U.S. carbine, caliber .30, M1

[JCooperfan1911]

Greetings. In these hard time as you all know finding ammunition for the armalites and 9mms is a tough chore. I have found the .30 caliber carbine about the only gun in my safe that munitions can be obtained for a relatively acceptable price and that can be found on shelves otherwise laid bare.

While not a true combat gun by todays measure due to the impotence of the small .30 caliber carbine round I have found these small weapons to be a great introduction for women and children into the world of automatic rifles. They are also fun for plinking cans as they are very much like a larger .22 in regards to power, report, and recoil and young shooters are not afraid to fire it.

I recall Cooper not being a fan of the weapon. He cited an incident where a comrade in the Pacific was being attacked by a Japanese wielding a samurai sword. His friend accidentally pressed the magazine button when he meant to take off the safe, a common problem with the carbine. One round was in the chamber and the .30 caliber carbine failed to stop the samurai with a shot to the solar plexus. And we need not discuss the opinion of the later Korean vets and their thoughts on the effectiveness, or lack thereof, against the human waves and their thick winter clothing.

I still enjoy taking the U.S. carbine out to the range regardless for my above pointers. It is one of few options to find a readily abundant shell now. I can only hope this can pass and easy availability of .45 and .308 becomes again.

 

[AK103K]

I think the Carbine gets a bad rap a lot of times. Ive heard a lot of the stories too, but Ive heard a lot of war stories about a lot of things, and really have to wonder sometimes. Take all that stuff with a big grain of salt!

I think if you actually hit what youre aiming at, within their realistic range parameters, they will work just fine. And one plus with the Carbines is, they are easy to shoot and do just that. Its not their fault if you cant do your part.

As far as ammo goes, I can see places that sell it, may have it and not be selling a lot of it, as its not one of the popular rounds these days.

I dont ever remember seeing "cheap" 30 Carbine ammo though, good times or bad. Thats probably the biggest reason I waited so long to get into them (should have when they were dirt cheap, but.... ) and now that I do have a couple, Im glad I reload, as doing that, makes them fairly economical to shoot.

Definitely fun guns to shoot though, and I wouldnt have any problems using one for something serious if I had to.

 

[CapnMac]

My LGS actually has .30carbine ammo, a company I've never heard of, and for around $32-35 a box.

I agree with @AK103K the Carbine often gets a bad rap. It's handy, easy to carry at 5.5#, points very naturally, and the round, based on the old .32 win self-loading delivers about .357mag performance. It was meant to replace a pistol as a sidearm and do something pistol could not do, which was to be effective out to 150 yards and beyond.

Will it shoot through a 12" oak like M2 Ball? No, not even close. Tool for a Squad Leader to direct the fire of a Squad? Yeah, pretty good at that. Something for the mortar johnnies or the redlegs--again, a good selection.

And, yes, back in the day when they were far more available, they were a go-to recommendation of mine for HD in the home.

Sadly, in the last decade, prices on ammo, and on Carbines have soared. Which kind of takes it out of the running for HD.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Years ago I did an informal penetration test with a .30 Carbine FMJ at about 20 feet on a thick mild steel bedrail: it punched a hole through it as neatly as an hydraulic press.

Given that the new 7.5 FK Brno pistol offers the same ballistics as the US 30 Carbine from a shorter barrel, somebody's clearly banking on the same combination of diameter, velocity and weight still having merit. Newer bullet designs can also make the 30 Carbine's terminal performance more effective.



I think the cartridge has been somewhat held back by the original platform. For a military weapon, the Carbine was developed in a great hurry and was barely out of the prototype stage when it went into production. The wonder is that it works as well as it does.



I rather wish the Israeli Magal, which is evidently a distant Kalashnikov descendant, was available in the USA to see how a more modern platform performs in this chambering:

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/magal-30m1/

 

[lightman]

Its a fun gun to shoot. My Dad carried one (actually an M2) in Korea and loved it. He Deer hunted with one for years.

 

[Frulk]

I occasionally get drawn to the Blackhawk in .30 Carbine. Thankfully, for now the force is strong within me.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Years ago I did an informal penetration test with a .30 Carbine FMJ at about 20 feet on a thick mild steel bedrail: it punched a hole through it as neatly as an hydraulic press.

Given that the new 7.5 FK Brno pistol offers the same ballistics as the US 30 Carbine from a shorter barrel, somebody's clearly banking on the same combination of diameter, velocity and weight still having merit. Newer bullet designs can also make the 30 Carbine's terminal performance more effective.



I think the cartridge has been somewhat held back by the original platform. For a military weapon, the Carbine was developed in a great hurry and was barely out of the prototype stage when it went into production. The wonder is that it works as well as it does.



I rather wish the Israeli Magal, which is evidently a distant Kalashnikov descendant, was available in the USA to see how a more modern platform performs in this chambering:

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/magal-30m1/

That magal rifle looks impressive, thank you for sharing.

 

[Alex Clayton]

When I was young there was a LOT of WWII vets around and of course a LOT of Korea vets. Most who fought did not often like to talk about it. Back then the surplus M1's were very easy to lay hands on. Often in shockingly good shape and were common for folks who wanted something they did not have to put a lot of cash into. None of the vets who used one in battle seemed to follow the stories of how they did not work. They all seemed to think they worked VERY well. As mentioned already the idea was to give guys armed with a hand gun something better. I have to say if I had a choice between a pistol and an M1 in a place like that? M1 would win hands down.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I occasionally get drawn to the Blackhawk in .30 Carbine. Thankfully, for now the force is strong within me.

Give in to the dark side- the .30 Blackhawk is a blast, literally and figuratively!

 

[748]

Israel still thinks their relevant.

Once I build up my 30carbine ammo hord I'll get a Blackhawk 30carbine. Probably not going to ever get a magnum research auto on account of the price.

As long as we are not in a war zone it's unlikely anyone will be carrying fmj ammo.
I load my carbines with 90gr xtp pistol hollow points. Big difference between a big hollow point and a FMJ.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Israel still thinks their relevant.

Once I build up my 30carbine ammo hord I'll get a Blackhawk 30carbine. Probably not going to ever get a magnum research auto on account of the price.

The Brazilian cops had Taurus make up few thousand modern .30 carbine rifles on the CT9 SMG platform. They thought it would make a dandy, low penetration (compared to .223) round for dense urban combat. Unfortunately, the guns quickly developed a reputation for breakage and Taurus had to buy them all back.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

The Brazilian cops had Taurus make up few thousand modern .30 carbine rifles on the CT9 SMG platform. They thought it would make a dandy, low penetration (compared to .223) round for dense urban combat. Unfortunately, the guns quickly developed a reputation for breakage and Taurus had to buy them all back.

A Taurus with a reputation for breakage? How unusual.

 

[748]

The original carbine seems as tough as a what you wpuld expect from a miniaturized version of rhe M1 garand.

 

[Sistema1927]

Several places have been selling the 1080 round cans of Korean surplus .30 Carbine ammo lately. Somewhere between $350 and $4000 per can. A little pricey (I bought a can for <$200 about 2 years ago), but it is good ammo, and it is packed on stripper clips in bandoleers.

So, if someone has a carbine, and needs to feed it, this ammo is available, or at least it was a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

The 30 carbine out of a Ruger Blackhawk will penetrate more steel than a 45ACP from my personal shooting experience. It also has better ballistics in my opinion. I think the 30 carbine has been vastly under rated mostly due to second and third hand stories. The books I have read about both WWII and the Korean War written by veterans who used the 30 Carbine do not seem to align with the modern fallacies. Of course it is not a 30-06 round so it does not have the range or punch of a full size rifle round but for its purpose it is more than capable.

 

[cfullgraf]

I feel the 30 carbine would be a good defense rifle for my hobby horse farm. It is reasonably reliable out to 100 yards or so. But, I feel post WWII commercial carbines are not reliable enough and I would not want to submit a WWII GI carbine to home defense duties. So, enter the 300 Blackout but that is another subject and should not be discussed in this thread.

That said, a 30 carbine would be a good rifle to work with and if ammunition is available, all the better. It would be to the OP's choice of how much he wants to shoot his carbine.

They are fun to shoot.

 

[Riomouse911]

Saginaw Steering Gear made my my 3,400,000-range M1 carbine and Underwood made the barrel. It’s pretty standard for a later production gun despite the off-colored flat bolt; 4-rivet handguard and low wood on the stock, a milled rear sight, the lever safety and M mag release button, a wide barrel band with bayonet lug, etc. The barrel still has the flaming bomb with the Underwood name. It isn’t all matching, so I’ll guess it was probably an arsenal rebuild, post-Korea.

I bought it from a former deputy from a mountainous county in Ca who carried it for a couple of decades as a trunk gun in his patrol car. I paid $250 bucks for it because rattling around in his trunk absolutely beat the Inland-made GI stock to hell and the hand guard was splintery... but the overall parkerizing wasn’t too bad. The stock was so beat up I had to put a Boyd’s reproduction stock on it just to make it halfway useable again.



It is a fun little plinker, handier and a bit quicker to shoulder-sight and faster to fire than any of my lever carbines...plus it has similar power to my .357 Rossi.

I have mostly fired 110 gr FMJ through it, though I do have about 40 Speer Gold Dot factory rounds if it was to be pressed into HD or last-ditch hunting duties. Over the last ten years I’ve owned it I enjoy taking it out once in a while to blow out the cobwebs.

The .30 Carbine doesn’t get anywhere near the love of the MSR, but it’ll still work very effectively if properly fed and maintained.

Stay safe..

 

[AlexanderA]

When I was young there was a LOT of WWII vets around and of course a LOT of Korea vets. Most who fought did not often like to talk about it. Back then the surplus M1's were very easy to lay hands on. Often in shockingly good shape and were common for folks who wanted something they did not have to put a lot of cash into. None of the vets who used one in battle seemed to follow the stories of how they did not work. They all seemed to think they worked VERY well. As mentioned already the idea was to give guys armed with a hand gun something better. I have to say if I had a choice between a pistol and an M1 in a place like that? M1 would win hands down.

Just to clear up the confusion, I think you mean the M1 Carbine and not the M1 Garand. Back in the day (late 1950's - early 1960's), surplus carbines were plentiful, but Garands were not. (Garands were still in use by the armed forces.) People wanted Garands, but purchasers (they had to be NRA members and competitive shooters) were limited to one per lifetime from the DCM. So, some enterprising dealers bought up scrap, torch-cut Garand receivers and welded them back together. Shot-out barrels were reamed out and then sleeved with turned-down surplus Springfield barrels. These guns were then sold through outlets such as Sears and Montgomery Ward. I still have one such salvaged Garand that I bought unknowingly back then. I have it as a curiosity. I tried to use it in a match once but it malfunctioned.

You are correct that in evaluating the carbine, it should be compared to a pistol and not to a rifle. The whole intent of the carbine was to replace pistols in the hands of rear-area troops, artillery crews, etc. The carbine was both easier to use and more effective than the pistol. It was never intended to be a first-line infantry rifle.

 

[Alex Clayton]

Just to clear up the confusion, I think you mean the M1 Carbine and not the M1 Garand. Back in the day (late 1950's - early 1960's), surplus carbines were plentiful, but Garands were not. (Garands were still in use by the armed forces.) People wanted Garands, but purchasers (they had to be NRA members and competitive shooters) were limited to one per lifetime from the DCM. So, some enterprising dealers bought up scrap, torch-cut Garand receivers and welded them back together. Shot-out barrels were reamed out and then sleeved with turned-down surplus Springfield barrels. These guns were then sold through outlets such as Sears and Montgomery Ward. I still have one such salvaged Garand that I bought unknowingly back then. I have it as a curiosity. I tried to use it in a match once but it malfunctioned.

You are correct that in evaluating the carbine, it should be compared to a pistol and not to a rifle. The whole intent of the carbine was to replace pistols in the hands of rear-area troops, artillery crews, etc. The carbine was both easier to use and more effective than the pistol. It was never intended to be a first-line infantry rifle.

I did not think anyone here was talking about the Garand??? Who in their right mind would even try to claim that the 30'06 would not stop someone? For that matter who would think they would give guys who were using handguns a Garand to replace the pistol????
I also do not remember ever seeing the surplus Garand's "cheap" or anything close to cheap? Are you confusing a different thread with this one by chance??

 

[AlexanderA]

I did not think anyone here was talking about the Garand??? Who in their right mind would even try to claim that the 30'06 would not stop someone? For that matter who would think they would give guys who were using handguns a Garand to replace the pistol????
I also do not remember ever seeing the surplus Garand's "cheap" or anything close to cheap? Are you confusing a different thread with this one by chance??

Sorry. I just saw that you mentioned M1 and did not specify Carbine. In this forum, one cannot always take things for granted.

 

[Armored farmer]

I dont know beans about the M1 carbine. I have never shot one.
My fathers cousin lost his arm to polio as a boy. He was a hunter and firearm enthusiast. He loved his M1carbines dearly because He could shoot them easily and accurately with one arm.
I dont know the details, but i do know he took a nice bull elk with his M1 carbine.
An M1 carbine is on my list of wants.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I have three M1 Carbines, two GI and one commercial. All three work fine. I don’t shoot the GI carbines much anymore, but the Universal does get played with at the range.
I look at the M1 Carbine as a fun gun to shoot. Everyone that shoots them tend to enjoy them.
But if you’re looking for ammo for a self defense gun at this time, all I can say that you have been unprepared for some time. One should always have ammo, for protection and training, for the guns they plan to use to defend themselves and others.

 

[eastbank]

my keeper m-1 carbine, a winchester rebuild. i have owned a good dozen+ over the years and all have been good shooters with the right ammo(GI BALL) and non worn parts. the viet(civilians hamlit guards loved them(winning hearts and minds) and traded their m-1 garands in for them when they could.

 

[Speedo66]

They are also fun for plinking cans as they are very much like a larger .22 in regards to power........

Seriously, you think a Carbine is like a .22 in power?

 

[kBob]

Most, but not all, Carbine failures I have heard include the words "guys found' or "he said they told him" or such...not all but most.

There is a long time THR poster I greatly respect that has contempt for the carbine based on his personal direct experience combat use of one.

On the other hand I have spoken to several WWII vets and Korean War vets that liked them and also actually used them.

Some comments I heard were in response to multi shot hits failing to stop. "then they were not hitting them" again you hearing it from me is hear say.

My favorite I got from two different guys in response to my question about single round stops with a carbine was "Why in Gohd's name would you shoot someone close enough to use a carbine on only one time?!?!?!"

I have a friend that was an EMT that has no lower leg on one side as a FMJ carbine round went though his shin bone, shattered it and went out the other side of his leg. The doctors screwed around with the leg for six years before finally removing it. He said he went down right then and he really did not want to be down.

Dr Martin Fackler used a Carbine as his HD gun, loaded with Commercial JSP of the time. Based on his time as a surgeon and his time in RVN as such he felt the carbine, especially with commercial "hunting ammunition" was more than enough.

-kBob