Which would you rather carry?

[Good Ol' Boy]

20+1 9mm for the cold months and I'm still working on a warm months piece.

I'm trying to wait out for the CPX-3 but if it isn't out soon I may cave on the CPX-2. The 2 holds 10 and I haven't been able to find out what the 3 will carry, although I suspect it'll be about the same.

 

[mavracer]

You may be surprised to learn that, from a medical perspective, discerning between wound tracks caused by 9mm, .40, and .45 is almost impossible as they all are nearly identical.

Of course they can't tell a 32, 380 and 9mm apart either so..........

 

[Warp]

6+1 of .45 ACP or 7+1 of 9mm?

Basically, would you rather CC a single stack 9mm or .45 ACP that's not a 1911.

Neither. No reason to go smaller than a 10+1 G26 (or 9+1 G27 or whatever)

 

[Creature]

Of course they can't tell a 32, 380 and 9mm apart either so..........

The point is that modern ammunition wound cavities differences between 9mm and 45acp are virtually negligible...so why on earth would anyone willingly choose less ammo capacity when fighting for their life in a gunfight? Choosing 45acp over 9mm because of some outdated notion of superior terminal effects is at best ill-advised.

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[mavracer]

The point is that modern ammunition wound cavities differences between 9mm and 45acp are virtually negligible

No the point is ER doctors are trying to save the patient not trying to determine what round they were shot with or how big the permanent wound channel is and ultimatly can't really tell caliber from a single wound. So if you're going to use that as your deciding factor you might as well just carry a 22 since the diameter of the wound channel doesn't matter.

 

[Creature]

Gunshot wounds and ammunition selection requirement have been carefully studied by the FBI, especially after the 1986 Miami shootout, as well as by numerous qualified medical authories during autopsies. Your notion that no one is actually studying modern ammunition capabilities and their effects on the human body is far fetched and just plain wrong.

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[mavracer]

as well as by numerous qualified medical authories during autopsies.

Autopsies don't tell you how someone reacted to being shot.

Your notion that no one is actually studying modern ammunition capabilities and their effects on the human body is far fetched and just plain wrong.

Oh plenty look, only difference some look at the whole picture, not just bits and pieces that support their decision.

 

[200Apples]

Choosing 45acp over 9mm because of some outdated notion of superior terminal effects is at best ill-advised.

Rhetorical question, but a question for you, nevertheless, since you appear to be well-informed (respectfully):

If a bigger hole or heavier bullet weights are not superior in terms of terminal effect then why isn't everyone using .22 LR? .45ACP Federal 230 gr HST averaged .85" expansion with all rounds achieving the FBI standard's 12" to 18" penetration from a Kahr CW45 in this surprisingly-comprehensive and well-documented Lucky Gunner ballistics gel test.





The largest-expanding 9mm round was the Barnes 115 gr TAC-XPD +P with .70" average




Now that I compare these two images, although the .45 is physically larger and greater-expanding, I wouldn't want to be hit with either one.

 

[Creature]

Since the terminal ballistics and wound patterns between 9mm, 40 and 45 are virtually neglible (22lr never entered the discussion until you brought it up in order to somehow prove the exception), the real issue is do you want to be left standing there holding an empty 45 caliber pistol wishing you had one or two more rounds extra when a 9mm would have likely been just as effective and offered the andvantage of extra capacity?

You can keep your 45. When it comes down to it, I'm picking up the 9mm instead.

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[200Apples]

...the real issue is do you want to be left standing there holding an empty 45 caliber pistol wishing you had one or two more rounds extra when a 9mm would have likely been just as effective and offered the andvantage of extra capacity?

The real issue appears to be twofold:

1. .45ACP expanding hollow points produce larger holes

2. Having one or two extra rounds would be reassuring if you plan on missing a lot.




Now I'm just funnin' with ya. I have nothing else to offer. I even only read halfway through the original post... my bad.

 

[NormH3]

I think we can all agree, it's not necessarily the size of the hole but the placement.

 

[Harleytoo]

So, for those of you truly interested in the topic of single stack vs double, 9mm vs 45 and other mythical beasties, I think this throw-back article around revolvers really sums up the argument quite well and has practical advice about all aspects of the topic;

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/when-six-is-not-enough-myths-of-the-self-defense-revolver/

Edit: As an additional note, for me personally, while I have both single stack .45's (1911 & P220) and single stack 9mm (EMP) I am opting for double stack 9's traditionally because if I get into a situation I want to be the one with ammo left over when the smoke clears.

 

[ABTOMAT]

Some of these caliber and capacity discussions are an exercise in semantics. Like all those arguments about the "art of tactical knife fighting" when in most cases in reality it's just "stab the guy a lot."

There have been instances of people being killed by a single .22 from a block away. There have been instances of people surviving seven rounds of .45 at close range. Who's to say which category your defense situation will fall into? Do you want to carry a .44mag just in case? The .32acp was the standard European police and officer's caliber for around 50 years, yet people today act like it'll bounce off someone's forehead.

But maybe I'm wrong and that 0.15" difference in wound channel will put down an attacker who would've been impervious to 9mm.

 

[huntsman]

Within the parameters set by the OP my concern would be bullet expansion out of a short barreled gun, if expansion is not achieved in both calibers then my default choice is to go with the bigger FMJ hole. Hence .45acp

 

[stchman]

6+1 of .45 ACP or 7+1 of 9mm?

Basically, would you rather CC a single stack 9mm or .45 ACP that's not a 1911.

.45ACP of course, and why, because .45ACP is a much "manlier" caliber and all "real" calibers start with a '4'. That's right, .357 Magnum is for wimps!!!!

In all seriousness, a 9mm single stack is going to be a thinner pistol than a .45ACP single stack, thus making it easier to carry.

 

[entropy]

The .32acp was the standard European police and officer's caliber for around 50 years, yet people today act like it'll bounce off someone's forehead.


Funny you should mention that; Several years ago I had a .30-30 marlin I was test firing do the ballistic equivalant of just that: the 150 gr. bullet hit the edge of a piece of steel (there to protect a light bulb in the test firing tube) , sheared in half, and bounced back and hit me in the forehead. It didn't bounce off, but because of the irregular shape, stuck into the flesh. Didn't crack my thick skull, though!



The hospital did a quick CAT scan to besure it didn't cause bone chips internally, then stitched me up and handed me a bottle of Vicodin.

I calculated out the equivalent energy for the mass of the recovered piece, using the original ME and loss from hitting the steel, and it came out almost identical to the .32 ACP.

I would not like to be shot with a .32 ACP, that one hurt!

But I'd prefer a little more OOMPH! to my carry round, which is why I answered .45 ACP.

 

[Jimster]

.45 acp

 

[phil dirt]

I don't have a compact .45, but I do have a S&W CS9 with 124 gr. Federal HST ammo, so that's what I prefer. I also have a Combat Commander in .45, but it's too heavy and bulky to carry on my skinny self.

 

[fastbolt]

Which would you rather carry?
6+1 of .45 ACP or 7+1 of 9mm?

Basically, would you rather CC a single stack 9mm or .45 ACP that's not a 1911.

Easy question. For me, anyway.

Either one.

Sometimes it's the thinner/lighter choice (9mm), and sometimes it's the slightly larger/heavier choice (.45). The older I become, the less it becomes about caliber and/or magazine capacity.

I own a couple of .45's that use 6-rd magazines, a CS45 (subcompact) & an original 4513TSW (compact). I also own a CS9, a subcompact 9mm single stack which uses 7-rd mags, and which is slightly shorter (1/4"), lighter and thinner than the CS45.

For that matter, I own a 3913 & 3913TSW (8-rd mags), which are slightly shorter and lighter than the 4513TSW. I also own a 4040PD, which is virtually identical in size/weight to the 3913's, but is chambered in .40 S&W and uses 7-rd mags.

While I've carried all of them at one time or another, and have done a lot of training/quals with them, my choice on any given day often has to do more with comfort than caliber/capacity. Sometimes I simply feel like carrying a smaller or larger caliber, too.

Then again, this is from someone who doesn't mind carrying a 5-shot .38 Spl snub as a frequent retirement weapon, or even a LCP .380 when I can't pocket holster one of my 5-shot snubs (like with shorter/tighter jeans pockets).

FWIW, I typically prefer to carry more modern JHP designs in whichever smallish gun I may be carrying. The major American ammo makers have realized that LE and private citizens have increasingly been choosing smaller guns, for a variety of reasons, when possible (plainclothes/off-duty and CCW), and some of the more modern JHP designs seem to perform decently at some of the reduced velocities observed in shorter barrels.

Fired from my personal CS45 (3.25" barrel) into 4LD/gel several years ago. I prefer to carry the standard pressure version (bullet on left in pic), as it offers less muzzle whip & snap than the +P version (on right in pic). The velocity difference between the recovered bullets that day was 802fps & 839fps out of that short 3.25" barrel. Expansion & penetration that day were quite similar (unsurprising, to me, anyway, when the velocity difference is so small). Granted, the SXT/T-Series used that day was a previous "generation" revision of the design.

 

[Mike J]

The only single stack semi I own is a 1911. There is usually only about 1/8" difference in thickness between similar double stack & single stack pistols. My smaller carry pistols are 9mm. I don't want to deal with the recoil of a .40 or .45 in a small light gun. During colder weather when things are easier to hide I like to carry a full sized .40 or .45.

 

[Capt. Obvious]

Although it is not part of the original equation, I prefer 8+1 of 9x18. However, to go along with your question at hand, I'd take the 7+1 of 9mm.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

No the point is ER doctors are trying to save the patient not trying to determine what round they were shot with or how big the permanent wound channel is and ultimatly can't really tell caliber from a single wound. So if you're going to use that as your deciding factor you might as well just carry a 22 since the diameter of the wound channel doesn't matter.

Another point is, an autopsy is NOT a tactical analysis. In other words, the doctor can tell you want caused the death, but not how long it took before the deceased stopped attacking -- and not if he managed to kill or seriously wound his victim.

 

[BlindJustice]

My EDC is a Springfield Armory RO Compact in .45 ACP

STock mags are 6 rds. I have the Wilson COmbat
47 w/lo profile base pad and it's 7 rds capacity.
spare mag is a WC ETM 8 Rd.

Randall

 

[studenygreg]

My EDC is a Springfield Armory RO Compact in .45 ACP

STock mags are 6 rds. I have the Wilson COmbat
47 w/lo profile base pad and it's 7 rds capacity.
spare mag is a WC ETM 8 Rd.

Randall

I just got the range officer champion last week. I was considering the ro compact as well.

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[Warp]

Having one or two extra rounds would be reassuring if you plan on missing a lot.

Pop quiz: What is the average hit rate of lawful carriers and LEO's when using handguns defensively or in OIS?

Bonus question: How many rounds from a handgun firing a service cartridge might it take to stop one attacker?