What's the future of .40 S&W?

[justin22885]

unfortunately there are a lot of dead cartridges i like more than whats typically available.. .38 super pushes a 147 grain bullet at the same speeds a 9 mil will push a 124.. .30 luger is a very accurate, very high velocity cartridge that when made on 9mm +P brass can match the characteristics of a 7.62x25..

unfortunately the manufacturers just keep giving us the same three and they always will.. i know they do it because these are the popular options, however its becoming a bland market and most people buy into these calibers because theyre all thats available, making them more popular.. i've lost count of how many people have told me theyd rather have a 38 super or 9x23 winchester over 9mm if anyone actually made pistols for them outside of converted 1911s

 

[kcofohio]

Having a full size M&P40 and a carbine in 40 S&W, I rarely take them to the range. Nothing against the caliber. And not for the lack of ammo, as I have more than enough factory and reloads.

Just that I find 9, 357, and 45 enough to fit the bill.

But I don't see the 40 going away. And I plan on keeping mine. I mean, it's not like they take up that much space.

 

[JO JO]

Just because the FBI is switching back that does not mean everyone will
I have read the a big factor of the FBI doing this is to save money as the same with some LE agency's they all have cut backs and reduced budgets to work with.
All the State Police and LEO's around here carry 40 s&w I think folks base too much on what the hype says look at what is in their holsters I see many many G22's and even some 45's given a choice I would think none of them would ditch a 45 or 40 to carry a 9mm but some agency's don't allow the Officer to choose what they want to carry, if they all could make the choice themselves it may be a different story.

 

[gun_with_a_view]

Before you know it, someone will backwards engineer a revolver cartridge to duplicate the 357 SIG semi-auto round. Now, there is a gun and ammo that will fly off the shelves and outdo all comers. Read my lips. It will be no contest.

 

[Gordon]

the switch back to 9mm has a LOT to do with some folks being unable to control .40 horsepower. My have times changed !

 

[TruthTellers]

For me the .40S&W really shines in the sub-compact concealed carry pistols. I have a pair of Shields, one in .40 the other 9mm. I carry the .40 and practice with the 9mm. At 50 rounds a week the cost savings in practice ammo pays for the 9mm pistol in a couple of years and saves wear and tear on my carry gun which only gets shot a couple of times a year to rotate in "fresh" ammo and verify immunity to carry "FOD" that eventually accumulates.

I've been of the opinion that .40 is worst in those sub compacts and best in the practical/tactical Glock 35 type guns for the reduction in recoil and longer sights.

 

[ljnowell]

The original question almost sounds like the OP wants to wish it away. I just smile when I see this same topic posted about every 90 days or so.



One quality of .40 S&W no one has mentioned is it makes clean nice round holes in the target. Much sharper edges than 9mm or .45acp. So I imagine the OCD crowd prefers it too.

That's a function of bullet profile, not caliber.

 

[JO JO]

^^ very true when the agency is was in dropped the 9mm and went with the P229 40 s&w many had to revisit basic marksmanship once people were schooled on correct form everyone quilified just fine but it's takes practice and money to do so
The 9mm is much easier for folks to shoot ok with without lots of practice and money in ammo since most police shoot once year to be quilified
We used to shoot quilifacation every 3 months but that was with the administration and funding was available now I hear from the guys that funding dried up several years ago and not as much range time I really do believe money
Is a huge factor with this and cutbacks force change not always for the better

 

[Sunray]

USPSA and all the other shooting games. Cartridges die when shooters stop buying 'em.
"...some agency's don't allow the Officer to choose..." Likely most of 'em these days. The days of new cops having any kind of firearm experience prior to being hired are long gone. Most have never seen are real firearm either.
"...a revolver cartridge to duplicate the 357 SIG semi-auto..." Done long ago by Ruger. LCR 9mm and Blackhawk before that.

 

[JO JO]

some agency's don't allow the Officer to choose..." Likely most of 'em these days. The days of new cops having any kind of firearm experience prior to being hired are long gone. Most have never seen are real firearm either.

As you said is very true I would bet that the FBI decision was made by pencil pushers and bean counters and not the field Agents.

 

[P5 Guy]

Where are the 41AE, 45GAP?
Not much of a future like the above?
I only had one pistol in 40S&W a Star now long gone.

 

[CoalTrain49]

so I'm wondering who will still be using .40 S&W in the future?

Probably everyone that purchased one because all of the LE agencies drank the kool aid. Lots of used 40's out there now from agencies trading them in. I can't believe ammo will ever be an issue with that many guns out there. 357 Sig, well that's a different topic.

 

[Deaf Smith]

As you said is very true I would bet that the FBI decision was made by pencil pushers and bean counters and not the field Agents.

No doubt that's true. The Texas DPS has already said their move to the 9mm is a cost issue. They said the 9mm was 'good enough'. Yet years ago when the .357 Sig was adopted by them their spokesman said they wanted the 'lighting bolt' stop of the old .357 Magnum. I guess somehow they decided a lower powered cartridge gave the same 'lighting bolt', or not.

Bean counters are bean counters.

Still I expect the .40 and .357 Sig to be here a long time. After all even the .38 super is still made, right?

Deaf

 

[HKGuns]

Fact: if .45GAP were offered at the end of the 80s there NEVER would have been demand for .40S&W

Hardly fact. Yeah, because GAP is currently so popular? Hardly.

I've never owned a .40 and never will, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Used pistols in .40 sell at a 20-25% discount because it is losing popularity.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I own a S&W SD40VE for when the next panic happens(9 will be gone--40 will be on the shelf)----its a decent gun and I got it CHEAP and I have no plans on upgrading it at all - maybe another mag or 2 but I'm in no hurry.

If the .40 dies off? No big deal--I have nothing in the gun.

 

[barnbwt]

"however its becoming a bland market and most people buy into these calibers because theyre all thats available"
Hey, buy a 5.7 and a TCM and a 50GI or shut up! I think the majority of the stagnation is because pistol-buyers are incredibly boring consumers, anymore.

"Gimme that gun with 100 years of proven service*, chambered in a round that's got 110 years of proven service**, and is the winner of the last 20 years of competitions***, and is the favorite of all my favorite living gun writers/teachers****, and was the favorite of all my favorite dead gun writers/teachers*****, and was the gun in service during my personal choice of armed conflict******"

Not very hard to see why there's such a lack of innovation :banghead:. The most hilarious part is when you contrast this dutiful concern for staid reliability to, say, the purchase of new car tires --something way more likely to kill you if the model year change screws something up

*not that said gun's design has remained the same over all that time
**not that said round has anything resembling a 110 year old bullet, powder, case, or primer
***said competitions often specifically tailored to a certain gun or cartridge
****not that they're necessarily any less the blowhard than we forum-trolls
*****even though they often were bigger blowhards than anyone living
******even though every gun we ever fielded has been ill-suited in some way to the conflict it served in

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

"Fact: if .45GAP were offered at the end of the 80s there NEVER would have been demand for .40S&W"
If there'd never been 10mm there never would have been 40SW, so it's probably either Cooper's fault for designing it, or Keith's fault for designing the 357 whose power levels it was seeking to emulate. Or maybe it's Dornhaus & Dixon's (& also Cooper's to a much lesser extent) fault for screwing up the Bren Ten so badly that it never got the chance to serve valiantly in the roles ultimately granted to the 40? Or S&W for making their 3rd gen pistols in 10mm so ungodly huge that the FBI was convinced they needed a much smaller platform.

If frogs had wishes, they wouldn't bump their butts on the ground when they hop

TCB

 

[fallingbird]

Wasn't a lot of .40 hollow point ammo produced for gov't contracts recently? What happens to it now? Do we the underlings get to practice with hst's instead of ball when it's sold as surplus?

 

[JO JO]

yes large quantities were acquired on an open contract the 40 is here to stay
the FBI is ONLY 1 Agency the others are still very active with issued 40's and
have no plans of changing in fact I wounder if the FBI is the ONLY Gov Agency supporting the 9mm ?
US Coast Guard
ATF
US Border Patrol
Secret Service
DEA
US Customs
ICE
and so on are issued 40's if fact the US Coast Guard and DEPT Homeland Security dropped the 9mm in favor of the 40.
I would not be surprised if the majority of Law Enforcement will stay with the 40.
Just because the FBI made a change to save cost does not mean everyone will jump.
Just think the US Military wants and is in process of dropping the 9mm I think folks are way over thinking one Agency's choice.
It's been around a decade or so that folks have been saying this, 40 s&w on its way out buy really it seems to be a very common and popular and effective choice, just because police trade in a gun does not mean there changing calibers example they trade in all their G22 Gen 2 /3 and replace it with G22 Gen 4.

 

[Nom de Forum]

We should all be lucky to live so long to be able to witness the demise of the .40 S&W. If you have children and are posting to this forum you will probably not live to see the day .40 S&W is no longer available.

 

[Panzerschwein]

It's going to replace the 9mm AND .45 ACP!!!

Just kidding. It will stick around for some time. Too many .40 guns out there.

 

[TruthTellers]

Probably everyone that purchased one because all of the LE agencies drank the kool aid. Lots of used 40's out there now from agencies trading them in. I can't believe ammo will ever be an issue with that many guns out there. 357 Sig, well that's a different topic.

Ok, I guess I'm gonna be the one to defend the move to the .40 over two decades ago.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's there was a massive movement to upgrade the service pistols of police and law officers to automatics. The .45 had just been dropped as standard issue by all branches of the military and there was still the cost factor of .45 ammo, so that was really not an option.

The 9mm was determined back in the 80's to be an ineffective round. This was at the time, today 9mm has become a decent stopper with better hollow points and higher pressure loads. The real deal that sealed the .40 was the tests conducted by the FBI. At the time, the .40 was found to be better than 9mm and it wasn't as hot as 10mm.

The .40 was the right round at the time. Now, I think the .357 Sig is probably the more powerful round, but the cost is too much for strapped departments and agencies to spare which is why they're switching to 9mm.

 

[ROAshooter]

"Ok, I guess I'm gonna be the one to defend the move to the .40 over two decades ago."

which 40 cal have you personally owned?

or is it another round you just read about/utube watch...or rent on occassion?

 

[Gtscotty]

.40 is going nowhere, there are a bunch of alphabet soup agencies out there still using it, who cares what a bunch of lawyers at the FBI are allowed to carry? The sheer number of .40 firearms in circulation make this a rediculous line of discussion. What I really don't understated is how some folks can say that .40 has no place amongst 9mm and .45, then turn around and sing the praises of .357 Sig. Really? A round that has diameter, Bullet weight, and velocity at any given weight over 9mm, and has capacity, and smaller pistol size over .45 is useless, but a round that basically has a little velocity avantage over 9mm +P has a place in the world?

 

[BSA1]

I have read the a big factor of the FBI doing this is to save money as the same with some LE agency's they all have cut backs and reduced budgets to work with.

Police and Sheriff Departments in my immediate area is a case of "monkey see, monkey do."

A large nearby metro size Police Department of 400 - 500 officers issues Glock 40's as does the large Sheriff Departments. Most, actually all of them I can think of right now, also issue Glock 40's.

The range masters and some of the top brass have repeatedly expressed the desire to go back to the 9mm for easier qualification of officers and budget reasons. However the powers that control the budget are not "gun guys" so they don't see the need for the change when there are other expensive priorities such as body cameras.

Most of the Chiefs of the surrounding communities were top brass in the Police or Sheriff Department. They retired from the larger agency and were hired to run the much smaller bedroom communities police departments. They brought with them the same "not gun guys" attitude.

Arguably with the big improvements in 9mm bullet design and performance there is not much difference between it and the 40.