A/C in the spring.

Most notable features to me was the metal walls and thin mason board between rooms. My closet had a rifle rack in. Never had firearms in my room (against rules) but I was on the fencing team and I had a dandy collection of dangerous equipment.

Does the Pershing Rifles still use military rifles or have they been browbeat into using cutout rifles and yelling "bang." Really enjoyed watching the Pershing Rifles do their thingy.
 
Before you take any action make sure you weren't doing anything illegal.

In NJ, hollow point ammo is illegal outside of your house and the range.

So if those were two boxes of hollow point, you'd be in trouble.

Once you confirmed you weren't doing anything wrong, then consider making a stink.
 
They can't search your car without due cause. Having ammo is not enough to search your car without your permission. You could have sued them for illegal search. I would have.
 
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