Two officers dead after 14-hour stand-off

[Edward429451]

I would suppose that it takes a special kind of idiot (no disrespect intended) to kick in a door that has just been slammed in your face.

And with no warrant either?

Kicking in a door is an act of violence. Is it reasonable to assume that the man would continue his violent behavior if he were allowed to gain entry?

Case closed as it were.

 

[B_Scott]

If you are an uninvited guest and someone closes a door in your face and it hits your face will you kick the door down?

Someone kicking my door down in the middle of the day is not reason enough to shoot him. I gues we will never find out for certain if he displayed a weapon or physically threatened the homeowners.

 

[TheeBadOne]

Where is the evidence of a door being kicked down?

 

[Sportcat]

Yea? I've not read anywhere where the officer kicked in the door - or orginally had any reason to.

 

[TheeBadOne]

Deputy Wilson

From the news accounts and neighbors, sounds like Deputy Wilson had a gun drawn on him and was taken hostage, forced to enter the house. He was then handcuffed, and then executed.
If someone wants to go off an a wild tangent speculating with the intent of putting the murdered Officers in the wrong, so be it. Plenty of info on 4 pages that don't point to that, but if you're not thirsty, you won't drink.
One could speculate that they murdered Deputy Wilson in cold blood just because he was black (racism) and they are "white rednecks".
So far we haven't heard that (and I see no reason to, just pointing out how pointless baseless specualtion is).

 

[Edward429451]

My thoughts were based on this:

Bixby said he acted in self-defense because sheriff's Sgt. Daniel Wilson, 37, tried to force his way into his parents' home on state Highway 72 just west of downtown Abbeville.

I'm not pretending to know the facts, just opioninating on what is posted in the thread...

Castle doctrine, and all that. If we citizens do not hold the State to stringent guidelines, there will be no guidelines. I'm not trying to pin it on the officer or the state. Just seeing that once again, the citizen is getting the short end of the stick, and surmising what possibly could be the basis of the train of thought that led to the incident. People do not shoot cops that walk up to their door for no reason. You LEO's are doing the same thing in reverse by opinionating that the citizens were loonies and it couldn't have been the officers fault.

 

[Sportcat]

There's a special place in hell if these "people" executed a hand-cuffed officer.

 

[TheeBadOne]

Shortest/most complete story I could find

Sergeant Wilson and Constable Donnie Ouzts, of the Abbeville County Magistrate's Office, were shot and killed after Sergeant Wilson went to the home of a two men upset that the state was taking a small piece of their land through imminent domain to widen Highway 72. When Sergeant Wilson arrived to discuss a complaint by highway crews that they had been harassed by the homeowners, he was taken hostage by the suspects. The suspect’s then called the sheriff’s office and told them that a deputy had been shot. Constable Ouzts and another Deputy went to the location to investigate. When the arrived, the suspects opened fire, striking Constable Ouzts. The other Deputy was able to retreat to a safe location and call of back-up.

A South Carolina State Trooper who arrived seconds after the call for help went out was able to use his patrol car as a shield to block any gunfire that might come from the house and pull Constable Ouzts to safety. He died from the gunshot wound while en route to the hospital.

The third suspect, who was at another location, was threating to open fire on civilians in the area if either of the other two suspects in the house were harmed. She was taken into custody a short time later.

When additional back-up arrived, a 12 hour stand-off ensued. The Sheriff's office used an armored vehicle with a battering ram to open the fortified front door of the house. The vehicle tore down the door and much of the front porch, but it also severed a gas line, causing a minor explosion. Deputies, worried that the suspects had set up a booby-trap that would kill everyone in the home and perhaps nearby officers did not allow the Fire Department to extinguish the fire, instead about a dozen Officers grabbed fire extinguishers and came out from behind their cover to put out the blaze.

After the fire was extinguished, Deputies sent in a robot to try to figure out what was going on inside. A camera on the robot captured a picture of Sergeant Wilson and evidence the suspects were still inside.

Suddenly, the suspects opened fire with high powered rifles. In the ensuing gun battle so many rounds were fired that the Sheriff's Department had to send for an additional supply of ammunition. When the gunfire stopped, one suspect surrendered, but the 2nd suspect held his ground. Unknown to Deputies, that suspect had been seriously wounded.

After waiting for two hours and not hearing anything from the remaining suspect, the Deputies sent in another robot and captured pictures of the remaining suspect wounded. Deputies were able to enter the house and take him into custody.

Sergeant Wilson’s body was found inside the house. He had been handcuffed by the suspects and shot. It was not known to the department until after the raid that Deputy Wilson had been killed by the suspects.

A later investigation revealed that the attack on the officers was planned by the three suspects: a man, his wife and son. The two men are charged with two counts of murder and one count of criminal conspiracy. The female, who was not present in the house at the time of the incident was arrested and charged with one count of accessory before the fact of murder and one count of criminal conspiracy.

 

[Edward429451]

I agree with what sportcat said.

 

[Edward429451]

If it went down just like in the latest account potsed by TBO, then the people were very wrong and should suffer the consequences.

But we all know how slanted the media writes things up, so who knows?

We better give the benefit of the doubt to the cops and crucify the people just to be on the safe side. After all, we know that the Branch Dividians did fire first and set fire to their own house where their children were...

 

[Sportcat]

I feel sorry for the Public Defender that will most likely have to respresent these "people."

 

[TheeBadOne]

I read that your thoughts were based on the words of a cold blooded murder after he was in custody, playing for the cameras while thinking about a needle in his arm...

 

[hammer4nc]

Where is the evidence of a door being kicked down?

Thanks for the correction, TBO. The current statement by the defendant is that the first officer attempted forced entry (without warrant). I think his words were "kicked the door "in"" (not necessarily kicked "down"). I stand corrected. In answer to your question, though, according to news reports, the front door was pretty much destroyed by the 10 ft battering ram the SLED attached to the front of the APC, that was used in the final assault.

From the news accounts and neighbors, sounds like Deputy Wilson had a gun drawn on him and was taken hostage, forced to enter the house. He was then handcuffed, and then executed.

I've been following the story, haven't seen any witness reports describing the Wilson encounter. Please post the relevent link. Thanks.

 

[TheeBadOne]

I stand corrected. In answer to your question, though, according to news reports, the front door was pretty much destroyed by the 10 ft battering ram the SLED attached to the front of the APC, that was used in the final assault.

So what you're saying is that the door that "was kicked in" wasn't kicked in, until much later when 2 Officers had already been murdered and the SWAT team has sat waiting and negotiating and finally moved it, right?

 

[hammer4nc]

I'll try to answer this straight. To repeat, the claim is that officer Wilson attempted forced entry (without warrant, as affirmed by the sheriff). Whether or not he used his foot to kick it, or his shoulder, is perhaps an open question. You asked for evidence. Can we agree that any evidence on the door itself (if any) from the first incident was likely destroyed by the battering ram? Sounds likely to me.

Now, how about posting your links for the witness accounts?

It would be nice if this thread weren't locked for inflammatory language, OK? Thanks.

 

[TheeBadOne]

Here you go

Suspect in Abbeville shooting had warrants

(Concord, New Hampshire-AP) Dec. 10, 2003 - New Hampshire authorities say a suspect in the shooting deaths of two officers in Abbeville County this week was wanted in his former home state.

Steven Bixby, 36, who formerly lived in Haverhill, New Hampshire, and his father, Arthur Bixby, are charged with two counts of murder and one county of conspiracy. Investigators believe the family was angry with the state and federal government about a Highway 72 road widening project. Steven Bixby plead not guilty in an arraignment Tuesday.

Constable Donnie M. Ouzts and Abbeville County Sheriff's Deputy were shot and killed during the course of a nearly 14-hour standoff Monday night at Arthur Bixby's Union Church Road home off Highway 72 in Abbeville County.

Steven Bixby is wanted in New Hampshire on probation violations stemming from two traffic convictions. Grafton County, New Hampshire, Sheriff's Captain Paul Leavitt says Bixby was convicted in 1992 of driving with a revoked license and drunken driving.

Two years later an arrest warrant was issued after Bixby did not contact the state to open a probation case and for not paying his fine. The court renewed the warrant in October, based on the probation violations.

Steven Bixby mentioned New Hampshire's "Live Free or Die" motto as justification for the stand-off earlier this week. He told reporters he'd rather die if he can't be free from police intrusion. Bixby says he was defending his parents' home.

Bixby told reporters in the courtroom that he is a true American, "I love this country. I just can't stand the bastards in it." He says he shot Deputy Danny Wilson because the officer forced his way into his home, "Why did I do it? We didn't do it. They started it, and, if we can't be any freer than that in this country, I would just as soon die. ... A sheriff kicking the door in just cause he had it slammed in his face? He didn't have a warrant."

Bixby continued his defiance over the episode even when questioned about the high price, "Never a regret that my dad had to get shot. I don't know how he's doing. Like I said, he's 74-years-old. We have a right to defend our property." Arthur Bixby was in critical condition Tuesday.

Authorities say Wilson was only visiting the home because transportation workers complained the Bixbys threatened them last week when they began work on widening the road in front of the Bixby home. The state says it purchased the right of way to the Bixby's land from the previous owner more than 40 years ago.

Steven's mother and Arthur's wife, Rita Bixby, was also arraigned Tuesday on a charge of accessory before the fact of murder, conspiracy and failure to report a crime. Rita Bixby told the judge she was not guilty and hung her head when he told her she could face life in prison if convicted.

Stewart says officers found anti-American literature, suicide notes and other items inside the house and the apartment.

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1558490&nav=0RaMJae1
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[NIGHTWATCH]

BOTTOM LINE: This family had the cahoonahs to say NO.

My heart goes out to the cops that died but, if I were a cop in that situation, my conscience would not allow me to enforce such an action. Knowing myself, I would have turned on whoever gave the order and told him to go ____ himself.

Its interesting how the article states that they had planned an "assault" on the officers, rather than saying that they were prepared to defend their home.

 

[cordex]

TBO,
Perp sounds like a scumbag. A real kneebiter.
But ... you claimed:

From the news accounts and neighbors, sounds like Deputy Wilson had a gun drawn on him and was taken hostage, forced to enter the house. He was then handcuffed, and then executed.

You were then asked to provide evidence that this occurred as you claimed it did. The news article you subsequently posted did not provide any supporting evidence for your theory.

My heart goes out to the cops that died but, if I were a cop in that situation, my conscience would not allow me to enforce such an action. Knowing myself, I would have turned on whoever gave the order and told him to go ____ himself.

Nightwatch,
The officer in question was not enforcing the emminent domain claim. He was investigating a threat reported by surveyors. If I were a police officer, I would absolutely be okay with investigating that. However, I'd probably refrain from illegally entering a home without a warrant. Whether or not this officer did so or was taken hostage is still in question.

 

[hammer4nc]

Yea, I saw that article. Still, Officer Wilson had no warrants (confirmed by the sheriff). Minor traffic warrants from another state, are really immeterial to this case, aren't they? (Except to demonize the defendant).

I see nothing in the link you posted, about witness accounts of the Wilson visit, except for Bixby's testimony:

A sheriff kicking the door in just cause he had it slammed in his face? He didn't have a warrant."

Feel free to post your link, backing up your statement:

From the news accounts and neighbors, sounds like Deputy Wilson had a gun drawn on him and was taken hostage, forced to enter the house. He was then handcuffed, and then executed.

Which news accounts? Which neighbors? thanks.

 

[TheeBadOne]

hammer4nc

Please provide the link where the Sheriff confirms Wilson booted the door in.

Thank you

 

[cordex]

Please provide the link where the Sheriff confirms Wilson booted the door in.

Hold on a second ... I thought you had proof in the form of witnesses that Deputy Wilson was taken hostage and subsequently executed.

Or was that just as speculative as the opposing theory that maybe the deputy was shot in self-defense as he illegally entered the home and was handcuffed while still alive?

 

[ScottsGT]

If the property was purchased by the state MORE THAN 40 years back, it looks like the fight should have been in court with the current land owners and the sellers of the property they bought it from. Looks like maybe it was mis-represented at closing?
I think these guys (Bixbys) were just looking for trouble. Maybe the state should have provided proof that this was a purchase long before they ever came into the picture?

 

[TheeBadOne]

Do you want to just slam at me, or do you want to debate the incident? If the former, go to PM, if the later, discuss facts of the case. No link for eyewitnesses is yet posted, just what investigators have said. Absolutely no evidence supporting the murderers posted either. It usually seems to be the same biased individuals who see the murder of an LEO as a ralling call for "the opressed". This thread has born that out nicely.
The whole crux of 'The Police were wrong" is based on a murderer, in custody, in court, saying, "Ah, it's not my fault, ah, the Deputy booted the door in, ah....".
Followed by completely overlooking several thing. The Deputy was cuffed. The Deputy was killed.
The 2 Officers responding to see why the Deputy wasn't answering the radio were fired on when they drove up normally and exited their car in the driveway. The Officer killed was shot in the back from 25 yards away as he was exiting the car. The surviving Officer was able to run away and summon help.
Also, don't forget the phone calls made to the Police, "There's been a Deputy shot. It's begun".
Hmmm....sounds like they were just itching for a confrontation a were waiting for an opportunity to start one. Killing a Deputy was that start, firing on 2 more continuted, etc.

White washing this all away by saying, "Ah, according to the murder in custody, ah, the Deputy may have pushed the door open (no mention any threatening action by the Deputy by the murder), ah, so all is okay" is beyond biased, it's irrational.
If someone wants to believe in the Easter Bunny that's fine. If they choose to believe that these people are innocent victims that's fine too, but it doesn't make it right.

All the best

TBO

 

[cordex]

Do you want to just slam at me, or do you want to debate the incident?

Slam you? Not at all!
You regularly demand evidence when someone makes a claim that you question. Surely you don't hold yourself to a lesser standard. It is sad that you immediately snap back with accusations that everyone is slamming you because they're simply asking the same thing of you.

As I said, from all reports the murderer was a scumbag - even though I share his dislike of emminent domain. It certainly appears to me that the killing of the two LEOs was entirely unjustified.

However....

If you don't want someone else make an unsupported claim, you really shouldn't do the same.

It usually seems to be the same biased individuals who see the murder of an LEO as a ralling call for "the opressed". This thread has born that out nicely.

Yep. There are folks like that. But there are also those who immediately approach any LEO shooting (whether it was the LEO who was shot, or the LEO who did the shooting) as it being unquestionably in favor of the officer in question.

In this case, the officers look to be the real victims and the perps to be doubly deserving of the needle you keep begging for, but I'm apalled that you would so readily resort to complaining that you're being unfairly targeted when people require of you exactly that which you require of them.

 

[TheeBadOne]

cordex

My post was not specifically aimed directly at you Sir (though some parts may or may not be pertinent).

All the best

TBO