What should you do with your gun after a justified shooting?

[Balrog]

In the recently closed thread regarding detaining a burglar, it was stated that detaining a burglar is a bad idea for many reasons, one of which is that if you are detaining the burglar at gun point, when the police arrive, they may mistake you for a criminal since you are holding a gun and shoot you.

So this raises the question, what should you do with your gun after a justified shooting. I am kind of hesitant to just lay my gun down after a shooting, because you don't know for sure that there are no accomplices. But I don't want to get inadvertantly shot by the police either. According to the previous thread, apparently the police are likely to shoot you if they arrive and you are holding a gun.

What is the general opinion on how to handle this?

 

[Sam1911]

Actually, this has come up a lot here, in many threads on self-defense scenarios.

Certainly you do not want to disarm yourself at any point when there is still a bad guy in your home and/or there might be an accomplice around.

Presumably, if the police are on their way, someone has notified them. Either you or (preferably) someone else in your household is on the phone with them while you are awaiting their arrival.

Make sure you or your partner describe to the dispatcher what the situation is ("My husband is holding the intruder at gunpoint -- the intruder in on the floor of the kitchen"), clearly where you are ("We are in the kitchen, at the back of the house"), how to identify the good guy ("I'm wearing a green and purple striped mu-mu. My husband is wearing a blue bathrobe, white boxers with red hearts, glasses, and is holding a shotgun on the intruder"), and what you/your partner will do when they get there ("I'll throw a house key tied to a flashlight out the side window to the east when we hear the officers pull up -- let yourselves in and we'll stay put right where we are").

Then, when the officers do enter, simply follow their instructions very slowly and carefully. 98 times out of 100, they aren't going to shoot you just because they see you with a gun. Especially if their dispatcher is doing his/her job and told them what kind of situation they're entering.

Of course, resist any tendency to respond to them walking in by pointing your gun their way. They'll probably enter with their weapons drawn, and will probably be at least somewhat covering you as well as the intruder. Everything is not always what it seems in an officer's world, so they're going to want to entirely control the scene before they get to sorting out everyone's story. That means you will be disarmed -- let them take it, or place it on the ground -- whatever they say. That also means you may be cuffed and placed in a cruiser for a while.

Once they've established control of the scene, and probably spoken with your partner and any other witnesses, they'll interview you. Then you politely say, "I really want to help you guys out. I was so scared for my life. I really need to speak with my lawyer before I say anything else though. ... No, I don't wish to make any further statements at this time."

 

[Sam1911]

Ooops... I wrote that as though the situation was an intruder who had surrendered and proned out on your kitchen floor.

If you proned him out yourself, with a bullet, the situation isn't much different. Unless he is unquestionably deceased you really don't want to go ignoring him and whatever threat he may pose as he recovers from the shock of being wounded. Plus, of course he probably does have accomplices who may indeed have stuck around even after hearing/seeing him take a bullet.

For that reason, I would retain my weapon, reload quickly, and take up a position where I could cover the wounded intruder, and yet be shielded from his accomplices' approach. The rest would pan out just the same way.

 

[mustang_steve]

pocket the pistol to where I could quickly draw and react if I needed be, but can also show open palms to the officers as they show up on-site.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Have your partner include the race/coloring of the parties; "We are Latino with black hair and the guy who broke in is a White guy with blond hair"...this does two things:
1. LEO see the suspect's skin/hair, before they'll notice their style sense...or lack thereof
2. Arriving LEOs might be able to spot additional suspects on the way to the scene

Do not be offended if the officers put you on the ground and kneel in your back when they cuff you...that is how felony cuffing is taught and safety is always the first concern

 

[Old krow]

So how does this play out if you live alone and the neighbor calls 911? They're likely to have no description prior to entering the house. Perhaps the dispatcher didn't relay the information correctly.

Then, when the officers do enter, simply follow their instructions very slowly and carefully. 98 times out of 100, they aren't going to shoot you just because they see you with a gun.

I'm not sure if that's an actual statistic or not, but if that is true, police pose an exponentially higher risk to the home owner than the BG did in the first place.

Of course, resist any tendency to respond to them walking in by pointing your gun their way.

Are the police required to make their presence known when they enter?

 

[clutch]

What to do, that is a tough question to answer because every event may be different. Inside your house, I'm hanging on to it until I can see the cops coming up the drive. Then I'm going to put it down or out of sight and make my hands visible.

Hopefully if it was a home invasion I'm still on the phone with the 911 dispatch and the officers responding are in the info loop. Things like, I'm a white male 6' 270# Brown hair blue eyes glasses and the bad guy was 5'10 Black hair with tatoos. I'm just mentioning the bg because he is on the loose since I encouraged him to leave if he had proper sense or if not, he pressed on and is staining my living room carpet.

Now how about in a store? I don't know who is friend or foe. That one I don't have a clue but holding on to my piece as long as possible and trying to make cell contact with dispatch is what I'd try to do.

Bad area of town, really bad, well I don't normally go there but I do travel on business. That one is scary. I want to be able to respond especially if a crowd forms that isn't friendly.

I used to visit a sales office in Inkster, MI about 10-15 years ago. Not a good place after dark. I remember seeing a indoor range close to the sales office and always meant to stop in and fire sweetness at some indoor targets but really didn't like staying in the area after dark so I headed off for the Crown to spend my night.

A few years ago, saw on the news, someone hit the place, stole guns, killed the proprietor and burned the place to cover the robbery / murder. Much as I'd have liked visiting the place, it just seemed like the wrong area to linger in after doing my work at the sales office.

Clutch

 

[9mmepiphany]

So how does this play out if you live alone and the neighbor calls 911? They're likely to have no description prior to entering the house. Perhaps the dispatcher didn't relay the information correctly.

I would highly recommend, if you can, being on the phone with 9-1-1

I'm not sure if that's an actual statistic or not, but if that is true, police pose an exponentially higher risk to the home owner than the BG did in the first place.
There is a high risk, LEOs are looking for a guy with a gun if they are responding to a shots fired call.

See first response

Are the police required to make their presence known when they enter?

I'm sure this varies with jurisdiction, but it has been my experience that there is no requirement, but it is recommendd and taught

 

[LRS_Ranger]

I would reholster, or put the gun within arms reach. You will hear the cops coming most likely, and at that point you can put your hands out or back away from the gun.

 

[pa350z]

Own and learn how to use handcuffs!! Its not that hard. My game plan is to handcuff the perp on the floor. All the time letting 911 know what I am doing. My pistol will, however, be on my person most likely in my pants pocket. Not sure I will have a holster on me at the time. If I can not utilize cuffs, then I will hold the perp at bay until LEO arrives all the time doing what many on this board mention .... constantly communicating with 911

 

[sidheshooter]

-1 on the cuffs; do not approach! First step is, as mentioned, to take care of business; make sure threat is not a threat, reload (good on Sam for mentioning that), check for holes in innocents,prepare a welcome committee for the police if possible, reholster (no flimsy IWBs for me, top quality gear only; now we're seeing why one-handed reholstering is a must-have ability) but keep hand on gun until absolutely sure you're in the clear, etc. etc...

A good primer on this can be found in a course like LFI-1 (MAG-whatever is 40 hrs now...) FWIW.

 

[LRS_Ranger]

I would prefer not to get close enough to get into a wrestling match for my gun... Unless you were a trained LEO, I wouldn't mess with all that.

 

[Sam1911]

My game plan is to handcuff the perp on the floor

Hmm. As mentioned in another recent thread, I have no intention of trying to hold/detain an intruder unless they choose that plan themselves.

Further, under almost no circumstances would I plan to get close enough to them to do something like handcuff them. That's something that trained law-enforcement officers hate to risk doing without their backup/partner covering the suspect for them. If I'm alone, I'm trusting that I can manage the gun, the cuffs, and the intruder without the incredibly motivated and adrenaline-charged violent criminal INCHES away from me being able to grab, disarm, and maybe kill me. Truth be told, if I was not alone at the time of the attack, I don't really think I want to send someone I care about to get that close to him, either. I may practice "hostage" shots at the range, but I sure don't ever want to have to make one.

Handcuffing a willing practice dummy isn't hard. Handcuffing someone who was just waiting for you to get close enough for their chance to turn the tables is a whole different game.

 

[Frank Ettin]

-1 on the cuffs; do not approach! First step is, as mentioned, to take care of business; make sure threat is not a threat, reload (good on Sam for mentioning that), check for holes in innocents,prepare a welcome committee for the police if possible, reholster (no flimsy IWBs for me, top quality gear only; now we're seeing why one-handed reholstering is a must-have ability) but keep hand on gun until absolutely sure you're in the clear, etc. etc...

A good primer on this can be found in a course like LFI-1 (MAG-whatever is 40 hrs now...)...

A "right on" synopsis. And yes, it's MAG40 now. Oh, and you want to be able to re-holster both one handed and without looking.

 

[Zombiphobia]

I could be wrong about this, but if you identify yourself as the home owner when police arrive... why would they shoot you? Besides, shouldn't the situation be covered with the operator/dispatcher?

Most cops I've met/know are a bit more sensible than that. If they shoot you in your home, they have to be justified, and holding an invader/burglar at gunpoint is not enough to justify shooting you.

Have the good sense to identify yourself, and first explaining the situation to the operator/dispatcher on the phone when you call.
Most cops are really not that dumb, though.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I could be wrong about this, but if you identify yourself as the home owner when police arrive... why would they shoot you? Besides, shouldn't the situation be covered with the operator/dispatcher?...

You simply are not being realistic.

Police arrive at a "man with a gun" call or a "burglar there now" call. They are walking into a situation that might get them killed. They are under considerable stress. They have no idea whatsoever what happened. They do not know any of the people involved. And when they arrive, you're standing there holding a gun and claiming to live there. Among other things, why should they believe you? And just because you live there doesn't mean that you're innocent. If you are standing there with a gun, they have no reason to believe that you are not a threat.

The cops are simply not going to be listening to anyone's story or even start to figure out what happened until the site is secure and everyone (but them) disarmed.

Yes, you identify yourself as the resident and describe yourself on the 911 call. But don't indulge the fantasy that will resolve the matter.

...If they shoot you in your home, they have to be justified, and holding an invader/burglar at gunpoint is not enough to justify shooting you...

They don't know that the guy you're holding at gunpoint is a home invader or burglar. Even if you say so, why would they believe you. Criminals on occasion tell lies like that. As far as they know, the guy you're holding, or that you shot, was a friend you got mad at for some reason.

And as far as their justification for shooting you, if you don't immediately drop the gun when instructed and if you make any movement that could be interpreted as a movement of the gun in the direction of an officer, or anyone else, they would be justified.

They don't really know it's you house, and they don't know you're an innocent victim. At the moment they arrive, you're only a man with a gun.

 

[JohnBiltz]

When you hear the sirens getting close put the gun down and put your hands on your head and step away from the gun. No one is going to rush in to shoot you with a police car pulling up to your place. But if you keep the gun in your hand the police may very well shoot you.

 

[uspJ]

I would reholster the weapon when I see/hear the police pull up and start making there way to my door. Once they are inside they can decide what I do with it from there. Untill the police are present you can't be 100% sure the scene is secure, there could be an accomplice lurking about trying to wait for a time to rescue his wounded partner or get revenge or kill a witness. That is why I advocate after a shooting in the home you take a better defensive position if one is available to you and wait for leo response. For example f you shot him in your living room fall back to a bedroom.

 

[david58]

Reholstering a shotgun could be tough. I think I would (hoping my thinker is working in the stress of the moment) step back another step from the BG, and carefully lay the gun down and step away from it with hands on my head. +1 on the politeness, and for asking to talk to a lawyer before an interview.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Definitely call 911 or have a member of the household call 911 describing the persons and situation. Otherwise the officers will be responding to neighbors reporting "shots fired" or "man with a gun" and no other info.

 

[uspJ]

Reholstering a shotgun could be tough

Not with the right holster
You are correct though, I wasn't thinking about a long gun since I'm usually still wearing a pistol in my home.

If I had used a long gun I would still follow my previous advice and move to a different room than where the shooting took place and wait for the arrival of leo to secure the scene. I would lay down the gun once they were making there way in and stay away from it.

 

[The Bushmaster]

After a "justified shooting"...Change to a fresh magazine. Wait for authorities to arrive. Await their instructions.

 

[hso]

More seriously, #3 and be on the phone with the 911 dispatcher and give them a description of what you're wearing so that they don't mistake you for the BG. If the BG has exsanguinated then you should put the weapon in a safe place and await the leos at the front door.

 

[armoredman]

When you hear the sirens getting close put the gun down and put your hands on your head and step away from the gun. No one is going to rush in to shoot you with a police car pulling up to your place. But if you keep the gun in your hand the police may very well shoot you.

Bad guy grabs gun, shoots you and runs - HE HAS NOTHING TO LOSE! Don't do this, bad juju.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by pa350Z: Own and learn how to use handcuffs!!

Use cuffs after a justified shooting?

Its not that hard.

Unless, of course, the perp chooses to resist.

My game plan is to handcuff the perp on the floor.

Without help? Not knowing where his accomplice may be? Very dangerous.

If I can not utilize cuffs, then I will hold the perp at bay until LEO arrives all the time doing what many on this board mention .... constantly communicating with 911

This has been discussed in depth in another thread. Here's what an experienced Texas LEO has to say:

Detaining someone is fraught with danger!

If I am detaining someone, I have too much attention focused on him, when he may have unseen accomplices who will attack out of the darkness, from a blind side, or his getaway driver may come to his aid, toting an AK. (Don't scoff at this third case; this seems to be a recent trend in a certain big city in Texas.) If I am moving in to apply restraints, I am even more focused on the detained bad guy, making myself more vulnerable, and of course, then have to contend with desperate moves by the primary bad guy himself.

This part is more relevant to to the original question:

Regarding the police arriving on the scene ..., well, there is simply no guarantee. Here, in Texas, officers are indeed well aware that it is likely a homeowner will be armed, but there is also the very human tendency for anyone holding a gun to turn with the gun, and therefore a homeowner who is tunneled-in on the intruder may well turn with the gun in hand when first perceiving officers, and therefore be seen as a threat by those officers. An officer is going to give his own safety the benefit of the doubt. Experienced officers, with some seniority, are more likely to have been there and done that enough to be able to read the situation accurately, whereas younger and/or less-experienced officers are more likely to be too quicker on the trigger, IMHO. In the dead of night, guess which officers are more likely to be responding to a burglary-in-progress?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6887308&postcount=115

In Boulder, CO, a policeman shot a homeowner holding a gun six times a couple of years ago.

Some time ago, I bought a Smith and Wesson M&P9c, and a mass produced, name brand, leather IWB holster for it.

After I had finally put enough rounds through the gun for me to feel that I could rely on it, I strapped it on.

The holster was useless! It was flimsy, and I could not put the gun back into the holster one-handed. For a number of reasons, the question that initiated this thread being very high among them, that's not acceptable at all.

Had to buy another holster.

Fortunately, when I had bought my 1911-style .45 ACP with a shorter-than-standard slide and barrel, I ordered a custom leather IWB holster that had been recommended by fiddletown. I can lie down and roll over on it and it will stay open.

It was not inexpensive, and it took a while to get it, but my later experience with the flimsy one confirmed the wisdom of the choice.