What is a "competition trigger"?

[Trey Veston]

There have been a few threads here and on other firearms forums regarding the new Timney Glock trigger.

There have been compelling arguments back and forth regarding the suitability of said trigger for use in a carry gun. This thread is not intended to be a re-hash of those arguments.

In all of those discussions, the term "competition trigger" has been thrown about. The name of the trigger is called the "Glock Alpha Competition Series" trigger.

I've been shooting for over 40 years, have competed in BPCR matches and then GSSF matches and am a bit confused on what exactly constitutes a competition trigger.

Is it just the overall pull weight?

My BPCR rifle is a Winchester 1885 high wall with a 2.5 lb trigger. My hunting rifle has a 3 lb trigger.

In GSSF, I started with a stock G29 with a 4.5 lb trigger, and have had the same 4.5 lb trigger in every subsequent pistol used until upgrading to the Timney in my G35, which is at 2.5 lbs in it's current form. When in the G23 and with a heavier connector, it is 3.75 lbs.

My Ruger SBH Bisley has a factory stock 3.0 lb trigger. Same with my Uberti 1873 Peacemaker.

So what exactly constitutes a "competition trigger"?

If it's simply a light and crisp pull, then do my single action pistols have competition triggers?

I have never engaged in bullseye shooting, but I understand the pistols used in those competitions feature incredibly light triggers around a pound or less. I understand why those are considered competition triggers.

But then I've seen new S&W Shield Plus pistols off the shelf with just under 4 lb triggers, which is the same as my Timney trigger with the heavier connector.

So does it have a "competition trigger"??

 

[Riomouse911]

I think the context that “competition trigger” is used in means a lot.

In the case of a lawsuit or trial involving a shooter with a carry gun sporting a 3.5 lb trigger, that modification is potentially additional fodder for a plaintiffs attorney suing for damages in a shooting… especially an unintentional one. It’s easy to pitch to a jury that you modified the perfectly acceptable and local-agency duty approved 5.5 pound stock trigger by installing a “hair trigger” that you then used to shoot the attorneys client with.

Same goes for a prosecutor; if you’re charged with a gun crime and another person is injured or killed by a bullet you fired from your gun with a 3.5 pound “competition trigger”, that certainly could be brought up to the jury as a means of showing “prior malicious intent” and you had “a mindset that sought out confrontation with the victim resulting in this shooting by installing a hair trigger like a western gunslinger,” etc.

Whether total BS or not; the courtroom is no place to listen to people arguing over garbage like this to 12 people who probably know nothing (or very, very little) about guns who are empowered by law to determine your fate.

Now if your gun has a smoothed out, but close to or at-stock weight trigger pull, this type of “competition trigger” info probably isn’t used very effectively to paint the picture of the gun toting maniac (aka: You!) the attorney opposing you wants the jury to see.

A “competition trigger” may also be used in the context of decreased reliability. Lightening trigger pulls by lightening spring power can result in phenomenal trigger pull weights… but less than stellar reliability. So, when you NEED 100% reliability but a too-light hammer or striker spring that was swapped out makes one or more rounds per magazine iffy, do you really want to stake your bacon on those odds?

These are just two potential avenues for someone to be derisive about “competition triggers.” I’m sure there are more, but hey, we all need to find something to gripe about .

Stay safe.

 

[tarosean]

So what exactly constitutes a "competition trigger"?

Obviously a nice smooth trigger pull is wanted.
However, the main thing is adjustability in my opinion.
Pre-travel, Over-travel, etc.
Can it be tuned exactly how I want it?

For example, I've got SAO handguns that are adjusted down to less than a pound. Glocks that have zero wall with zero take-up.

 

[Jim Watson]

A lot of it is advertising, like "match grade barrel."
I can only add:

I have never engaged in bullseye shooting, but I understand the pistols used in those competitions feature incredibly light triggers around a pound or less.

NRA and a lot of ISSF pistol shooting has minimum trigger pulls in the 2 - 3 lb range.
Free Pistol allows set triggers.

My BPCR rifle is a Winchester 1885 high wall with a 2.5 lb trigger. My hunting rifle has a 3 lb trigger.

Me, too. I have too many different guns and a set trigger on BPCR would throw me off for everything else.

My Ruger SBH Bisley has a factory stock 3.0 lb trigger. Same with my Uberti 1873 Peacemaker.

You don't go 'round with a SAA type at full cock, though. CAS will work more on lighter cocking than lighter pull.

As to the Timney-Glock. It is a "competition trigger" better said "competition ONLY" because it holds the striker at full draw without the hemi-semi-demi partial trigger cocking action of the factory linkage and without manual safety. People worry about them not being as drop-safe.
Swapping around connectors and springs can further reduce the trigger pull. For a mere $250 (on a $150 trigger group) Johnny Glock will set it below 2 lbs with allegedly improved feel.

 

[Howland937]

Perhaps the marketing is such that it's deemed "for competition only" without expressly saying so. An effort to limit liability?
There's a plethora of "not for highway use" or "off road only" modifications available and commonly used on vehicles that NEVER leave the public roadways...especially in states that don't have emissions testing.

 

[Tirod]

A competition trigger trends to light, crisp, and is used by skilled, experienced professionals. A tactical trigger trends to a higher weight pull with enough wall that it's a deliberate, chosen discharge, minimizing any negligence due to inexperienced and relatively unskilled users.

Competitions are highly structured events meant to sort out skill levels under controlled conditions and which avoid the inadvertent death of competitors and attendees. Tactical events are live fire on a two way range with the intent to reduce the others' ability to continue dynamic operations. Death may result but reducing active resistance to ineffective levels is the goal. There are two different focal points and two different results.

Every modification and every tactic has it's benefits and disadvantages. When a competition feature results in an increased loss of safety or creates unsafe conditions, it's not helping and should be scaled back. In the history of firearms, lightening the trigger pull does exactly that - creates more friendly casualties from negligence in use. Tired, exhausted individuals making "fire or don't fire" decisions equipped with firearms which do not prevent inadvertent discharge under chaotic conditions have improperly configured equipment. It's the historical standard for military weapons used in combat to have a minimum trigger pull of 6 pounds - no less.

Use of a lighter trigger than that in a self defense weapon should be weighed very carefully in regards to the safety of those around the user. We cannot control the chaos of daily life by having a consort of handlers around us to prevent panic, people running across lanes of fire, bumping into us during an exchange of gunfire, or having family tugging or even climbing up on to us as we attempt defense.

At least in the military most of your team mates have been introduced in the arts of not killing you, and vice versa. Your family? On a range, it's conducted to prevent negligence, while hunting? Every year someone is killed in every state. Just the same as every year a highly trained member of the armed forces is killed in live fire rehearsal.

I think we could reduce that with a bit more focus on using tactical triggers, not competition triggers in the wrong setting.

 

[weeniewawa]

a marketing term like "Navy Seal Approved"

meant to separate you from your money

 

[Meeks36]

a marketing term like "Navy Seal Approved"

meant to separate you from your money

You beat me to it. Same as Tactical or tacticool. Just buzz words.

 

[peeplwtchr]

I think the context that “competition trigger” is used in means a lot.

In the case of a lawsuit or trial involving a shooter with a carry gun sporting a 3.5 lb trigger, that modification is potentially additional fodder for a plaintiffs attorney suing for damages in a shooting… especially an unintentional one. It’s easy to pitch to a jury that you modified the perfectly acceptable and local-agency duty approved 5.5 pound stock trigger by installing a “hair trigger” that you then used to shoot the attorneys client with.

Same goes for a prosecutor; if you’re charged with a gun crime and another person is injured or killed by a bullet you fired from your gun with a 3.5 pound “competition trigger”, that certainly could be brought up to the jury as a means of showing “prior malicious intent” and you had “a mindset that sought out confrontation with the victim resulting in this shooting by installing a hair trigger like a western gunslinger,” etc.

Whether total BS or not; the courtroom is no place to listen to people arguing over garbage like this to 12 people who probably know nothing (or very, very little) about guns who are empowered by law to determine your fate.

Now if your gun has a smoothed out, but close to or at-stock weight trigger pull, this type of “competition trigger” info probably isn’t used very effectively to paint the picture of the gun toting maniac (aka: You!) the attorney opposing you wants the jury to see.

A “competition trigger” may also be used in the context of decreased reliability. Lightening trigger pulls by lightening spring power can result in phenomenal trigger pull weights… but less than stellar reliability. So, when you NEED 100% reliability but a too-light hammer or striker spring that was swapped out makes one or more rounds per magazine iffy, do you really want to stake your bacon on those odds?

These are just two potential avenues for someone to be derisive about “competition triggers.” I’m sure there are more, but hey, we all need to find something to gripe about .

Stay safe.

Why I only buy the guns with the best stock triggers (i.e. Walther, Canik, HK). I won't do anything to a trigger, for reasons you stated. It doesn't make sense to me to buy something that needs fixing out of the box, which is why I don't own any glocks.

 

[jmorris]

It’s a marketing term, if you used a factory trigger in competition, it would be a “competition trigger”, just not as good as ones designed to meet the rules and be better than factory.

 

[Slamfire]

NRA Bullseye Pistol trigger minimum for .22lr is 2 lbs., center fire (not .45) is 2-1/2 lbs., .45 is 3-1/2 lbs. Service pistol is 4 lbs. I think this is all nuts as the only concern to me is whether the trigger is safe. The requirement of four lbs or 3.5 lbs for 1911 might have made sense post WW2 when everyone was using military surplus parts, but now, CNC milled and polished parts can easily achieve safe pulls of 2.5 pounds. And in the action shooting leagues, away from the calcified NRA or CMP crowd, the only trigger weight requirement is "safe trigger".

I have handled a number of Bullseye Competition triggers, and they are wonderful, crisp, no movement before they break. Except those using a "roll trigger". A roll trigger is similar to a two stage trigger, you feel it stack, and then you push through. It is really an amazing trigger, the last stage is almost a set trigger. I do have a 2.5 pull 1911, wonderful for target work. Too damn light for anything else. It is easy to double bump a 2.5 lb trigger when practicing with one hand. I cannot imagine having something that light in a life threatening environment. You will shoot your eye out! Or maybe, put a round through your leg!

As for rifles, well that is a whole different game. I used Jewell two stage triggers on my bolt rifles and found that if my trigger pulls were less than 2.5 lbs, I could bump them and fire the rifle during rapid fire. It was easy, the bolt goes forward, the hand pushed down on the knob, third finger enters trigger housing, and bumps trigger. Boom!

But, I also shoot smallbore prone. Triggers on smallbore prone rifles are awfully light compared with other shooting sports. An eight ounce trigger is like a boat anchor. I don't know the weight of this two stage Anschutz trigger, because my trigger gauge trips it touching the trigger face.



The pull weight is just at limit of my finger sensitivity, so it must be an ounce, or two. I do not rest my finger on the trigger, I approach it, take up the first stage, and I think about it going off, and it does. This trigger is unsafe for anything other than being strapped in a sling, in a rigid prone position. Maybe it is doable on a rest, but I wonder. When I time it right, the trigger goes off between heart beats. I feel calm, relaxed, and bang!