What's the future of .40 S&W?

[Candyman87]

I don't see .40 going anywhere soon. With many compact/subcompact concealed carry handguns only coming chambered in 9mm or .40, that's the preferred option for some.

Enough police departments are using it, nearby police mostly carry .40's. Most of my friends prefer .40 over 9mm. For each their own.

Even without FBI using .40, it will stick around for a good long time.

That being said, as a reloader, I certainly wouldn't miss .40 S&W brass in my bucket to sort through! Because of this, I haven't owned a .40, and most likely won't in the future. I have nightmares about 9mm stacked in 40 stacked in 45.

 

[bannockburn]

I have to go along with everyone who says that .40 S&W isn't going away anytime in the near future. Ammunition and components manufacturers have too much time, money, and effort tied up in the .40 to abandon it now.

 

[Skribs]

I think that the .40 S&W has found it's place as the middle round between 9mm and .45 ACP. That means it has all the pros and cons of both, just to a lesser degree. Personally, I like the 9 the most (I value capacity highest of the various pros and cons), which means .40 S&W is second, .357 sig is third (because my next priority is PWC, which .40 has a wider one than .357) and .45 ACP is last, at least of the primary ones.

However, many people consider the 9mm not enough but the .40 enough, so it holds place with them.
Many people want the .40 for it's position in shooting games.
Many people already have a .40, and think "why should I get rid of it?"
Many people want to own all of the major calibers so if there is a short supply of one, they can get another.
Many people want to own a .40 just to have something different from the others in their collection.

My first gun was a .40. I also have a 9 and a .380. If I was going to limit myself to one caliber, it would be 9. But I want a .45 (I have some leftover .45 ammo from a range rental) and wouldn't mind having more. If I could afford all of these...

 

[greenlion]

The 40 S&W does not have to be a "Snappy" round. Ammo manufacturers have made it that. Shooting the original load of a 180 grain bullet at around 950 fps makes for a very controllable gun. Manufacturers capitalized on the fact that it COULD be loaded hotter without considering if there was a benefit that outweighed the increased recoil. Look at the 40S&W results in this test.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP
The loads that used a 180 gr bullet going near 950 fps penetrated and expanded perfectly with less overpenetration than other rounds. Enough is enough.

 

[Luger_carbine]

Its not going to be NATO's next handgun round I can tell you that.

Even for those people who want something new for NATO in a handgun, there is probably over 10 billion euros worth of sub machine guns chambered for 9mm across Europe and that's not going away any time soon.

 

[Mike J]

Interesting thread. I own 2 .40 caliber handguns & they aren't going anywhere. I believe .40 will be around for a long time yet. Of course I also think it is good to have firearms in all the most common service calibers (.40, 9mm & .45).

 

[Casefull]

The 40 is a much nastier round than either the 9 or 45 in my opinion. I like and shoot all 3 calibers including 10mm and 38 super, etc. When you take into account the mag capacity, size of pistol, bullet diameter, and velocity, The 40 stands alone. Many 40 loads are actually hotter than same bullet sized 10mm loads.

 

[CNobbe]

I have one pistol in .357 Sig which to me is a nice compromise between .40 and 9mm. I bought it back when 9mm was in short supply, and .357 was.

 

[ljnowell]

The 40 is a much nastier round than either the 9 or 45 in my opinion. I like and shoot all 3 calibers including 10mm and 38 super, etc. When you take into account the mag capacity, size of pistol, bullet diameter, and velocity, The 40 stands alone. Many 40 loads are actually hotter than same bullet sized 10mm loads.

Only because the 10mm load was downloaded.

 

[justin22885]

i wish i could download 10mm, it would be so much quicker than picking it up from the store.. just download it and print it off

anyway, jokes aside, if the 10mm hasnt gone anywhere yet, the 40 wont either.. im not entirely sure most people really care what one LEO group or ABC agency uses.. as others have mentioned their decisions are not about whats best.. theres always some bureaucrat who doesnt actually have to use the weapons that decides which weapons are to be used

so if your decision as to what YOU should use hinges on what some agency uses.. then shame on you for not thinking for yourself

 

[JO JO]

^^^^well said ^^^^

 

[C0untZer0]

Agencies can make bad decisions based on cost-cutting or the ego of whoever is in charge but I don't pretend that my self-defense decisions are completely removed from whatever agencies do.

Before the FBI began spending money on trying to find their agents the very most effective round, we had unsubstantiated theories like relative-knock-em-down indices and one-shot does it "statistics"

If it weren't for the California Highway Patrol hiring Duncan MacPherson we wouldn't have the IWBA protocol.

I'm not going to just discard the millions of dollars spent on researching terminal ballistics and based on my own opinion start using some wildcat cartridge because I think it fits my unique needs.

 

[gun_with_a_view]

I'm not going to just discard the millions of dollars spent on researching terminal ballistics and based on my own opinion start using some wildcat cartridge because I think it fits my unique needs.

The jury is out on the new Ruger/Polycase and Lehigh Extreme Penetrator" ammo. When the jury returns, it's likely to cause a complete upset of the applecart as we know it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4wjFmTMLvk

 

[justin22885]

military, LEO, and agency testing is about as overrated as it is overpriced.. its just an excuse for politicians to give millions to their corporate cronies and political cronies appointed to the head of those agencies to throw tax money in their direction... it doesnt take millions of dollars to buy a few boxes of ammunition to shoot at a variety of materials to see what penetrates what

 

[Lj1941]

I think the 40 S&W will be around just about as the 38 Special was as a police/LE round. IMO the 40 is the best of both worlds, fairly high capacity with the power of the 45 ACP (In some loads) in a 9mm sized package.

 

[justin22885]

I think the 40 S&W will be around just about as the 38 Special was as a police/LE round. IMO the 40 is the best of both worlds, fairly high capacity with the power of the 45 ACP (In some loads) in a 9mm sized package.

though 9mm +P can produce the same amount of kinetic energy with an even higher capacity and generating still less bolt thrust and wear than a full power 40S&W will.. because of the smaller base diameter a 9mm will always be able to be pushed up to higher pressure limits than a 40 in the same action before theres significant structural damage

9mm +P+ may be safe in a pistol that only standard pressure 40S&W is suitable for

 

[Girodin]

A large nearby metro size Police Department of 400 - 500 officers issues Glock 40's as does the large Sheriff Departments. Most, actually all of them I can think of right now, also issue Glock 40's.

I take it you are trying to say they issue glocks chambered in 40 S&W (most like Glock 22s) and not actual glock 40s, the long slide MOS 10mm?

View attachment 734760

 

[Bama Drifter]

.40 ISN'T a great compromise...

^^^ What Justin said, post #91 is absolutely correct. IIRC, the majority of early 90s Glock KB'd guns were from the pistols NOT BEING ABLE to handle the .40S&W stress in a 9mm frame. Newton may be dead, but his laws cannot be broken.

If you run a hot .40 cartridge using 9mm equipment (Glock 22/23/27) you rapidly decrease the life of the gun. THAT is why FBI and others are switching back to 9mm. If you run a bunch of Federal 9BPLE which is very hot +P+ ammo through a G 17/19/26 the gun isn't as likely to pop.

The great hype that .40S&W would give us the power of a .45ACP with near 9mm capacity was mere hype. Party over. 9mm & .45 are good enough (as is .38Spl +P).

 

[MIL-DOT]

FWIW, I've been noticing for a while now on my local classifed sites, that when someone lists their possible trade interests, a surprising number of them say, "nothing in .40 cal".

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

I'll be the odd man out, I like my 40's. I've got 3 of'em and enjoy shooting them. I've shot them enough that I've mastered the recoil impulse, which really isn't that bad in a full size pistol.

The 40 isn't going anywhere IMHO.

 

[mavracer]

9mm +P can produce the same amount of kinetic energy

No it can't, and KE is largely irrelevant when discussing service handgun rounds.
Your pressure/bolt thrust theory really doesn't fly either the 40 generates more bolt thrust for any given pressure because the base of the bullet has more area for pressure to act upon so 35k psi X .4 dia> 37.5k psi X .355 dia

 

[SDGlock23]

If that relic known as the 10mm is still somewhat kicking when it really doesn't offer that much, the .40 has absolutely nothing to worry about. Some like the bigger bullets of the .45 and some like the slightly higher capacity/slightly lower recoil of the 9mm better and I get that, I shoot them all. However the .40 in terms of ballistics really is nothing to sneeze at and of the three, really is the most powerful.

 

[ljnowell]

If that relic known as the 10mm is still somewhat kicking when it really doesn't offer that much, the .40 has absolutely nothing to worry about. Some like the bigger bullets of the .45 and some like the slightly higher capacity/slightly lower recoil of the 9mm better and I get that, I shoot them all. However the .40 in terms of ballistics really is nothing to sneeze at and of the three, really is the most powerful.

Nope.

 

[Monac]

The figures I find on the Web are:

9mm Parabellum: 115 grains at 1,300 feet per second gives 420 foot-pounds

45 ACP: 230 grains at 900 fps gives 414 foot-pounds

40 S&W: 180 grains at 1,050 fps gives 441 foot-pounds or 165 grains at 1,150 fps gives 485 foot-pounds.

Really, one of the purposes of the 40S&W was to be more powerful than 9mm Parabellum, and many people don't realize that 9mm and 45 ACP are actually very close in kinetic energy.

Sure, if you want to use momentum, 45 ACP may come out on top - but momentum is not considered a useful measure of cartridge power any more.

 

[JO JO]

If you are saying the 9mm is equal to a 45 that follows the same as the folks that say with the new bullets of today that the 380 is on par with 9mm so by this logic you would say 380 is equal to 45. I just don't buy it you can say and believe what you want but mass × speed = force
saying that a 9mm equals a 40 or a 45 is simply untrue in the real world