Waiting Time for Suppressor Approval?

[Soonerpesek]

When you realize that the goal is not to approve submissions, but instead to discourage purchases, then it all starts to begin to make sense. The processes used are working just as designed.

Really..........??

SBR Individual eForm 4
My new record is now 41 hours.
View attachment 1198214

Was in the GS today (can't call it a LGS 'cause it's 30ish miles away...?) that I do most of my firearm/Form4 bidness with.
In less than 1/2 hour, 2 peeps came in to pick up eForm 4 suppressors------------submitted on MAR 5...........................!!!!!
They were saying that they have had about 15, or so, of those come back that quick....
If this trend holds fast, prolly gonna have to deal with alot of OOS from the manufacturers............................
These folks are pretty suave as they have a substantial inventory of quite a few brands/types of cans ....

third and final approval received today. I waited 4 weeks. It’s the one I’ve been most excited about- a 22 suppressor from otter creek labs called the titanium because it’s made from it. It should be very light. Im going to host it on a Christensen arms ranger for an über light plinker.

We just got approvals on 2 form 4s that were filed as individual on 3/29/2024. 6 calendar days.

Silencer arrived on Monday, customer certified on Tuesday, email approval received at 2pm today.......43 hours.
Single Shot Trust.

Good times!

 

[dogtown tom]

When you realize that the goal is not to approve submissions, but instead to discourage purchases, then it all starts to begin to make sense. The processes used are working just as designed.

If there was such a secret plot to slow roll NFA approvals, ATF and the FBI are doing a terrible job.
While the whole point of the NFA of 1934 was to prohibit NFA firearms via a punitive tax, it's a bit silly to complain about deliberate government incompetence or some "goal" of government purposefully delaying approvals, when in fact the opposite is true.

No federal law or court case forced ATF to implement eForms. It was ATF that begged Congress for years to allocate $$$ to improve the paper system. And if you are unaware, eForms has dramatically improved NFA processing times. Remove eForms and you'll see wait times increase as the job of data entry goes back to a clerk and not the FFL/SOT.
That's how ATF addressed slow processing times.

The problem continues to be FBI background check processing. If you don't like the requirement that an NFA applicant pass the NICS check, then a change to federal law is required. Title I guns are under the Brady Law, that allows for a transfer without a proceed, but NFA background checks require a positive result before the ATF can approve the Form 1/4.

Thats not the fault of ATF or the FBI, but Congress. Inefficient processes can't change "just because".

My recent 41 and 43 hour approvals are evidence that the process can be efficient.

 

[bearcreek]

Title I guns are under the Brady Law, that allows for a transfer without a proceed, but NFA background checks require a positive result before the ATF can approve the Form 1/4.

How often does a transfer without a proceed actually occur?

 

[dogtown tom]

How often does a transfer without a proceed actually occur?

I do so every time because federal law doesn't prohibit it. Some dealers, especially big box stores, refuse to transfer unless they get an affirmative "proceed" response.
I would guess 20% of my delayed NICS checks don't update to proceed before the Brady date.

When an FBI NICS check is run, the NICS operator will tell the FFL: "NTN 12345ABCD will be delayed while NICS conducts additional research. The Brady Law does not prohibit the transfer of this firearm on (gives Brady date)".

 

[bearcreek]

I do so every time because federal law doesn't prohibit it. Some dealers, especially big box stores, refuse to transfer unless they get an affirmative "proceed" response.
I would guess 20% of my delayed NICS checks don't update to proceed before the Brady date.

When an FBI NICS check is run, the NICS operator will tell the FFL: "NTN 12345ABCD will be delayed while NICS conducts additional research. The Brady Law does not prohibit the transfer of this firearm on (gives Brady date)".

I meant as a percentage of total firearm transfers. If,

The problem continues to be FBI background check processing.

why does it take so much longer than it does for a "regular" firearm? It seems as if there must be other issues going on than the FBI BC.

 

[dogtown tom]

I meant as a percentage of total firearm transfers. If,

why does it take so much longer than it does for a "regular" firearm? It seems as if there must be other issues going on than the FBI BC.

NFA checks have historically taken longer because the FBI assigned them a lesser priority than Title I firearm checks. If the check didn't result in an immediate proceed the FBI would set it aside and research when they felt like it. The Brady Law mandates the FBI NICS background check, but Congress never included NFA firearms in that law.

Coupled with NFA background checks not enjoying the exemptions that purchasers of Title I firearms enjoy (state firearm permit and the ability to transfer after the three business day delay has elapsed) it has always made for a longer process.

There are FOIA documents that show the back and forth between ATF and FBI bigwigs regarding slow NFA background checks. ATF complaining about slow background checks and the FBI replying back that they aren't required by any law to do an NFA firearm background check. Then an email back from ATF saying NICS is THE federal background check database. Both are correct.

It really is sad and funny to read that back and forth. Lots of "As you know" prefacing a statement. Thats code for I know you know and you know we know and its not our fault.

Some of this has recently been addressed by the ATF/FBI "agreement"

 

[Sistema1927]

If there was such a secret plot to slow roll NFA approvals, ATF and the FBI are doing a terrible job.
While the whole point of the NFA of 1934 was to prohibit NFA firearms via a punitive tax, it's a bit silly to complain about deliberate government incompetence or some "goal" of government purposefully delaying approvals, when in fact the opposite is true.

No federal law or court case forced ATF to implement eForms. It was ATF that begged Congress for years to allocate $$$ to improve the paper system. And if you are unaware, eForms has dramatically improved NFA processing times. Remove eForms and you'll see wait times increase as the job of data entry goes back to a clerk and not the FFL/SOT.
That's how ATF addressed slow processing times.

The problem continues to be FBI background check processing. If you don't like the requirement that an NFA applicant pass the NICS check, then a change to federal law is required. Title I guns are under the Brady Law, that allows for a transfer without a proceed, but NFA background checks require a positive result before the ATF can approve the Form 1/4.

Thats not the fault of ATF or the FBI, but Congress. Inefficient processes can't change "just because".

My recent 41 and 43 hour approvals are evidence that the process can be efficient.

If they are using NICS for the FBI background checks then something is really messed up. Why would it take 8 months to get a Form 4 approved when I can get a proceed on a NICS check in minutes for a gun purchase, as well as for the redundant NICS check after getting my approval using eForms?

Your couple of quick approvals are the outlier, but the entire system is so convoluted and slow that it discourages its use. And, as I said, that is by design.

 

[dogtown tom]

If they are using NICS for the FBI background checks then something is really messed up.

ATF has no choice. FBI NICS is the only federal agency with access to the databases used for background checks.
So, it's not "messed up", it is what it is.

Why would it take 8 months to get a Form 4 approved when I can get a proceed on a NICS check in minutes for a gun purchase, as well as for the redundant NICS check after getting my approval using eForms?

I'm pretty sure I explained why above.

Your couple of quick approvals are the outlier, but the entire system is so convoluted and slow that it discourages its use. And, as I said, that is by design.

No, " the system" is slow for many reasons, "design" obviously is not one of them when we can get approvals in less than a week.

If there was some secret conspiracy to slow roll I'm sure there would be some YouTuber exposing it in a 25 min video.

 

[Soonerpesek]

Your couple of quick approvals are the outlier, but the entire system is so convoluted and slow that it discourages its use. And, as I said, that is by design.

The LGS that I frequent sez that 10-14 days has been the “norm” for the last 3-4 weeks……

 

[Mako2023]

I got with my FFL and submitted the individual Form 4 to the ATF (electronically) for a new SilencerCo Scythe Ti on Saturday Apr 27th. This morning, May 1 at 8am, I received my approval PDF from the ATF by E-mail and picked up my suppressor an hour later. So 3 business days from form submission to 1st bullet though the can. All smiles here