What will you do when they come for you?

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We are warned that in combat our fine motor skills will go out the window.

I presume that, in comparable situations, our fine thinking/reasoning/conversational skills go out the window too.

When an armed officer is standing at your door with a half-dozen of his ilk, and demands your firearms, inviting him in for a polite discussion about Constitutional law will not follow. I doubt effective conversation will be anything more than a firm "please leave - NOW".

Beware the armed officer who insists on entering your home without cause. Engaging in conversation only feeds into his plan. Your time is likely very short. You may give them pause to repeat the visit on others, but you may not be around to contemplate your noble deed.
 
We are warned that in combat our fine motor skills will go out the window.

I presume that, in comparable situations, our fine thinking/reasoning/conversational skills go out the window too.
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Nope.

First of all, we're not in combat. No different from a cop coming to tell us the neighbors have complained about our dog barking.

Second, you're prepared. Preparation goes a long way toward making up for nervousness and emotional reactions.

Third, you have the moral high ground.
 
Vern: What law school did you attend? I want to be sure that my son leaves your alma mater off his list of potential law schools. ;)
 
Death is a part of life.
Fending off death for as long as possible isn't what makes us human.
How we face our death, fighting to the last, facing the unknown, holding our pride and protecting what we hold dear with our last breath and action.

THAT is Human.

That said. If it comes to the point where the cops are coming to your house to either arrest you for owning your guns, or to confiscate your guns. Then to them you are already breaking the law. So if they are going to do it anyway, give them a DAMN good reason to try to take you.

When the law is no longer holding to what is suppose to be legal, then every good citizen is an outlaw, or a criminal.

To quote the previews for Serinity. "Let's be bad guys."
Because if they come nocking to get my guns, the point isn't to try to survive. The point is to make a statement.
 
If it comes to the point where the cops are coming to your house to either arrest you for owning your guns, or to confiscate your guns. Then to them you are already breaking the law.
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No. Look at New Orleans. The National Guard and Police knew (or were fairly doubtful) about the illegality of moving people by force, entering houses without permission, and taking guns. Many people simply refused, and although the police and Guard tried to talk them around, those who stood firm were left alone.

The strategy when faced with such a situation is:

1. Be polite but firm.
2. Ask for a warrant.
3. Have witnesses and take steps to collect and preserve evidence of what happened (including taking pictures, perhaps including a concealed camera.)
4. If they persist and do enter your home, take your guns, etc, sue later.

The odds are very good that "confiscated" guns will not be turned in, but ripped off by those who confiscate them. In such a case, you can probably not only sue but bring criminal charges.

And if everyone threatened this way sued or brought charges, the next time the authorities would not try such blatantly unconstitutional seizures and searches.
 
Threatening them in that situation is only a last ditch measure, since it will result in deaths. A firm refusal, taking the names of the officers involved and threatening legal action would seem to be in order in NOLA. I'd want them to arrest me on specific charges of refusing to hand over firearms. I'd want my rights read to me, have a hearing and a court date.

Of course, they've got no court to go to, limited jail space and their administration is so FUBAR'd I would be able to invalidate their arrest on procedural grounds without even getting to the substantive issues. I doubt these guardsmen and rent-a-cops from LA know the local law or have been properly sworn in as local LEO's. The evidence suggests they're focusing their efforts on the same folks who ALWAYS get to be the target of the JBT's--poor folks with dark skin.

If they just take me without an arrest, that also gives rise to a number of claims, including some under section 1983. Whether or not the NOLA regulation purporting to allow the Mayor to declare himself King during a state of martial law is valid or not remains to be seen. I have my doubts. Esp. when it comes to forcing people on dry ground out of their homes and into concentration camps.

In Alaska, I'd be happy to go through those motions since I would be able to sue them individually for violation of my right to keep and bear arms under state law. I'm not sure about Louisiana.
 
A firm refusal, taking the names of the officers involved and threatening legal action would seem to be in order in NOLA. I'd want them to arrest me on specific charges of refusing to hand over firearms. I'd want my rights read to me, have a hearing and a court date.
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And gather and preserve all the evidence.
 
Vern: I was just ribbing you a little. As far as I know, nothing that you recommended is illegal. However, giving legal advice that's nonsensical would beg my previous question! :cool: Hint: You really think that a third party's refusing to sign any document that you prepared makes for grounds for a lawsuit? Gimme a break!
 
Hint: You really think that a third party's refusing to sign any document that you prepared makes for grounds for a lawsuit? Gimme a break!
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No, looting is grounds for a lawsuit (and when armed men illegally take your property, and keep it for themselves, that's looting.) Violation of civil rights is grounds for a lawsuit.

Your aim is FIRST to dissuade them -- firmly but politely show them the consequences of their actions. THAT is what the paper is for.

If you later have to sue, a videotape of the incident could well be used as proof they knew what they were doing was wrong.
 
Times-Picaynue, Saturday, September 10, 2005, bottom of page A-9

Knee-deep in melted clocks, scribes paint Dali landscape

Pencil behind ear, and .38 on hip

By Chris Rose
Columnist

You hear the word "surreal" in every report from this city now. There is no better word for it.

If Salvador Dali showed up here, he wouldn't be able to make heads or tails of it. Nobody could paint this.

He did that famous painting of the melting clock, and our clocks melted at 6:45 the morning of Aug. 29. That's what the clocks in the French Quarter still say. That's when time stood still.

The Quarter survived all this; you've probably heard that much. Most of what remains unscathed - and I'm using a very relative term here - is a swath of dry land from the Riverbend through Audubon Park, down St. Charles and Tchoupitoulas to the Quarter and into the Bywater.

It's like a land mass the size of Bermuda, maybe, but with not so many golf courses.

There are other dry outposts in the great beyond - little Key Wests across the city - but I haven't seen them.

The weather is beautiful, I don't mind telling you. But if I wrote you a post card, it wouldn't say, "Wish You Were Here."

There are still hearty rose bushes blooming on front porches, and there are still birds singing in the park. But the park is a huge National Guard encampment.

There are men and women from other towns living there in tents and who have left their families to come help us and they are in the park clearing out the fallen timber. My fellow Americans.

Every damn one of them tells you they're happy to be here (despite what you've heard, it still beats the hell out of Fallujah), and every time I try to thank them, on behalf of all of us, I just lose it. I absolutely melt down.

There is nothing quite as ignominious as weeping in front of a soldier.

This is no environment for a wuss like me. We reporters go to other places to cover wars and disasters and pestilence and famine. There's no manual to tell you how to do this when it's your own city.

And I'm telling you: It's hard.

It's hard not to get crispy around the edges. It's hard not to cry. It's hard not to be very, very afraid.

My colleagues who are down here are warriors. There are a half-dozen of us living in a small house on a side street Uptown. Everyone else has been cleared out.

We have a generator and water and military food rations and Doritos and smokes and booze. After deadline, the call goes out: "Anyone for some warm brown liquor?" And we sit on the porch in the very, very still of the night and we try to laugh.

Some of these guys lost their houses - everything in them. But they're here, telling our city's story.

And they stink. We all stink. We stink together.

We have a bunch of guns, but it's not clear to me if anyone in this "news bureau" knows how to use them.

The California National Guard came by and wanted an accounting of every weapon in the building and they wrote the serial numbers down and apparently our guns are pretty rad because they were all cooing over the .38s.

I guess that's good to know.

The Guard wanted to know exactly what we had so they would be able to identify, apparently by sound, what guns were in whose hands if anything "went down" after dark here at this house.

That's not so good to know.

They took all our information and bid us a good day and then sauntered off to retrieve a dead guy on a front porch down the street.

Then the California Highway Patrol - the CHiPs! - came and demanded we turn over our weapons.

What are you going to do? We were certainly outnumbered, so we turned over the guns. Then, an hour later, they brought them back. With no explanation.

Whatev. So here we are. Just another day at the office.

Maybe you've seen that Times-Picayune advertising slogan before: "News, Sports and More."

More indeed. You're getting your money's worth today.
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LawDog
 
Been to the edge of this precipice before over a phone call. An error in my records caused the chief of police to question why a felon was purchasing firearms.
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Same problem. A computer glitch at the state level showed that I was a recent local felon (a multiple murderer, ex LEO) when I when I applied for a pistol purchase permit (this is Jersey - a permit per gun) about two years ago. The glitch changed one letter in my name.

What saved me was familiarity. I buy guns all the time and in Jersey, you have to make a big deal of it...in other words, my local jurisdiction (where you actually apply for the permit) was a bit more sanguine than the state.

The info coming down from on high that I was a dangerous (and currently incarcerated?) felon was taken with a grain of salt. I got a call to come in, prove my identity (again), and got it straightened out....although the state part took 6 months before I could buy again.

I live in the absolute worst state in the Union for buying guns...and I couldn't have asked for better treatment or quicker resolution from my local Chief of Police...A Democrat in the reddest township in the reddest county in one of the bluest states.

You always hear about the Chiefs that are gun-grabbers. You should hear about one that isn't.
 
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