Which Candidate to Support?

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Lunie said:
One other thing I would like to point out... Of the current field of candidates, no one else poses such a significant danger to the Republican party. Why? Because no one else has such a (large, and growing) loyal base of supporters. Supporters who may well not be there for [insert name] when the time comes around. I don't think any other candidate poses such a risk to the party. I guess if you want to beat Obama, you better make sure Paul, and the votes that will follow him, are on the Republican ticket.
I think the GOP underestimates the degree to which Paul supporters are in the 'Paul or bust' mindset. No other GOP candidate has that kind of loyalty, as near as I can tell. This is not 2008, when conservatives were largely able to rally around McCain once he was the nominee.

For many of us 'Paulites', 'Paultards', or, as I prefer, patriots, the differences between Obama and Romney (including on 2A) are not great enough to justify playing into the tiresome routine of voting for the lesser of two evils that has produced an ever growing federal government and ever increasing encroachment on our liberties.

That said, I would urge everyone here, despite our differences on GOP Pres candidate, to review the 2A positions of everyone up for election in your area, including senators, congressman and state legislators, with NRA, GOA, etc. Let's send a clear message to politicians nationwide that we will not tolerate encroachment of RKBA.
 
I think the GOP underestimates the degree to which Paul supporters are in the 'Paul or bust' mindset

Fine. If Paul is the not the nominee go ahead let Obama have a second term where he does not face reelection.
Watch him dismantle RBKA line by line, expect another AWB and DC laws becoming the norm.

If all of you Ron Paul guys stay home, I expect to read alot of threads in the future with people crying about losing their rights 2-3 years from now.

^^
If BHO wins that might be my new sig :evil:
 
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^^BHO is COUNTING on there being a perception of nobility in losing, but having voted for the 'right' candidate.

I'll say it again. In political reality, there is little difference IF ANY in the long-term picture for RKBA between what Romney will be forced to do, and what Paul will actually be ABLE to do.
 
At the rate [Ron Paul] gets things done, they wouldnt just be small steps, they would be baby turtle steps.
The RKBA (and other rights) have been eroded with a series of baby steps. Just look at the Brady Campaign's strategy.

Take all the anti-gun legislation, bundle it all together. Would it have ever gotten passed if it were put into one bill? Heck no.

It's going to have to be taken back piece by piece, inch by inch. I think the progress made with concealed carry laws, Heller, and MacDonald have demonstrated that. There aren't going to be many homeruns hit in the battle to restore freedom. Unless someone overturns Slaughterhouse on the Privileges or Immunities clause, like Gura tried to do in MacDonald... that would be knocking one out of the park. But I think that would take at least one more Thomas on the bench.

If Ron Paul can move things in the right direction for the RKBA, even if it's only with small steps, it will still be more than any other president in living memory.
 
Dr. Ron Paul more than fills the bill for the Republican base, "Anyone but Obama".

But I think many of you may be forgetting that Paul is pulling in votes from people unhappy with both parties. Those votes aren't guaranteed to anyone, let alone to the Republicans. And if those votes don't go to the (R) candidate, the only people to blame are those within the GOP.
 
Ron Paul is the only GOP candidate that fully supports our 2nd amendment rights. Can he beat Romney, can he win the GOP nomination? I think he has a better chance of beating Romney than the other's do. If he wins the nomination can he beat Obama? YES, I think he can. :)
 
Personally I think gun rights is non issue amongst the republican candidates. Not one of them is stupid enough to do anything to jeopardize their base. Hell, even Obama has done anything about guns for fear of not being re-elected. We have beat the drum on that issue for the last 25 years, no candidate is stupid enough to make it an issue.

Personally, I don't really like any of the candidates. I will vote for Romney if he gets the nomination. I am not a big fan of Ron Paul but I would vote for him if he gets nominated which he won't. I would not vote for him as a third party. I voted for Ross Perot back in the day to teach the Republicans a lesson and all we ended up with was Bill Clinton for 8 frickin years.
 
Gentlemen, let's return to the discussion instead of bickering over the ability of Ron Paul to govern.
 
Romney has two faces and two tongues, Gingrich IS the "Grinch That Stole Christmas" --'nuff said, Santorum is too religious, which isn't necessarily a problem, but that crap doesn't belong in government it belongs at home, then you got Paul. The rest don't stand a chance, and Grinch probably doesn't either, but Romney is in front --just barely.

Paul is the only one I trust. Like another fellow on here said, he's been saying the SAME THING for 30 years. This'll also be the last time he runs, he's getting too old, so if you've ever been interested in him now's the chance. 2A is just ONE of the liberties he champions.

I strongly disagree with some of the stuff he says, like doing away with Medicare and SS (which ain't happening, if he really pushed it he'd get impeached) but the rest of the stuff he DOES have power over as president, I mostly agree with. We REALLY need someone in there that won't blow the wad on bailing out banks and wars, then give us more restrictions and babysitters and mandatory crap we have to by from corporations (like insurances --not that having it is bad, but being forced to IS, and they always screw you if you NEED it). And 2A? It has been slipping for a long time, and regardless of the "Fast and Furious" scam ran by the government, they still plan on going foward with a more comprehensive ban --and Obama thinks that people should not be able to own any semi auto weapons. Period.

Paul, I think, would be for 2A even if he didn't say so just based on the other stuff he says. Everytime I hear him talk, I think "Yeah!" Well, most times. Paul basically isn't a sellout, that is VERY important to me --even if I don't agree with everything, I want the truth. No other candidate has ever been for civil liberties like this guy in my lifetime, and it is time to give him a chance. Why gamble on those other greedbags? Haven't we had enough Bush's, Clintons, Nixons and the like? I mean, really?

Romney, the guy that everyone seems to love, said on two different occasions in front of a camera in the past that "I STRONGLY support a woman's right to choose!" then he said, paraphrased, "I am against ANY legislation that would ban abortion". NOW he says he is STRONGLY against it... So which Romney are you going to vote for, or are you going to get the package deal? How's that work exactly? So with a record like that, it doesn't MATTER AT ALL what he says about 2A! If he is so two faced on abortion, which is another civil liberty, how can you trust that?

To be frankly honest, and I MEAN this, if it comes down to Romney and Obama, I'll vote for Obama. For all the crap people expected from Obama, it didn't happen. But it WILL likely happen if he gets re-elected. Still, an election has so much more to do with stuff besides the 2A you cannot divorce them, so for me it like rolling dice, and I'd just rather have Obama than Romney. Now these diehard republicans want all or nothing, willing to bet the farm on this one to get the most "Reagan like conservative" --and to be honest, Reagan was a horrible president, just everyone was hopped up on cocaine and the economy was gangbusters, but you seem to forget the GCA he signed in 1986... That's in the past and those days ain't coming back folks, you live in a new era and there ain't no more Eisenhowers. And, judging JUST BY THE NUMBERS of primary voters, I can say Obama will likely murder Romney. Also, just look at Perry --the guy ISN'T Bush, but he LOOKS like him, TALKS like him, and comes from the same state, same office. The taste Bush left in our mouths was reflected in his number of voters in NH --100 something? Think about it. Republicans want another Bush, another Reagan, but the rest of the country doesn't. On election day, if you put Romney up against Obama, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

But Paul, Paul is preaching the things that Americans are most upset about --the economy and bailouts, endless wars, huge defense budgets, AND civil liberties (which I should have put in front, but it only seems to be an issue with Paul and not the others). In ten years, we've gone from a screwed up democracy to tinkering on the edge of who knows what. That "Occupy Wall Street" wasn't or isn't much different than what happened in Egypt, Libya, and now Syria, and a little more momentum and... So choose wisely, and remember Obama IS a moderate and won the last election and the taste of the public at large is towards a moderate. Perhaps that is why Romney is doing well, he was charged with being a moderate, but he may as well been graciously bestowed rather than charged considering the charge came from Gingrich and he isn't (thank God) doing so well.

Also, at what point will you all be fed up? IF Obama gets elected and bans your weapons, are REALLY going to give them up? I'll put it another way: if you were the only man holding the Bill of Rights, the real deal, would you turn THAT over? Hell no. In effect, banning of weapons is no different that banning the 2A. Plain and simple. It says "right to keep and bear arms" not hunting rifles. As I understand arms, I SHOULD be able to keep and bear whatever I like. I should be able to go to the gun shop down the street and buy automatics, suppressors, even light artillery and not be given the governemnt run around. As it stands, I CAN buy that stuff with a government run around, but only if I belong to another CLASS. Middle class cannot afford $50,000 price tags on $1000 rifles --this, this is a sign of class warfare. It is also just the beginning of a full out ban. If they keep picking at the 2A like vultures and we let them take away our parity of force, well, bye bye Constitution and I'll emigrate to Canada. I have plenty of points to get there and will be welcome. I don't want to live in a US where only the Daniel Harless' have firearms.

I'd rather die than live in a country that hands over its liberties for "royal dispensations". That just turns my stomache. You know, soldiers and politicians take the same oathe, but the difference is that when I took it, I didn't have my fingers crossed. And you know, I've already been branded a government enemy: when Napolitano got the head of Homeland Security, she said on CNN that people who are (paraphrased) "military veterans from combat arms (I'm infantry) people who like firearms (I'm NRA) and people who believe in the Bill of Rights are enemies of the state". That WAS in context as you read it, but when questioned, she refused to recant, stood by that statement, and later said it had to do with "lone wolves". Whatever. When I heard that, my heart sunk, I felt like I'd been stabbed in the back --and I have. I still haven't gotten my written apology from her yet either.

If you republican primary voters can get over the fact that Romney looks like a young Reagan and tells you to your face whatever you want to hear. I hear at churches, he IS Jesus, but at the mosque, he is all for Mohammed and religous freedom, at the abortion clinic, he's all for it, and across the street at the protest, he's for them too! And at the gun shop? You figure it out.

Please, for the sake of us all, pick Paul. I can guarantee about 10 votes for Paul, maybe more a lot of my friends and wife's friends value my opinion because I'm home a lot and watch all the debates and read through the trash, but at least 8 will go to Obama if he is pitted against Romney or another (my best buddy, he fancies himself a republican, but he's a union factory worker --they'd axe his butt in a heartbeat if they could). WA state may surprise you, folks here are FED UP with this mess and here and in Oregon, folks are VERY protective of civil liberties. Think about it. For as "liberal" as Seattle is, I can still go walk anywhere I want with my pistol on my hip, showing or not --there is a picture of an Opencarry protestor arm in arm for a picture with the DA. Obama got picked because he was the anti-Bush, supposedly, and promised us better times. But he didn't come through, however, around here he's considered a much better choice than the "perfect conservative" that the repubs want to pit agains the incumbent.

See, in urban areas, that talk of abortion bans, gay bans, real and drug war escalations, that doesn't fly like it does in backwater Kansas. So, again, choose wisely, and think, is Paul all that bad? Really? Hell, he might even get rid of the NFA if he can! It sounds like his thing.

Well, I'm done, I'll step down now. Vote Ron Paul!

PS, I voted Obama last time, but had you guys picked Paul over McCain and that crazy hooker he picked for VP, you'd likely have a republican incumbent right now. Nearly my whole family and almost all my friends voted Obama, but they would have voted Paul.
 
I'm not sure why you think that Paul is so much MORE electable than the others. And I think you are nuts if you think four more years of Obama would hurt RKBA less than four years of Romney.
A Romney presidency will be followed by more years of establishment candidates, and all that entails. A rebellion amongst conservatives in the general election will mean 4 more years of Obama, but may change the type of candidates that come out of the GOP. The Tea Party in Congress is mostly sell-outs, but the voters can force the issue and let the GOP know that we are through with establishment stooges, and that if they want back into power, they had better change their actual platform (which is quite different from the one they give lip service to - small government, balanced budgets, etc.).

Correct does not equal electable.
A recent poll showed that both Romney and Paul would tie Obama in the general. This 'electability' meme regarding Romney has been pushed by the media since the early days of the GOP primary process, but still Ron Paul polls just as well vs. Obama as Romney.

One can only imagine how Paul fares without the media relentlessly dismissing him as a crazy old man. Just yesterday, I heard Lawrence O'Donnell say that Paul doesn't count and that his second place in NH is an anomaly (in the context of a discussion of whether Huntsman did well enough to go to S.Carolina; his point was that Huntsman essentially finished 2nd because Paul doesn't count). Nice of the media to dismiss not only Paul, but all the NH voters who cast their vote for him. Similarly, I've heard Hannity saying that the only GOP candidate he couldn't back is Paul.

When the establishment media on both sides hates a candidate, the citizens might want to listen to that candidate.
 
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(partial quote): What scares me most is that if Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination, he will probably run as an independant and split the conservative vote.

I don't care if he does run as a third party candidate. I'm voting for him anyway because I've vowed to never waste my vote on a bad choice... ever again. Plus it's darned time the we break out of this stupid corrupt two-party system. A Libertarian needs to win.
 
I'm trying to determine which Republican candidate has a supportable position and history supporting my 2nd amendment rights. Here is what I have learned:

1. Mitt Romney is a "no go" wrt supporting gun owners, based on his supporting the "assault rifle ban" as governor of MA. I understand that he was presiding in a very liberal state and he was probably under significant pressure to sign the bill, but that doesn't excuse his bad judgement. He hasn't, to my knowledge, disavowed this decision, and, I believe has stated that he would sign a national ban as president, if congress put the bill on his desk, I'd love to ask him: "what about the millions of legal, law-abiding citizens across the free states that use ARs? Are you disagreeing with all of these folks, and their state legislatures, which allow ARs? Do you really know better what's best for us? Should all those owners be required to turn in their ARs for destruction?" Talk about inciting civil disobedience and potentially, unrest, I imagine his legacy would assured if he did.

2. Rick Santorum supported the anti 2nd amendment A. Spector, over the pro 2nd amendment P. Toomey, which ultimately led to the support of the Lautenberg Gun Ban, with its overreaching misdemeanor domestic violence conviction gun ban.

Are there any candidates worthy of our support, based on their proven support of 2nd amendment issues? In the end, it will be ABO, and I will vote for whomever is the Republican candidate (voting 3rd party is like voting for BHO, and would be fatal mistake for this nation), but I'd prefer not to need a clothespin when I pull the lever.

Back to the OP:

Who has a supportable position: That really depends on what you are willing to support. If you will only settle for the strongest 2A advocate, then Paul is almost unarguably your choice from the Republican field. If you are willing to accept something less, then a candidate like Huntsman might also be acceptable. There are threads that talk about each candidate...

I agree with your #1, and in my way of thinking, Romney is simply not a supportable 2A candidate.

2. As you mentioned, Santorum does not have the most extensive or respectable 2A position. Whether he is an acceptable candidate is up to your own judgment.

To me, there is only one best 2A candidate. Anything less is... less. I have the chance to vote for the strongest supporter of the RKBA that I have seen in my lifetime. IMO, he is the best and most supportable 2A candidate. It's why he is so strongly supported here, and why I think he needs to be OUR choice here on THR. :cool:

I want to stress that the important thing is for you to be active, to vote, and vote for the candidate YOU feel is best. Accept nothing less than what YOU want. Hopefully, no clothespin will be required.

It's your vote. No one else's. Make it, and make it count for what you want!
 
I think the GOP underestimates the degree to which Paul supporters are in the 'Paul or bust' mindset.

I think Paul supporters underestimate how many Republicans will never vote for Paul because of his ‘Blame America First’ beliefs about Islamic terrorism.
 
I'm not sure why you think that Paul is so much MORE electable than the others.

Because Independents can trust him to end corporate welfare and not start wars without a Congressional declaration. No other Republican can bring in as many Independents... and no other Republican will end corporate welfare.
 
Ron Paul is the only candidate that has said that all federal gun laws are unconstitutional.
 
TT said:
I think Paul supporters underestimate how many Republicans will never vote for Paul because of his ‘Blame America First’ beliefs about Islamic terrorism.
I find it amazing how much heat Paul gets for acknowledging blowback. Just as I found it amazing that Rev. Wright (Obama's reverend) got so much flak for his "chickens coming home to roost" comment.

Do the people who are outraged by such comments think they would be quite content if Russia or China started forcibly meddling in Canada or Mexico's affairs?

News at 11: Crap you do around the world has consequences.
 
In terms of practical effects on RKBA, Huntsman, Paul and Perry are probably not going to be significantly different. This is encouraging because it allows us to make choices based on other criteria rather than being held hostage by gun rights. I will refrain from posting which candidate(s) I have observed as having the best policy positions.



Fine. If Paul is the not the nominee go ahead let Obama have a second term where he does not face reelection.
Watch him dismantle RBKA line by line, expect another AWB and DC laws becoming the norm.

If all of you Ron Paul guys stay home, I expect to read alot of threads in the future with people crying about losing their rights 2-3 years from now.

^^
If BHO wins that might be my new sig :evil:
Do you have a hat or intend to purchase one in case your predictions do not come true by Jan 20, 2017?

I'm setting the date on my calendar now.
 
Personally I think gun rights is non issue amongst the republican candidates. Not one of them is stupid enough to do anything to jeopardize their base. Hell, even Obama has done anything about guns for fear of not being re-elected. We have beat the drum on that issue for the last 25 years, no candidate is stupid enough to make it an issue.

Oh, wow. That Santorum photo is a thing of beauty. It looked like he had that sweatshirt, vest and hat ironed for it
hahaha you noticed too!!

When the establishment media on both sides hates a candidate, the citizens might want to listen to that candidate.
Many are waking up and saying the same thing.


Maybe you are correct no candidate will go head to head and be such a fool as to make guns an issue:

It seems like I remember an "under the radar" comment to the "B" bunch followed by a big "Fast and Furious" scandal. Some believe F&F WAS to be used against the 2d amendment but they got caught/busted so now we have the on going scandal. The real truth may never be known.

Who knows what evil lurks in the heart and mines of the super anti's? They honestly believe the world would be better if all the weapons were turned into plow shares... People in Russia. China, Cambodia, and many others lost the weapons and their lives and the only thing the plow was used for was to turn them under forever..

Dirty tricks, innuendo, and out right lies seem to be a staple of some campaigns however it is getting harder to hide from those who wish to do some investigating on their own and try and learn what really went down on a particular subject; or at least get another opinionated opinion.

There are several videos of various candidates showing what they promised or said and then what they did once elected. Up to each of us to try, in our own way, to satisfy our individual requirements with our next commander and chief. Maybe if we take our quest for knowledge seriously then the chosen candidate will too.

I personally do not like the course our ship of state is taking therefore I am looking for a real course correction and to me Dr. Paul is the most trust worthy of the whole bunch to fight hard for a correction. He is old and will probably only last one term and I seriously doubt he could mess stuff up any worse than it appears to be already on this course.

Mit the other night looked good in his acceptance speech; seemed sincere with body language and gestures. I keep remembering the question he was asked about the Constitution and his comment was something like he was not sure so let's ask Dr. Paul! Every last one of our elected officials swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. Paul has stood before the house and has argued every bill that he felt was unconstitutional (622?? I do not know but sounds good). He has authored and argued for legislation that would repeal those he felt were unconstitutional. He has been the lone statesman on more than one occasion because he does not take money for political considerations or so I have been told. In other words he can not be bought to go against the Constitution as he understands it. Maybe all a pack of lies but for those who are willing to check he is a breath of fresh air with regards to a politician/person/man who does what he can and tries to accomplish what he says.

Maybe in a couple of more weeks the field will be narrowed down a bit more. I just hope there is not a strong third party candidate that siphons votes off !!! That we get hope and change that fits more my idea of a fair and prosperous America that holds all the Constitution in high regard and understands its' intent and purpose.

Many hate his foreign policy statements and feel he is to much an isolationist...maybe he is full of beans?? It seems to me for the last 40 years we have been at some state of war (undeclared) and it seems like we are no closer to peace...Whats the end game, take away all our rights because someone on the other side of the world wants revenge for us killing a relative, child or friend of theirs?? Maybe it is religion or a myriad of other excuses to get the masses/countries to go at each other. Looking back over my short life span do I feel safer? I do believe if we stay on this course we have set then someone is going to have the know how and determination to do something really bad to America. That does not mean we build a camp fire and join hands singing kumbaya...There are many the world over willing to die for revenge. Vigilance and Intel is paramount but it is true if you kill someones family and they are offered a way of revenge many would say "shoot me up with that deadly bio agent" and buy a one way ticket to where ever the ones who did the dirty deed lives; may they all die, etc etc ..

Right now IMO another topic is we should all be concerned with voter fraud in any election. I read an article about 900 votes in South Carolina from deceased individuals in the 2008 election. That is unsatisfactory to say the least, yet, every time someone says you have to show an ID it is discrimination against those who do not have said ID; if the showing of an ID were law the world would probably end according to a very vocal minority!.

All we can do is vote our conscience and hope it works out for the country and our collective future as a nation. I will vote no matter what and so much the better for me if it is Dr. Paul.
 
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The primary vote should ideally be the most democratic vote you can cast. In theory, you vote for who you think should be the candidate, not who you think could win. When all the votes are counted, someone wins, and if the margins are close enough that winning candidates should be able to look at the numbers and see, based on who his opponents were, what the issues are that bring people to the voting booth. Again, in theory, if Romney wins, and it's close between him and Paul, he should realize the votes he could have gotten, were his views closer to his opponents, and either adopt those views to increase his popularity, or run with that candidate. In theory. Of course a win is a win and to hell with what the other candidates were strong on.

And to make this post more relevant to RKBA...Yay guns! Three cheers for 2a!
 
Who are the biggest backers of Romney ?
Goldman Sachs ( yes the same backers of Obummer )
JP Morgan ( Also backers of Obummer )
and other Wall street banking houses .

Who are the biggest backers of Ron Paul ?
Members of the US ARMY
Members of the US AIR FORCE
Members of the US NAVY
Members of the USMC
and the little guys and gals all across the country .

'nuff said ?
 
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