Why Didn't You Inform Me Sooner?

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Treo

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I have heard a lot of people on this forum ( myself included) that they ( during a traffic stop or other minor negative encounter) would choose not to inform a police officer that they were armed, unless they were asked to step out of the vehicle.

It occurs to me that making that choice carries it's own set of difficulties and I wanted to explore them.

This scenario reflects Colorado Law.

Given situation :

You have a CHP

You have been pulled over for some minor traffic infraction.

IAW CRS 18-12-204 you are not required to inform the officer that you are armed.

There is no state database to inform the officer that you are armed, he will not know unless you inform him.

You've just been asked to step out of the car ( say 10 minutes into the stop) at that point you choose to inform the officer that you are armed.

His immediate response is " Why didn't you tell me as soon as I made contact W/ you?"

Do you tell him

A) Officer under (your state) law I'm not required to.

B) I don't wish to answer that question W/out my lawyer present.

C) Some other response and if so what?
 
A) Officer under (your state) law I'm not required to.
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I have never encountered your scenario so far and I never inform unless in one of the 10 compulsory states.But sitting behind my keyboard, this is my gut response.
Out on the road, in the dark of night, in a somewhat hostile Territory,who knows?Right now its hypothetical.I have been in all 49 Continental states and have been fortunate not have one gun related problem with any officer.
 
My reply would be something to the effect: I had my hands on the steering wheel, had my wallet on the dash and followed your instructions - exactly. At no time did you ask, but when you instructed me to exit my vehicle, I asked how you wanted to handle the fact that I am armed. What did I do wrong?

And then follow instructions.
 
D) Play stupid. "Sorry. I didn't know I was supposed to."
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Remember,in Treo's scenario ,you DO NOT have to disclose in the vehicle.
Only 10 of 48 states require it.IL and WI of course excluded with no CCW laws.
We'll put those 10 states up:AK,LA,MI,NE,NC,OH,OK,SC,TX and UT.
 
I tell if asked.
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I do too Colorado State Law says that I am to surrender my permit upon demand. I consider " Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" to be a demand.

Play stupid. "Sorry. I didn't know I was supposed to."
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O.K. what do you do when he responds ( this has happened to me) by citing a non-existant law and tells you he could arrest you?
 
Use good judgement in the situation. There is no single 'right' answer.

There is no single 'right' answer. Use your very best judgement, and be safe.

Don't fight the man. He doesn't need it and neither do you. You can settle your grievances with the supervisor tomorrow. You are not going to teach the officer a lesson tonight, no matter how hard you try. The harder you try, the more resistance you get because, in his mind, he's just trying to secure the safety of the public. You won't teach him any lessons tonight.

I'm not a law enforcement officer. I'm not related to one. I don't love one, either. I'm not defending law enforcement. I'm just being a good, smart, honest person. In our legal system, the street patrol officer is just about the bottom of the ladder. It does no good to fight him about anything, even if your own ego trip demands it because you just know you're right. You won't teach him any lessons, and you won't prevail.
 
I'd tell him to get his supervisor out here NOW...or let me go
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He's not required to do either.

If your response is in regard to:

Play stupid. "Sorry. I didn't know I was supposed to."
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And

O.K. what do you do when he responds ( this has happened to me) by citing a non-existant law and tells you he could arrest you
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Remember who lied first.

My object isn't to start a pissing contest W/ the cop ( you'll lose every time) My object is to get out of the stop W/ a minimum of hassel.
 
I know some people aren't going to like my answer, but especially in my home county, I would (and have) hand my permit over with my license and registration. Both times I have not received a ticket. Call it what you will, but avoiding an excessive speed tax is worth it to me.

I know I don't have to notify, but then again, just becuase you don't have to do something doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I choose to do volunteer this info based on which county I'm in. If I were in Denver County, my card stays in the clip on my wallet.

My advice is do whatever you want as long as it's withing the CCW laws in the jurisdiction. If your actions are not made in ignorance, and you're comfortable volunteering your status, I say its your own judgement call.

Maybe this will be the next 9mm vs .45 or AR vs AK issue caliber arguement!
 
O.K. what do you do when he responds ( this has happened to me) by citing a non-existant law and tells you he could arrest you?
__________________
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If you know it is in fact a non existant law, then here's what I would do...

1. Tell them, "Well, if you are going to arrest me, then I guess that's it. Go ahead and do so."

2. If they arrest you, do not resist.

3. Ensure that your attorney is immediately notified.

4. Wait until you are released, and the case is thrown out for improper procedure.

5. Sue the jurisdiction, the Department and the officer for:
a. False arrest
b. False imprisonment, or
c. Kidnapping
d. Intimidation under color of law

If the scenario plays out as you have mentioned, you have every right to do this.
 
Personally, I don't like the idea of trying to piss off the cop. If I didn't inform him about the gun and then suddenly do so during the course of the stop, no doubt the new information will get his attention and create a response of some sort, one such response being Treo's question as to why he wasn't informed sooner.

The notion of then making demands of the officer because he asked that question sounds like some of y'all have a pretty good sized chip on your shoulders.

I'd tell him to get his supervisor out here NOW...or let me go.
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1. Tell them, "Well, if you are going to arrest me, then I guess that's it. Go ahead and do so."
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Now just why would the officer arrest you? He isn't going to do it just because you tell him to do so, but that and all of a sudden demanding a supervisor or freedom isn't going to get you down the road any sooner and may invite additional scrutiny that you don't want to have to endure, but that might be perfectly legal.

In response to Treo's OP, first, I would inform anyway at first contact as I probably would have forgotten the law (since it isn't that way here). However, if I did remember, my response to the officer as to why not informed earlier would be something like...

"Well officer, you didn't ask me earlier and so I didn't think it was information you wanted at that time, but since you are asking me out of my vehicle, there is the possibility that you may see my gun as a get out and I did not want to cause you concern."
 
Why not tell the cop upon being stopped you are carrying? He is sometimes just as nervous as you about the stop. Many of the training films we see point out how dangerous a traffic stop is.

So now you have a cop maybe on edge already, he sees your gun perhaps before you mention it, and he may go to a condition you don't want to be the subject of. Can you really blame him if he is irritable at that point? Try and put yourself in his position.
 
Can you really blame him if he is irritable at that point? Try and put yourself in his position.
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Yes. A gun is NOT a cop's worst enemy, nor should the presence of one provoke him into a state of unprofessional conduct.

I don't tell cops I'm armed unless they ask. Otherwise it's none of their business. Hell, even if they DO ask, it's still none of their business; I just answer as a courtesy.
 
Why not tell the cop upon being stopped you are carrying? He is sometimes just as nervous as you about the stop. Many of the training films we see point out how dangerous a traffic stop is.
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I am not saying anything here in CT unless specifically asked. There is no duty to disclose here, and The culture of concealed carrying is not like some other states where it is more common.
 
You've just been asked to step out of the car ( say 10 minutes into the stop)
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OK, what stupid thing did you do to make a stop last 10 minutes then get asked out of the car?

If you've screwed up that bad what's one more?

Do you tell him
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It's that running of the mouth that is probably getting you pulled out of the car in the first place......
 
Traffic stop cops frighten me by nature.
These guys are on edge all the time and for good reason.
They are required to deal with complete idiots many times a day
and those idiots have the potential to ruin a cop's life,
or take it away, in one swift act of stupidity.
The cop is aware of that fact and must be on edge most of the time.

This depends entirely on the location and situation...
I think I'd lean toward simply informing him that I have a permit and legal weapon at first contact.
(as long as he is not a complete arse hill...if he is...wait until he asks)

I don't want Barney, who is already jumpy, to feel any threat for any reason,
or to draw when I reach for my back pocket to get the wallet,
then have his department call it a justified shoot because I was armed (licensed or not).
Not worth the risk or hassle really.

But my internet traffic stop decision does rely on the situation and the officer's level of professionalism.

Remember, these guys are just doing a job.
Some thrive on it and have huge ego issues that are projected on the public they encounter (power trip)
and some are really cool people just earning a paycheck.
 
not required to disclose in my state.

sometimes i am in a hurry, and if i get pulled over (for speeding, lol) and disclose right away, the stop will likely last longer (officer disarms you, verifies your credentials, etc) than if i don't disclose.

but that's just me.

if i'm not in a hurry, i don't have a problem with disclosing to the LEO up front.

fwiw, massad ayoob advocates (or at least he did in a class I took a few years ago) to be upfront and manage the LEO encounter by disclosing as soon as stopped. present dl and ccw document, and say "officer, i have one on, let me know what you want me to do."
 
Where I live, voluntary disclosure is not required, but my concealed carry training instructor believes it is highly desirable, and I agree.

If the officer should ask if there is anything in the car that he or she should be concerned about, a negative answer might be considered misleading.

The fact of one's concealed carry endorsement is in the database. The officer may or may not already know about it. I would rather have disclosed voluntarily than have him or her find out after returning to the patrol car and wonder why I didn't bring it up up front.

I think one should try to put oneself in the officer's position and be as cooperative and supportive as possible. "It's a jungle out there."
 
In SC I'm required to inform him/her (if I'm carrying). But if I was elsewhere and knew the law was different I'd say nothing about it.

I haven't been pulled over very many times so maybe I'm uneducated on this subject but how does one get oneself invited out of the car during a traffic stop? I've never had that happen.
 
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