Two officers dead after 14-hour stand-off

[BluesBear]

ROFLMAO!

 

[Roadkill Coyote]

Edward429451

"So they called in after the initial shots fired. That doesn't mean they were planning and wanted to kill more LEO's. What're they supposed to do, NOT CALL?"

What purpose did calling serve, other than to cause more officers to respond to the scene? All attempts to open negotiation appear to have been rebuffed, so it probably wasn't an attempt to prevent further bloodshed. Since the second officer to arrive was shot, it wasn't to summon assistance to take away the first Deputy.

What results would any reasonable person think that those calls would bring? Do you think the arrival of Officer Ouzts was predictable, and what happened to him when he arrived?

oldfart

We don't know what happened! We won't know what happened either! Unless one or two members of this board is willing to go to the site and interview the principals in this event and then report to the rest of us, we will have to rely on reports filtered through several layers of biased governmental and media editing.

If you have already decided that you can't trust anything that the media says, but you are willing to continue to accept negative information,

these situations are increasing in frequency

then your revolution is a self fufilling prophecy. Just because this thread is falling short of openmindedness doesn't mean it isn't worth a try.

 

[Edward429451]

Well I wish it weren't so hom. But I just keep doin the math, and doin the math and it just don't add up is the reality of it. There's just too many people dieing for the state to be given the unconditional benefit of the doubt all the time. There's no effective redress of grievances anymore either. I want to be convinced otherwise but it goes against logic & comprehension.

 

[oldfart]

As I have said before: All governments and all civilizations fall-- eventually. The more entrenched the government or civilization-- the harder the fall. Ours is not immune.

I am nearly seventy years old and in failing health so it is unlikely I will see the end of this revolution. I can only hope my children and grandchildren survive it.

 

[Edward429451]

Roadkill, shots were already fired and there were men down. The had very little options left to them at that point.

 

[Roadkill Coyote]

All the available information suggests that one shot had been fired at that point, from a rifle, into Deputy Wilson's Chest at short range. According to a witness that one shot was heard less than a minute after Deputy Wilson arrived, and in the aftermath, his hat was left laying on the porch. We'll no doubt learn more as the evidence is recovered and analyzed, but based on whats available now, it would appear to me that the Bixby's lack of options probably resulted from their own actions. I certainly see nothing in the available information, in history, or the social dynamics, that lead me to attribute far more validity to the Bixby's story, at the expense of what SLED is saying. If you have a case to make about SLED being part of the insidious advance of the police state, feel free to make it. Til then, I'm gonna make my call based upon what informations available, filtered of course, through my personal experiance.

 

[Wildalaska]

No I aint gonna let my blood pressure drop. This is becoming so predictable. Its absurd, bizarre......I cant beleive what Im reading....

Armed citizen shoots bad guy. Hell no matter what the reports say, a cheer goes up. Even if the shots are in the back.

Cop shoots some ghetto rapper...Just doing his job., hey no problem.

O but cold blooded cop killers...heck as long as they leave a militia pamphlet in their home, and spout some RIGHT WING LOONEY NONSENCE that they learned in some furtive little pinhead Klaven and all of their apologists on this Board are gonna jump up and say...

"O well, so bad, yet provoked..."
"Golly, thats horrible, but I understand..."
" Wow, dont get me worng Im against cop killing, but this is gonna happen more and more..."
"Ya know, I dont know all the facts, but Randy Weaver..."
"Killing cops is bad, but if you look at the newspaper reports it looks like..."
"Ya know, the Ninth Circuit is the casue of this, I smell revolution..."

Blah blah blah, ad nauseum, ad absurdio, ad infintum

Yes, sorry boys, sorry to offend, but you that try to excuse this conduct, are apologist.......and maybe even worse...allies...becasue unless this conduct is condemned, in the most clear and understandable terms, without the "buts" and "maybes" and "perhaps" and "i told ya so", some other PINHEAD with an axe to grind against the world because his mommy didnt toilet train him right is gonna think that he maybe he can find all sorts of support if he decideds to raise the spark of revolution by offing a few "jackbooted thugs" while howling misquotes from the Federalist papers.

I havent seen such a level of unreality since I last checked on the Stormfront Board (and golly they got a real big RKBA section, great allies huh, wonder ifin we got a few members over there positng here hmmm)....

I say its time to cut out this bull...this tin hat crap is getting old. And it makes us all look bad...

And before you pass this off as a rant from one of the sheeple, or traitor, or whatever other silly little slogan is tossed out at those who dont toe the tinfoil hat party line, let me tell you that the great mass of the Chicken Littles (the sky is falling, the gov't is coming) has NONE of the experience that me and my family have with bad ??? government...Im the one with relatives in unmarked ditches at Baba Yar, not you. I know what goverment is capable of. And I have no fear whatsoever that the government is coming for me simply because they get into firefights with the dregs of society.


WildpissedoffAlaska

 

[WvaBill]

Understand? I dont care what their reason was. I dont care what sort of goofy crap they beleive. They are killers and should be SPECIFICALLY AND UNANIMOUSLY CONDEMNED by everyone, no excuses, no explanations, no rationalizations, no nothing other than these are mad dogs who have no place in the USA.

Does SC have the defense, "He needed killin." If not send them to a state that does.

Anyone defending these killers, please note who walked away.


These people are not worth me reading this . It kept comin to the top so much I finally had to see what the fuss was about.



:banghead:

edited for form

 

[agricola]

what a depressing thread - from the stories it doesnt sound as if the 63-year old first officer had any chance to call for help, so the "get off my property" business doesnt seem to be likely IMHO. Or I guess the gubbermint sent a 63 year old man by himself to confiscate the property/guns/whatever.

its like the last fool who shot the cop because he was wanted for indecently assaulting two underage girls - these actions are 100% the fault of the civilian and the US should be relieved that the Bixby's will hopefully either hang, be electrocuted or recieve a shot for this (and I would also say that the wife and other son should not be ruled out of this).

oh, and to add to wildalaska's excellent last post with some of my own experiences, all of this "wait and see, none of us were there" nonsense doesnt seem to apply in the weekly lets-bash-the-UK-thread.

 

[Dog]

I don't agree or side with either party on this yet not enough information.

agricola, from the stories it doesnt sound as if the 63-year old first officer had any chance to call for help

Situational Awareness

 

[hammer4nc]

Lets review available information:

Land owners were first assured by the DOT, that roadwork would not take their property. The homeowners believed the story.

It became apparent, only when workmen started laying out stakes and trenching!, that these previous assurances were outright lies. Their land would be taken. No negotiations, no compensation, hell, not even notification. So much for those who applaud when government invokes eminent domain.

Homeowners, shocked, raise red flags by calling and writing everyone. The only response by minor DOT supervisor: "We WILL keep the project on schedule, and I'll get the SHERIFF to back me up."

A reasonable person would expect that DOT, when presented with evidence that they were violating someone's rights, would suspend activity before the damage was done. At least investigate the claims. Instead, the FIRST response is to invoke police powers, and for what? So some minor bureaucrat won't fall behind in his pinchy work schedule. Typical government arrogance. We'll do it because we can, by God.

Sure enough, the posse is called, and they force their way into the man's home (without a warrant). They gave as much deference to expressed citizen claims, as the statist apologists on this thread. Loonie rednecks, submit. End of story.

And the statists are OUTRAGED when force is met with force. Oldfart is right, this story will repeat itself, UNTIL government sees fit to even pretend to follow its own laws and rules.

And you know what? Two things are clear. Aside from complete disregard for the incipient facts that led up to the final confrontation, there seems to be an urgency for retribution, best summed up as "rot in hell, scum, and I'll pull the switch on old sparky."

Who's leading the call for execution? Those who purport to wear the badge, who will get the call the next time some minor bureaucrat decides to flex his muscle against loonie redneck citizen. Well and duly noted.

 

[B_Scott]

The old man was ignorant.
He resorted to violence because he did not get off his butt and do things the correct way.
He should have gotten everything in writing.
He should have had the paperwork together when they came.
shoulda...woulda...coulda...

 

[buzz_knox]

Yup. But that is not what were are talking about IN THIS CASE. Continually referring to unrelated abuses of eminent domain and even Ruby Ridge to provide context to this situation is no different than Chuckie Schumer lumping all gun owners in with felon gang bangers. Each case should be decided on its own merits. These people (and I use that term loosely) were way out of line and I hope they suffer a painful execution at the hands of the dreaded state.

As an employee with a federal agency who has been threatened with death while defending an inverse condemnation case, I've got to agree. If you don't like what the gov't is doing, take them to court and have a jury determine what reasonable compensation is.

 

[cordex]

Sure enough, the posse is called, and they force their way into the man's home (without a warrant).

One guy does not a posse make.
No credible evidence that the old guy forced his way into their home.

Look, I'm as anti-statist as anyone on this board (except, possibly Chris Rhines), but let's at least rely on the facts in our objections.

The concept of Emminent Domain is wrong. Vile. Disgusting. At best, it is theft from a few so that many can benefit. If you believe that is acceptable, you're in some rather sticky company.

Still, shooting an old cop because he's investigating threats made on construction workers isn't fighting against Emminent Domain. It is murder.

The first deputy was shot 1 minute after he pulled up into their driveway. A lot can happen in a minute, but somehow I doubt the old guy went dynamic and kicked in the door in the first minute of his presence there. Moreover, I seriously doubt he did anything to warrant being shot. Being asked to leave, maybe, but not to be shot in the chest with a rifle.

Yes, sorry boys, sorry to offend, but you that try to excuse this conduct, are apologist.......and maybe even worse...allies.

Yup. True enough, Wild. I feel the same way about this incident. And about police abuse of power.

If you don't like what the gov't is doing, take them to court and have a jury determine what reasonable compensation is.

That isn't always an option, Buzz. And it doesn't always get results.
But it sure as hell comes before blasting your local Sheriff's deputy for knockin' too hard on your screen door.

 

[buzz_knox]

That isn't always an option, Buzz. And it doesn't always get results

When is using the legal recourse allowed not an option? As for not getting the results sought, I've only seen it fail when the landowners lied about the value of their property and infuriated the jury.

 

[Intune]

"Calls were made in Abbeville to at least two people saying 'The first officer has been shot,' and 'It has begun,' " Stewart said. "Because of those calls, at least a couple of people rode by there and noticed the deputy's car sitting in the yard and nothing else around. Those people called 911."

And from this report you make the flying leap to this??

According to all reports, the Bixbys made phone calls that any reasonable person would expect to cause other officers to rush to the scene.

Wow! Where does it say the Bixbys made those calls? Could it have been a neighbor who made the calls? (Insert “yes†here.) Were the calls made to an official agency, dispatcher or police station? Would such a call to 911 stating “shots fired, officer down†be a lot more effective in bringing LEOs in for an ambush than relying on people to drive by and hopefully call? Ya think?

Stewart said after Wilson arrived, two calls were made to unidentified people saying that an officer had been shot and "It's begun." Stewart would not say who made the calls.

Hmm, call me “unreasonable.†It would go along with this personal attack-

Edward & Intune, If either one of you fell on a pin...

You would blind in both eyes.

12-34hom.

THAT’S the way to address ones valid position in a discussion. I remember something about a log and an eye…

We'll no doubt learn more as the evidence is recovered and analyzed, but based on whats available now, it would appear to me that the Bixby's lack of options probably resulted from their own actions.

Agreed, although I would add stupid to “actions.†We don’t know what happened on that porch. If Bixby had explained what was going on the deputy may have walked over and told the crew to hold up until there was legal clarification. I want to hear the other side of the story before the state’s broad brush of anti-American, militia, extremist, wife beating, communist etc, gets into a rhythm. That’s all, both sides.

 

[TheeBadOne]

hammer4nc:

Lets review available information:

Land owners were first assured by the DOT, that roadwork would not take their property. The homeowners believed the story.

It became apparent, only when workmen started laying out stakes and trenching!, that these previous assurances were outright lies. Their land would be taken. No negotiations, no compensation, hell, not even notification. So much for those who applaud when government invokes eminent domain.

Homeowners, shocked, raise red flags by calling and writing everyone. The only response by minor DOT supervisor: "We WILL keep the project on schedule, and I'll get the SHERIFF to back me up."

A reasonable person would expect that DOT, when presented with evidence that they were violating someone's rights, would suspend activity before the damage was done. At least investigate the claims. Instead, the FIRST response is to invoke police powers, and for what? So some minor bureaucrat won't fall behind in his pinchy work schedule. Typical government arrogance. We'll do it because we can, by God.

Sure enough, the posse is called, and they force their way into the man's home (without a warrant). They gave as much deference to expressed citizen claims, as the statist apologists on this thread. Loonie rednecks, submit. End of story.

Where is the "available information" that you reviewed? You take a lot of liberties in believing a killers 2 sentences after the fact, and assuming the rest. You also skip over what has occured, and what physical evidence has been released so far and what a neighbor has said.
To me that's not very open minded.

 

[Edward429451]

Yeah this is pretty much beat to death at this point. With no real facts no one can say for sure who was right or wrong, but one thing stands clear.

People can be pushed too far and feeling they have nothing to lose, fight back in the only real way they can. I like what WildAlaska said in the other thread about cops knockin on doors..."They better treat me with utter respect..."

I think its a safe bet that the bixby's didn't feel 'utterly respected' that day. I'd also bet that I could have walked up to their door without being shot. Understanding human behavior and interaction is a cloudy issue at times but is usually always based on response. A soft answer turneth away wrath and is likely to defuse many situations. The problem a lot of times is when a citizen demands recognition of rights or respect, and the LEO takes offense at this affront to his authority, and responds in a manner that sends the message to the citizen that he better comply or things will not go well for him, which escalates the situation instead of defusing it.

It's highly likely that mistakes were made on both sides.

Have a nice day.

 

[TheeBadOne]

It's highly likely that mistakes were made on both sides.

It's highly likely that assumptions have been made...

 

[12-34hom]

Wildalaska' s last post and his thoughts on this incident sum it up for me.

As one poster also stated : this thread is depressing..

Amen to that brother.

12-34hom.

 

[TheeBadOne]

Bixbys unnerved some neighbors

(Abbeville-AP) Dec. 10, 2003 -- A neighbor of Steven Bixby says she once called police about the man accused of killing two Abbeville County officers earlier this week, but officers told her Bixby was just "a lot of hot air."

Shirley Surrett lives in the same apartment complex with Bixby. She says he used a radio reciever to listen to her phone calls. She called authorities after Bixby threatened her because he overheard something he did not like. She says the police told her to buy a new phone.

Plenty of people around Abbeville knew Bixby and his father Arthur and mother Rita. Some remember them as kind-hearted, while others saw a mean streak. Nearly all of them agree that they didn't like anyone messing with their property.

The Bixbys have all been charged in connection with the death of two officers and a 13-hour standoff that followed.

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1559504&nav=0RaPJbTe

 

[outfieldjack]

Hmmmmm

I'd also bet that I could have walked up to their door without being shot

Hmmm, I would not bet my life on that.

 

[Cosmoline]

I have no clue about all the details on this. But the quote about the power of the weapons is interesting. I expect your average .30'06 hunting rifle with HP or SP bullets would be far more potent than anything today's LEO's are used to dealing with. Indeed, I've heard some strikingly ignornant statements from LEO's (mostly urban LEOs) grossly underestimating what a regular hunting rifle can do. Standard vests offer no protection at all against a rifle bullet.

 

[TheeBadOne]

Bixby Family Letter To State Of South Carolina, Dec. 3, 2003

Arthur W. and Rita G. Bixby
Union Church Rd. PO Box 393
Abbeville, S.C. 29620


TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

We are the Owners of property, (land and building) located on the corner of Union Church Road (also 72) and Horton Drive in Abbeville, S.C. Due to the proposed widening of 72, the state of South Carolina is attempting to confiscate, (through the Department of Transportation) a critical portion of our property, without paying for same. In violation of the Fifth Amendment, (BILL OF RIGHTS) Of the united States Of America: “…No person shall…be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.†In Particular, but not limited thereto.

Though the project has been planned and confirmed since at least the Fall of 1999, no-one from the Department has approached us as to their intentions concerning our property. When we talked to Clint Scovil (D.O.T.) at the information meetings in Calhoun Falls and Abbeville, he denied that any portion of our property would be required.

Wednesday, December 03rd , 2003 the construction workers started digging across Union Church Road to lay pipe, (breaking the Abbeville water line, in the process) they placed a stake on the corner of our property, signifying their intentions of digging there. We went out and told them they were on PRIVATE PROPERTY. The property is posted “NO TRESPASSING!†Where they intended to dig was going to block us from our driveway, permanently! This has been going on with other property owners throughout Abbeville. Some of the property owners were approached/contacted, reached a settlement, and have been paid, others have not been contacted, their property has merely been taken. In Violation of law and discrimination.

After we told the construction workers, they were not going to dig on our property, they apparently called Glen McCaffrey (D.O.T.) Abbeville. Since we have our property posted he sent the construction worker to ask us to go out, which we did. We informed him too that point NO-ONE from the State had approached us! We informed him of our Boundary Markers and that he was on PRIVATE PROPERTY. The markers are on the exact boundary, they are not referred to as off-set. Our front corner on the s/e is 27.5 Ft. into “72â€, on the s/w side the marker is 23.13 Ft. into Union Church Road, (the center line which goes out into “72†to the point previously referred to). The property was surveyed in 1996 and re-surveyed in May of 2000 for confirmation. Copies of these documents were presented to Glen McCaffrey.

Yesterday, December 04th, 2003, McCaffrey came back with some documents which he presented to us that the state received right-of-way to construct Union Church Road and “72†in 1960. The persons alleged to have given right-of-way was not the owner of our property, which is FRAUD! Was he threatened, coerced, intimidated into signing a document on property which he did not own? The person, who owned our property, purchased same, October 1959. Ten months and one day before the alleged right-of-way. Just prior to his leaving, McCaffrey retorted to us that the construction would continue and they were going to dig on our property, which means they intend to take the corner of our property, move the utilities back onto our driveway, thus eliminating our driveway. Our response: You will be on posted, private property and will be treated as such, to which he told us he would have the authorities, Sheriff here.

The military is scattered all over the world allegedly protecting our rights. Wrong! Not our RIGHTS, but for the theft of oil and land. While they are gone, the people are preoccupied with the safety of the military, government is quickly taking away the rights of the people. The military should be in this country defending OUR RIGHTS!

The United States Code, Title 18, sect. 241 – Conspiracy against rights of citizens: “If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any citizen in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the united States, or because of his having so exercised the same; …They shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results, they shall be subject to imprisonment for any term of years or for life.â€

The United States Code, Title 18, sec.242. Deprivation of rights under color of law; “Whoever, under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any inhabitant of any State, territory, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the united States,….shall be fined not more than $1,000.00 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if death results shall be subject to imprisoned for any term of years or for life.†But not limited thereto.

Patrick Henry, of Virginia, said: “Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death. Death is not the worst of evils.â€

General, John Stark, of New Hampshire, said: “Live Free Or Die!â€

We the undersigned, echo those sentiments!

Sincerely,

(signature) Arthur W. Bixby

(signature) Rita G. Bixby

CC: To Numerous Persons

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http://www.thecarolinachannel.com/n...ecarolinachannel.com/news/2696748/detail.html

 

[geekWithA.45]