Where does the .30-06 fit in long range shooting?

[FL-NC]

It had its day, and its no less capable than it was back then, but technology has offered better options. It still soldiers on just fine in venues like service rifle and CMP matches.

 

[Varminterror]

It still soldiers on just fine in venues like service rifle and CMP matches.

Where it has to have a special class, just for it, since it can’t compete with the other rifle models and cartridges.

 

[PWC]

Further up thread there was mention of WW1 use of the 06 in plunging fire....I rrad the story and as I remember there was a house with a German machine gun blocking an advance, if I remember right at about 600 yds. For what ever reason, arty wasn't available. Ten or 15 riflemen were given 100 rounds to have a "mad minute" at the house.

The machine gun was silenced, and when the Americans did finally gain the house, the gun crew was dead, the gun was inop, and the house was shot to hell. I hope I got the details correct; I know I got the outcome right.

 

[22250Rem]

Carlos Hathcock, Winchester M70 .30-06, Vietnam. /thread

.........You beat me to it. Carlos and some of his contemporaries proved what could be done with a .30-06 in the hands of expert long range marksmen.

 

[BigBore44]

it sure doesn’t make sense to buy a minivan to hustle street racers

Actually I can’t think of a more perfect vehicle to hustle street racers.

The ‘06 is capable enough. But it’s 100+ years old. For ethical hunting, it does it all. And does it quite well. For long range precision target shooting, there are “easier” options. But it’s still capable.

 

[Mn Fats]

.........You beat me to it. Carlos and some of his contemporaries proved what could be done with a .30-06 in the hands of expert long range marksmen.

Yeah and I don't even think his shot all that well. Someone please correct me if im wrong but I seem to recall an article that said his rifle shot around 2" groups @100yards.

Not the arrow but the indian.

 

[someguy2800]

I had a minivan I used for coon hunting when I was in high school, it wasn’t governed and over a 6mile stretch of flat road, it could get up over 140mph, faster top speed than most domestic “sports cars” on the street at the time, AND faster than the 120mph governed highway patrol Corvettes, let alone their normal interceptors - which made for some interesting, semi-sanctioned speeeding events among me and my buddies patrolman dads. On a rolling start, the patrol cars couldn’t catch that van. The van was fast, and remarkably stable at speed.

Of course, it needed 5-6 miles of flat, straight road to get up to speed... It was fast and fun, almost as fun as my Ducati 999 or my ‘69 Nova I rebadged like an SS Chevelle, and stuck a 383 under the hood...

That’s kinda what running a .30-06 for long range hunting is like. If you have it, it can work and be very rewarding. A Ruger M77 MkII .30-06 was my first long range hunting rifle, and I took lots of coyotes, deer, and antelope last 600yrds with it. Until I built a 32” 300RUM and a 7-300. Then I rebarreled another .30-06 to 6.5 A-square...

My van worked great for sowing wild oats as a kid, honestly just as well as my more appropriate speed machines, just like my .30-06 worked well enough for long range hunting... but it’s painfully obvious that ugh better options exist, and IF YOU ARE BUYING SOMETHING NEW TO YOU, THE .30-06 IS NOT THE PLACE TO START.

I had a 1988 bonneville and a 1986 bmw in high school that would both do 130, but yeah they took there sweat time to get there lol. I still have the bmw but now it does pretty close to that in the 1/8th mile and has about 9 times the power.

 

[someguy2800]

Actually I can’t think of a more perfect vehicle to hustle street racers.

Gonna have to be some pretty pathetic street racers

 

[Slamfire]

I've always wondered where this "old work horse" fits in the LR (long range) shooter totem pole? In both WWI & WWII it was the most powerful cartridge for main battle rifles. It's still one of the most popular hunting cartridges in North America. But where does it lie with long range hunters?

I think a better question is "how likely are long range hunters to humanely kill game at long distance?" What are the hit statistics at long range? How many animals hit were recovered? How many of the animals "hit" ran off and died a suffering death?

The 30-06 is more than capable of quickly killing within the range of an ethical hunter, who only shoots at animals inside his ability to place the shot.

 

[mustanger98]

Another thing I remember reading... in Vietnam, an American outfit armed with M-16's captured a VC arms cache and found, among other things, a Springfield 1903. While they said it was customary to report and return stuff to the outfit it was captured from, those guys kept that '03. Anytime they had a hard target or something farther out, beyond what the 5.56 was considered capable of, they brought up the .30-06 and took it out. I think these days they're calling that the Designated Marksman Rifle.

 

[mustanger98]

I think a better question is "how likely are long range hunters to humanely kill game at long distance?" What are the hit statistics at long range? How many animals hit were recovered? How many of the animals "hit" ran off and died a suffering death?

The 30-06 is more than capable of quickly killing within the range of an ethical hunter, who only shoots at animals inside his ability to place the shot.

I think I said it earlier... hunting carries ethical obligations war doesn't.

Hunting- clean kill or pass up the shot... don't waste the animal and your ammo.
War- I've been told all you really want is for the other guy to quit trying to kill you.

.30-06 will do either job, but kinda like Mn Fats just mentioned about arrows and Indians.

 

[BigBore44]

Gonna have to be some pretty pathetic street racers

Not if it’s not stock. Building an ugly car that hauls is called building a sleeper. Guys do it all the time. Got a guy in Tulsa named Fat Cat that runs an 80’s model 4 door Buick. The car looks like it couldn’t run 16’s on it’s best day. But under the hood he has a full billet roller motor. The motor makes just over 350 horse. It has a solenoid controlled drop down exhaust. And computer controlled timing adjustments. So on the juice it makes over 1000hp. He runs consistent 9.20’s on 8” slicks. Looks can be deceiving. He doesn’t have a single high performance product sticker on his car. Hence, the hustle.

Now back to the ‘06. Guys can and will talk all kinds of trash about this round. And yes, there are more target shooting specific cartridges out there. Maybe it wasn’t even the best designed round. But no one can honestly deny it’s very proven track record. Not just with hunters, but with target shooters as well. So what if modern technology has rendered her to the back of the bus. That’s simply evolution. She’s still going to the game. And will be for a very long time to come.

 

[Slamfire]

I think I said it earlier... hunting carries ethical obligations war doesn't.

When shooters treat animals as video arcade targets, they are not acting ethically. I would like to see long range hunters make the case about the ethics of long range hunting.

 

[PWC]

Bear with me a moment about street racers... When I graduated high school, my best friend got a new Rambler, with push button trans select. ( now, stop sniggering and just listen) One night we were cruzing about 2 AM and this old truck pulled up beside him at a stop light. The truck was so old, the headlights were on the front fenders and giggling all around. This old guy (remember we were teens) asks if we want to drag. Well, we knew the Rambler wasn't a sprint car, but...I mean, just look at that truck. Well we had set thru the light and waited for the next green.

Well, we're off! I'm looking back over the front seat going away at about a block... Suddenly the truck headlights jerk upwards, and here he comes; in about a block he whizzed past us and was waiting for us at the next light.

Being young and curious, and now humbled, we asked what he had under the hood. He got out and lifted one side of the 'hood' and there was an old flat head 4 cylinder engine skaking away. He said "this is my in town engine", then he went to the back and slid back a sheet metal bed cover, and there was Wright Cyclone 9, WW2 aircraft engine laying there. He said that it was his race engine. Inside the cab, there were 2 or 3 levers larger than the regular floor shift. He said he had to use the in town engine to get enough speed to turn over the Cyclone after he shifted it in.

We never saw the old guy again, but did hear of other 'suckers'. Evidently he just came out at night and enjoyed humblig suckers. Later my friend said he was glad we hadn't raced for pink slips.

Now, there is an old '06 that beat a .32.

 

[Snidely70431]

I went through basic training at Ft Polk in 1963. We carried M1's. We shot KD (Known Distance) targets on the range at 600 and 1000 yards. With a 30-06, the limitation is the shooter and the rifle, not the cartridge.

 

[Varminterror]

Gonna have to be some pretty pathetic street racers

They were - just high school kids who didn’t know anything except what looked fast. Hit a 60mph rolling start and that van could hold its own in a 2 mile top speed run against the milquetoast stock sports models the kids had. Remember, the 80’s and early 90’s sports cars weren’t what we would really consider as impressive - so the competition wasn’t so stiff if I picked my marks wisely. Even the 5.0 mustang of that era was so detuned for emissions, the top end was nearly gutless.

 

[Dibbs]

Most original cartridges have been "outclassed".

I still like the 30.06. Does what I need it to do.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

how far can you see, how far can you shoot... and don't buy into this new tactical long range BS. A good rifleman, marksman can do anything with a caliber that is in range for it.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I had an old warlock that was lightened to 3600 lbs and built a 410 stroker. I put a 5 speed in it at raced from a 30 roll I never got beat. From a stop it looked like a smoke show. I loved that truck even though it wasn't the best option. Kind of like some people do the 30-06. If you take ever advantage you can, you can outshine a lot of people.
If you want to outshine everyone, you have to take every advantage including choosing a better cartridge.

 

[d2wing]

I like my 30-06. I respect the round and am comfortable out to 400 yards hunting with it if needed and have a good rest. Now days I prefer to shoot my 7-08, but I am confident the 30-06 is enough for anything I am remotely likely to shoot. I wouldn't part with it.
Now about that street racing. I have a Z-28 with an LS motor and I am willing to take on stock mini vans and Mustangs, Chargers etc. No Dodge Demons though. I saw one run at the race track.

 

[DannyLandrum]

"Where it has to have a special class, just for it, since it can’t compete with the other rifle models and cartridges."

Ouch, ha ha.

 

[Peakbagger46]

For the casual shooter it is as good as ever, actually better with today's bullets. But from a competition standpoint it is no longer in the game. If you shoot bullets of similar BC to the same muzzle velocity, the down range trajectory and penetration on game is about the same. A BC between .600 and .700 with a MV of around 2700-2800 fps seems to be the sweet spot. You get the same results with most everything from 6mm to 338 Lapua if you can shoot bullets heavy enough, fast enough. But as the caliber goes up, the bullets get exponentially heavier to make the needed BC's. It gets harder, and harder to shoot them fast enough to be useful, plus recoil becomes apparent.

Most of the 6mm's will do that with 108-115 gr bullets, the 6.5's with 140-147 gr bullets. When we get to 30 caliber you have to go up to 210-220 gr bullets to get the same results. The 30-06 and 308 won't shoot bullets that heavy fast enough. The 300 mags will, but so will the 6mm, 6.5mm, and 7mm offerings. You get the same downrange results with the 6.5 CM as a 300 wm. And the 6.5 and 7mm offerings shoot bullets heavy enough to take most big game. So why deal with the recoil and added costs.

“Why deal with the added recoil and cost?”

My do it all meat rifle here in the Rockies is a 30-06 with 180g bonded bullets. It hits harder from 0-500y than a Creedmoor does throughout those range extremes.

A 6.5 will down elk and moose, but it’s probably on the light side.

Where were all the experts telling hunters the .260 Remington was the magic bullet for North American game in the 90s? Now it’s ballistic twin can do it all?

Long range TARGET shooting is a different matter. I would love to have the funds to change my .308 to a Creedmoor.

 

[caribou]

Theres not much need for long range shooting while hunting except for fur or animals you have looked over, or a wounded animal going away on a bad day....but it happens now and then, with Bears and Wolves being the only long distance shots Ill start out with.

To actually be serious, if you hunt Alaska, a 30-06 is what all others are compared to.
Also, you can find 30-06 almost ANYWHERE in AK, with maybe .22lr and 12 gauge also having that distinction........should you have need.....

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Carlos Hathcock, Winchester M70 .30-06, Vietnam. /thread

Case closed.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

To actually be serious, if you hunt Alaska, a 30-06 is what all others are compared to.

You beat me to it.

Up here, 30-06 is the pick up truck of calibers. It pretty much does it all, especially if you handload. (And I have a theory that Alaska has more handloaders per capita than any other state.) 110 grn pills for predator/nusiance (which is probably still a little heavy) animals all the way to 220 grn for brown bears plus everything in between. And if you don't handload, it's cheap and plentiful.