What is the most effective guard dog?

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10lbs of idiotic fury

LMAO! :D
My neighbor has one of those little guys... drives everyone nuts. He likes to team up with a small Boston Terrier and tease the big dogs in the neighborhood behind stout fences (such as mine).
I figure it's a good test of patience for my GSD and boxer.
 
One more story about Akitas:

Mine's best friend was my wife's 10 lb Dachshund. They never realized they were different sizes, and it was pretty funny to watch the Doxie chase him all over the place.

One day Bear got loose and my neighbor brought him back laughing hysterically. Apparently Bear had been following Rick's Chihuahua up the road, whacking him with a front paw every few steps. The Chihuahua would roll over a few times, pick himself up, snarl and snap at Bear, and start back down the road, whereupon Bear whacked him again. Rick said it was about the funniest thing he'd ever seen. Thank God for neighbors who don't take life too seriously.

I swear that dog had a sense of humor. The Doxie was obsessed with chasing tennis balls. Bear couldn't care less about chasing balls, but once in a while he would grab the Doxie's tennis ball, pop it with one bite, drop it and walk off. You could almost hear him laughing at the Doxie's frustration.
 
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What is the most effective guard dog?
Ideally, one that doesn't pee or like kibble under duress. Other than well-trained dobermans, rotts or GS's, I have yet to see one truly immune from occasional failings.

The most-complete example of a guard dog I ever met was a young rottweiler that had been poisoned by some unruly neighbors ... and knew it. He was extremely smart. He got angry and thoughtful after that engagement. Continuing his protection training, this dog reached amazing heights of focus, inability to be deterred, etc. I met him at 9mos and he was a monster/machine: very large, extremely strong, deadly reliable. (Found myself snout-to-crotch with him, when he didn't appreciate a "move" I had made while playing with him. I have rarely felt so subservient as at that moment, I can tell you.) That rottweiler, by the way, helped ensure that the harrassment of that family ended right quick. The oddball neighbors never came around again, nor did they subsequently have any problems with trespassing or vandalism/theft (on a large farm-type property).

That said, I think it depends mostly on the training and motivation, both owner and dog. Start with good material, then train, train, train.
 
kronckew:

Those two photos of Millie and Blue are amazing. The first is the best canine immitation of the Clint Eastwood "stare" I have seen; the second, the reason one keeps a good whetstone (and first-aid kit) around. :D

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Chihuahuas, lol

Chihuahuas, get enough of them and it’s like being atacked by piranhas. lol;)
 
I've seen people with very good and impressive GSD's. I don't care for the breed. Got bit by several (at different times) when I was a child. Every single time, the dog stayed away while I was facing it and then raced in to bite me in the butt when I turned to try to leave. Left an unfavorable impression of the breed. Based on top specimens of the breed, I have no doubt that the ones that I met that acted crazy were the result both of over breeding and ignorant people breeding dogs.

The problem with AKC in the US isn't just people breeding to an unreasonable breed standard. A standard that often ruins a working dog breed for working. That's only part of the picture. What's worse is when the breed becomes popular and you suddenly have people with no knowledge breeding the dogs everywhere. When Dobermans became popular, you had people thinking a nervous, neurotic dog was breeding material. After a few generations of breeding neurotic dogs together, you suddenly have psychotic dogs. I've seen Dobermans that hit the ground on their backs urinating on themselves when I stomped my foot and yelled at them. Pathetic. Imagine the owner's look of indignation when told the animal should be neutered if not euthanized. Be very careful when buying any registered breed in America that has gone through an extended period of popularity. Look for a knowledgeable breeder that understands and appreciates the original working origins of the breed over the AKC standard. They are out there, it just takes some searching.

However, there is a problem with Dobermans from top lines. They're predictable. They move in patterns. I raised several litters over the years. Tussled with them, played with them. After several years, I realized that even strange adult Dobermans when attacking were moving the same way as the ones I raised. That predictability will let someone who is very familiar with the breed, clean their clock. I've raised Rottweilers too. I won't take the liberties with a strange Rottweiler that I am willing to take with a Doberman. It's not a matter of being faster than the Doberman. It's a matter of being able to start a counter before the Doberman starts his attack and beat him to the punch. One easy counter to this is two Dobermans. I can handle one up close and personal. I wouldn't try two:D

Two things I haven't seen addressed in the thread is faking the guard dog off and poison.

I prefer females to males. In my experience, females seem to be more intelligent, more easily trained, and much less stubborn. But the primary reason I like females for guard work is that they cannot be decoyed by a bitch in heat. I've no doubt that exceptional trainers working with exceptional dogs can-with extraordinary effort-train guard dogs to ignore bitches in heat. I prefer to avoid the problem by just going with females to begin with.

The other issue is poison. If someone really wants into your property guarded by dogs...they're going to poison your dogs. And it really sucks watching your dog die from the poisons most often used. BTDT. Training to poison proof a dog is fairly simple. Basically you train the dog so it won't eat except from a certain dog bowl. Then you secure the bowl except for feedings. It's been a good while since I've done this training, I'm not up on current practice-so I won't go into details. I'm sure Sgt. Stevo can tell us what the current state of the art is here.
 
I would NOT want a "Guard Dog" that could not tell the difference between a BG or some neighborhood kid hopping my fense to steal some apples and would tear to shreads either one.
I DO want a "Watch Dog" to bark continuosly at any intruder or unusual situation to give me time to get my gun. That way I decide who is going to die,not a dog.
The top 3 "Watch Dogs" according to one website are: Rottweiler,German Shepard,and Scottish Terrier. The Chihuahua is #8!
Personally I have a Blue Heeler (Australian Cattle Dog) that fills the role as "Watch Dog" very well.
 
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As far as not liking GSD dogs. thats just silly. I have been bit by a lab. And I dont fault an entire breed.

Dobermans used to good workers. By workers I mean. can handle the stresses of real protection dog training. I have not seen one in awhile. I own a Malinois. He is a capable man stopper. My dogs and the ones we train are for personel defense.

They bite on cammand. Not the area gaurds. Our rotts will kill anything in there area. But we do not sell these to the general public. we rent them out.

But out personel protection dogs can be let go in a dog park, a school, etc.

I havebrought a couple of THR members to work on a busy protection day. I have the dog bite the guy or me. then sit next, or in the lap of the person. we have small children play with them. we also only train dogs for protection that pass our eval. Most dont. No doberman we have seen in a couple of years has passed.

Only one show line GSD has passed and this dog is wimp. BY my standards.

Like I said, any dog that barks for a warning dog. Our area gaurds except food only in there bowl. ANd only at the kennel. we rent to salvage yards, one storage place, etc. these are not pets. they are weapons. Are personel protection dogs are both.

I can tell you that GSD dogs are the best all around if working bred dogs. The show dogs are useless. Lokks in dogs is about as good an indicater of toughness as it is in people. My mal is not pretty. He is thin with big head. But he can drag aman out of a car, take down our two hundred and twenty pound helper. Or play with my three year old. I am not pretty either. So we look good together. ;)
 
Hmmmmmm

HUH....RENT a BoerBoel NOW thats a concept sarge!....I could be rich;) :fire: God Just Id love to see the Insurance/liabilities guys face when I call to set that one up:what: :D
 
Stevo, you seem to be quite well versed in defense dogs. What is your take on molosser type guard dogs. I know all dogs are individuals and molossers are generally more autonomous when compare to a GSD, dobbie or rot. But I have seen a few Am Bulldogs, Bandogges, and Nea's that were very well trained. In your opinion are these dogs of less potential then the three common protection/guard dogs.
 
I am well versed only because I train them for a living. Dogo dogs are good. But for strong handlers only. Bandogs are tougher then most anything. And Any dog with the drive they have, can be trained to do anything. I would love to have a corso. Police usually dont like them. It is considered over kill. I have trained many. for straight defense. Outstanding. Filas and Canary dogs are too much for most people.

we have no problem training these dogs. But like I said. Strong owners. :)
 
Owners of American Bulldogs have told me about a problem they have. The dogs are sweet and friendly, but their conformation and gait make them look aggressive to other dogs. One woman has a large (60 kilo!) male who is always confused when he runs up to sniff other dogs only to have them snarl or whimper.
 
This Beast is Steveo Trained and as you see fearless!

DONT try this at home(Boomer at 6 months) !!! Just teasing of course!!!:neener: ....BUT Dont believe everything you read about the Biguns either:) they DO NEED a strong BUT loving hand it becomes a lifestyle....For example, One of the above trained dogs form a crediable source could run you 5-10K ...and in my opinion WELL WORTH every Penny, a small price to pay for the time and efforts put fourth...choose one and you WILL be happy. My babies on the other Hand :evil: well you couldnt buy one from me for ANY amount of $$$ literally:D , no quicker than one of you would sell your 2 legged :) AND my babies KNOW it 4 FACT....we are a pack in the truest sense here and the ranch protected accordingly because nature takes its natural course....they are SO in tune to our thinking needs and Commands Because it is within EVERY fiber of there being to please us, it is their inner most instincts to ACT/RESPOND to/off of our thoughts and emotions Nothing more.;
Just a thought.....We leave NO man or BoerBoel behind here at the BB Ranch....;) :D Just they way it should be.
 
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The key is a dog that will bark at strangers.
A loud poddle or chihauhau that always barks ar strangers
is a better bet than a big dog that will quietly accept a hot
dog laced with sleeping pulls.
 
Here you'll see I have some of my Barrett .50BMG ammo under Gauntlet like security conditions... Just try and grap it I dare ya!:what: :evil:


LD
 
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Form what I hear, having "something" missing makes them a better watch dog, keeps them focused on the job at hand and not romantic interests. Whether true or not, I don't know. I had mine fixed so he wouldn't be peeing every 10 minutes to mark his territory.
 
There are documented cases from WWI. The German military used unfixed dogs. The French sent bitches in heat towards German lines. As they say on Fark.com "Hilarity ensued." :evil:
 
I've seen a stud chew through stainless steel cyclone fencing to get at a bitch in heat. They lose their minds. At the same time, though, they do have a fearsome amount of fire in their belly. This makes them more difficult to train and more stubborn, but also better on the attack. That's not to say a neutered male isn't good as a guard dog, but there's a difference in outlook. An intact alpha male always has that wild edge to him. In practical terms, though, the important difference is the pups.
 
well said cosmo, I agree. Interesting note of mention which I have found to be true after spending MANY yrs. with the Breed. They instinctively will NOT take food or treat from stranger...none of my BB's will eat from anyone other than the Mrs. , I and a select neighbor W?O looking back to us for approval FIRST...It makes vacaction planning a bit difficult BUT still interesting.;)

LD
 
Again, it is what you want a dog for. A poodle to bark, a pet, or a dog that will fight and stop an attacker .

AB dogs dont look more agressive to other dogs and who cares if they do. Silly. I love the comments that pop up on these threads. Most crooks wont go to the trouble of using bitches in heat to try and draw away dogs. They would just shoot them if they were that motivated. Fixed dogs are less likely to fight other dogs or impregnate the dog down the street. A good idea. I fix any non protection trained or breeding dog. we just bought Gep. We paid $20,000 for him. Not to be fixed. His pups will save cops lives. But a dog we place in an inner city liquer store. Or an estate gaurd in Aptos. Probly. Not because of the bitch problem. But to not make more unwanted pups. The french did not use bitches in the war. They were the bitches. And it did not work. They used some scent to draw out Gaurd dogs. Or so I heard probly a legand..
 
Temperment is so varied with different breeds I have had, I have a rot that is the most docile and laid back dog I have ever seen, but when the two year old next door shot him through the fence with a water gun he went ape***** trying to get at the boy. Same thing happened with my roomies Pit and my AB they thought it was a game, they loved it. I guess you could say that it proves how some dogs are bred without any regard for temperment. The Rottie as fine a dog as he is, was free, the other two are $1k+ purpose bred dogs.
 
training

here is a point that i dont think has been pointed out yet. No matter what the breed of dog that you have, you have to train it to bite in order to get the most out of it. from what i understand, and Sgt. Stevo may be able to enlighten us further, is that most dog bites are a "fear" type bite(even from a 200# dog protecting his family) and as such they use the forward part of the mouth. these bites do much less damage than the trained bite which is deep and very powerful. hence the early jute work with your puppy.

I am the owner of a 75# male malinois. I am pretty pleased with him and right now he is just a very obedient, very hyper alarm dog. I can attest to the trainability of these dogs personally and will also attest to their physicality. I hope to get him in protection school soon, just need some more money. are mals the best? I dont know.

Anyway, I point this out because I see a lot of talk in this thread about "natural" ability and from what i understand this natural ablility may not compare with trained behavior.
 
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