What is the most effective guard dog?

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Getting a BB to bite on Command in NOT the problem its more so when that i call the "Red Zone" kicks in...ITS getting them to LET GO (They are that Primal....Hence used to Hunt Lion and elephant for that strength and tenacity of bite) That concerns me:uhoh: A BB dosent just Bite , Bite, Bite per say its, more Bite tear swallow, Bite tear Swallow, slower IMO but devastating... seriously.....This is where Steves Dogs excell NO doubt!....again there is NO substitute for proper training. Some breeds take diff. to it than others no doubt.

LD
 
It would take someone pretty crazy to keep coming after being bitten, even with the front teeth. The canine teeth are long and, I can tell you from experience, hurt like an SOB when they go through the skin. I think there's an instinct from our earliest ancestors to fear predators with big teeth. Add in the pain of a bite wound and not many attackers are going to keep coming. I personally wouldn't train a dog to do more damage than he instinctively would, although there are probably situations with specialized dogs like Sgt. Stevo's where it would make sense.

Having said that, when I've seen my Shepherd wanting to bite someone, it's not out of fear- he's PISSED OFF that someone appears to be threatening a member of his family. Hasn't actually done it, b/c he backs off when he's told to.
 
still i wonder the compared effectiveness of a trained biter and a "natural" biter.

look to the past as an example. when game bred dogs were still fighting it was a standard practice to train dogs to bite properly. this included teaching them the locking bite, as well as where to bite. they accomplished this with the use of a 'gummer'. an old seasoned dog that had been de-toothed and then had his neck and belly shaved to encourage the young dogs to attack there.

please dont take this that i am arguing against the boerboel b/c based on what i have read i would love to see one of them in action. Can you tell us more about how they take to training? Are there any agencies or governments using them? also what more can you say firsthand about temperament? I see the family loving side but what is this "red zone" and how easy is it for them to get there?
 
Its takes along time in training, to build a full mouth bite. we start with rag, then a soft sleave. then a hard sleave then a suit. Most dogs simply wont bite.

They bark run around and make agood show. But most dogs are told not to bite from an early age.

we start them at pups. Play biting and always let them win.

I wpould much rather be attacked by a non trained two hundred pound mastiff, then a 50lbs Mal that has done bite work.

There is also a huge difference between games, Sh, french ring and real bite work.

And in my mind the the Mals arethe best. My Max is a stud, man stopper. Yesterday he played in the local dog park for an hour. And did not even growl at the little dogs trying annoy him. A good mal is the end result of hundreds of years breeding just to do what they do.

Join a club man.. save a couple of grand. If the club helpers are good. It is almost the same.

Its like getting a springfield instead of a wilson, 1911. It does the same thing. You just dont get the Baden k-9, cooperhaus, Tyson name on your dog. Send me a pick of your mal. And if you are near by. I will train him for you. Sub rosa.;)
 
Sgt Stevo, thanks a bunch for the offer. i live in NE so i guess i wont be able to take you up on it. and...there are no clubs since i am so rural. what i hope to do is to get my dog into a school that is about 4hrs from here just to do some bite work and also some threat assessment. I have got the obedience bit pretty much down since i hunt upland game with dogs and have applied that training experience to my mal.

i dont have a picture of my dog but here is a pic of the mommy.

Cally.jpg


and here is a pic of the daddy

Friedas%20Home%20Sam%20New1.jpg


the dad is off Elgos du Chemin des Plaines and the mom is a worker as well.
 
What is the most effective guard dog?

A yappy mutt that loves kids and won't attack someone and land your ass in court. The yappy mutt will do his job and alert you to a potential problem. At that point, you, the pack leader, will get out the BMF .357 and do your job.
 
I'll go with Nicky on this one

I have had dogs all my life am 65 this year. My last one had to be put down this year.

Insurance companies in CA. will not allow a Pitbull anymore or there relatives.

The K9 in my area are going for the Belgiums rather than the German Shepards. Hip problems are a biggie of late. Some of your bigger dogs are not as easily awakened as your Terriers. Some like the little fiesty ones for waking you up, or your bigger dog.

I believe in this day and age I would go to a shelter and find a nice one who is looking for a home. Most of your selters have done all the preliminary work for you. They will be glad to see you and so will the dog who is there.

I don't like yappers, I want my dog to be like a ninja, they will wake me and protect when needed. An occasional healthy bark is fine.

Training is the key just like a gun, many hours of training is needed.

Check out the "Pound aka shelter". Best bet in my humble opinion.

HQ:)
 
Everyone here has a favorite. And of course, it's based on experience.

I happen to have a golden retriever, and as a watch dog she is great.

However, if I wanted a Guard Dog I would go with what a friend uses to make his living with. He reuns a guard dog service in Colorado, taking care of construction sites, car lots, etc.

German Shepherds, yes, (excellent dog) but his main dogs of the 15 or so are Doberman Pinscher. They seem to have a very strong sense of boundary. He can leave a dog in the garage, and the door open. Dog never leaves, but don't even think of putting your hand through the door.

That's a guard dog.

HM
 
My neighbors have "yappers", worthless dogs that bark at everything all times of day and night. It's all I can do not to shoot them!

My previous neighbor had a dog that never barked unless there was a real threat. That was a great dog.
 
Nice, Island, My max is the mal on our website below. I own a pit and have insurence on the house I own. And I am in Northern cal.

Not all GSD dogs have hip problems. there is an ofa to help with this. Selective breeding is the key. we do not breed dogs with shallow hips. Cops like mals because of there drive and intelligence. It has nothing to do with hips at this level. A good shep pup for four figures, should not have hip problems. And again. If you want apet adopt.

But the dog I want is trained and controlable. And will stop an attacker. I can call off a dog. Not a round.
 
http://www.bullmastiffinfo.org/breed.htm

Bullmastiff. Actually, any of the mastiff or "molosser" breeds.

I don't need a dog that will rip someones throat out, or break an arm on command.

That's my job.

I need a dog whose breed has been around long enough that it's stable. I need a dog with a big enough genetic history that I don't wind up with any psychological surprises.

I need a dog that loves children, that loves his family, who will bark at intruders and then get out from between my shotgun and the critter.

I need a gentle, laid-back, affectionate, calm and loving dog with a bark. One who will let me, or one of the adults in the house, know about any bad guys, so that I can do the needful with a gun, baton or spray.

I don't need a 60-pound cruise missile with teeth. I don't need a trained arm-breaker, or throat-tearer, or gut-spiller.

LawDog
 
I met one those Dogos Argentino on my recent trip to Greece. It belonged to the owner of one of the outside cafes. Sweetest dog I ever met and I am biased towards my own. It just wandered around from table to table. Not accepting food, just checking in on everybody. If I had room for one more dog I would get one.
 
They are great animals. They don't bark though like other dogs who seem to bark at every little thing. The dogo seems to have 3 levels of a bark. One to say hi guys I'm here, I see you, continue on with your activities. The serious bark which is to let people know that they disagree with your actions or as a warning and finally a level of barking that scares the bejeebes out of you yet only occurs if you failed to respond to the serious bark.

When we take our daily walks she does her dog things but at times it looks like she is on patrol. Checking out apartments with open doors or windows. Looking down hallways as if she saw something. Barking at non residents of the complex. Now that is the weird thing. She seems to know who lives in the complex and who doesn't.

The only problem we haven't managed to handel is being with other large dogs. She behaves toward small dogs as if they were her own puppies yet with big dogs it seems to always be a question of who is going to be the Alpha.
 
Alpha dogs

Some say the worst guard dog is an Alpha dog. You are not guarding your house against a dog you are doing it against man. Aggression (against dogs) is not what you want, you want a dog that is trained to protect your property.

Training is the key.

Malcolm B. Willis wrote many books on the subject of the dog, his most complex is the "Genetics of the dog".

You can "google" him, the information you find out, won't need to get a book.

I raised dogs and horse's for over 4 decades. It is interesting the things that you need to know.

You are better off buying one at a higher price, trained, (if that is truly what you want) then you are doing it yourself. IMHO...

Most people will be better suited to get a nice mannered house dog and forget the trained "to kill" type. :what: Natural instincts are something to look for. AKC has ruined the dog. :banghead: IMHO...

HQ:)
 
dogs are great

haven't had one in a long time-move around too much. my last dog was a norwegian elkhound, who was great with alerting me to intrusions, which is what i want since i want to be the one to decide on the sort of interaction to have with the visitor. no one has mentioned the black russian terrier-bred to be the counterpart to the german shepherd and the malinois. supposedly very smart and even tempered.
i now have cats and i think if i needed an animal as defensive agent i would try to work something out with a 50+lb. cat of some sort(you don't own cats, you work something out with them whereby your area becomes a place of repose and reward for the cat). nothing gets by the cat(you may think you do, but you are being watched, and you will be investigated if you make a move the cat sees as threatening to the serenity of its territory. just pile up all your gold around the food bowl and the cat will be there when the invader reaches for it. just the sight of a 50+lb cat will be detrrent enough but , by then , it's too late.
as to 300+lb human psychotics, they can indeed be a handful. i once was called in off the grounds to help with a situation at a psych institute. a 120+lb. guy showed up on one of the wards and by his demeanor had caused the nurse to hit the lockdown switch which closed the doors to the ward. these were two inch thick oak doors held by a bolt 1 1/2" by 1" steel. the guy did a flying kick which bent that bolt enough to jam the doors and we had to get in through the windows to pin him for some thorazine. his last words to me as he went nitey-nite were "i'll kill you, you mf".
one of the stud male nurses with martial arts training took a foot to the gut in that encounter which put him in the emergency room, much to his chagrin. so crazy humans are not a trifling matter-the dog is there to distract and take the beating, which given the dog's armament is, one would hope, not too great; but can be, make no mistake.
(if the big cat could have been called in on this , we could have all gone to lunch and mopped up later).
 
Well katheryne is not a guard dog. She is a companion yet she has these natural instincts for protection that really amaze me. In an effort to make sure she wouldn't have problems a lot of effort was put forth into getting her socialized with other animals and people. Pretty much worked except for the large dog issue.
 
To reiterate: The Japanese Tosa Inu is the most fearsome breed of canine on the planet. It is a TRUE manstopper, including those men who at the moment feel no pain or sense no fear.

Native Tibetan Mastiffs, Presa Canarios, and Filas are right behind.

Utter trainability is nice, but pure stopping power is necessary in worst case scenarios, no matter how rare those might be.
 
Harley is right--those dogs are too big. I'm not saying they're evil or shouldn't be owned. If you want one fine. But please don't buy a FIGHTING DOG as a PROTECTION DOG. Those are two totally different roles, something you may well find out as you try in vain to out your 200 lb. monster from the kid who just jumped your fence. You don't have to search google news too far to see what can happen when fighting mastiff-type dogs are used for protection work, or even when they're in the hands of the wrong owners. Once the blood starts they cannot be controlled. They were bred to be UNLEASHED at the enemy back when brute force and terror ruled the world, to slaughter anything they ran into--women, children, livestock--anything. They were not bred to serve in the extremely complex task of protection work in the modern world. If you want more muscle on your protection dog, good rotts can be found if you shop around that can do perfectly fine in training and can be outed and controlled. They can quite easily rip the arms off a man. Why you'd need more than that I don't know. Rotts, like the GSD's, Malinois and other modern protection breeds, were carefully bred from the late 19th through the early 20th century specifically for complex protection and guarding work. Though Rotts have roots going back to primal times, they are more sophisticated than their rep and are far better able to take complex, remote commands than a Presa or other Mastiff. Contrary to what you might think, there are many dogs physically able to stop and kill any unarmed human. That's not the magic. The magic comes when a single word from their owner can override their every instinct and stop them cold, 100 yards away on a full run. And there are precious few dogs that can do that.
 
I understand what Harley and Cosmoline are saying-- but a giant war dog like a Tosa is not necessarily less of a practical fit for the average human being, than a dog that requires precise tactical training to get the most out of it.

You can buy an uber tactical dog like the GSD or Malinois in hopes of training it to be what you say it should be. But if you fall short in that specialized training-- such as getting lazy or uninformed-- then the error may cost you your life.

A Tosa type animal may be a liability, as it could kill someone who doesn't necessarily need killing-- like a kid hopping over your fence-- but a responsible owner can ensure that those types of things won't happen.
 
Tosa dogs are very cool. But we do a lot of obstickle stuff as well. Not going to jump over a 8ft fence of walk along a two by four. A lot depends on the image you want to project. A cop with a BB or tosa will scare the crap out of old ladys. On the other hand. a Tosa is the a great detterent to a dirtbag eying your house.

People are very emotional about the best dog. That is because they love the dog they have. And they cant think of any dog that could be better. I am guilty of this.

This is the magic of dogs. I have to fight myself from taking home every rescue we kennel. We take in dogs if we have room. Give them basic training, make them nice. fix them and give them to good people. Not breed specific. Lots of people who own our GSd dogs also have a ghetto chow mix or beagle we have given them. You can tell alot about a person by how they treat there dogs. Mine makes me laugh everyday, he protectects my wife and baby. He is my hiking and traveling bud. So for me he is best. As our your dogs for you.

I would buy a dogo or BB if I had room for one more. And money. I have a rescue as well at my house. People get angry if you insult there buddys, I make it a pint never to insult amans dogs,kids or wife.
 
Stevo,

Have you guys worked with Akitas, much? What are your opinions of them as a family dog? (Or, any one else's opinions?)

Thanks.
 
I've heard both good and bad things about Akitas.

Personally, they are the only breed that I do not trust. I was attacked by an Akita when I was 8 years old at a picnic. The dog shook me like a rag doll, holding onto my left shoulder in it's mouth. I have scars in the middle of my back, middle of my chest, and around my shoulder from it's teeth. One of its teeth missed my jugular by less than half an inch. Damn those bad memories.

I'd like to meet another Akita, so I could put my distrust of the breed to rest...because I know it was the dog, and not the breed that attacked me.

I'm sure you'll hear that a lot of the Akita owners love their dogs. Perhaps I'll meet one of those people sometime.

Regards,
 
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