Why Didn't You Inform Me Sooner?

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This Is Not The Inform/ Don't Inform Debate.

, I would (and have) hand my permit over with my license and registration.

O.K. fine, I'm glad that works for you. I'm not going to do it.

In my city the cops are pretty anti & most of them are not nice. I actually had one look me in the eye and tell me I needed a CHP to walk out my door W/ a pistol ( Colorado is an O.C. state)

Given the above, I believe it would cause more problems than it would solve for me to inform imediately.

So for all the " certified good guy" crowd I respect your right to inform please respect my right not to & please quit telling me I should.
 
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"Well officer, you didn't ask me earlier and so I didn't think it was information you wanted at that time, but since you are asking me out of my vehicle, there is the possibility that you may see my gun as a get out and I did not want to cause you concern

Best answer I've heard yet. That's the one I will use.
 
"Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" is not a demand.

Now, on to the topic:

"Why didn't you tell me as soon as I made contact W/ you?"

Do you tell him
A) Officer under (your state) law I'm not required to.
B) I don't wish to answer that question W/out my lawyer present.
C) Some other response and if so what?"

I recommend telling the officer something along the lines of, "It didn't occur to me and as I didn't think that the law requires it. Sorry about that. How would you like me to proceed?" All the while representing yourself well through your body language and tone, of course.
 
fwiw, massad ayoob advocates (or at least he did in a class I took a few years ago) to be upfront and manage the LEO encounter by disclosing as soon as stopped. present dl and ccw document, and say "officer, i have one on, let me know what you want me to do."
Not to bash Massad but remember he does wear a badge too! What would you expect from him.
 
First off you said
There is no state database to inform the officer that you are armed, he will not know unless you inform him.
I believe as of last year you are mistaken , at the same time Colorado decided to not honor non resident permits they decided to require county sheriffs to report all ccw holders to cbi for a database that was before that voluntary ( no i dont know if it comes back on a call for records at this point , but if not rest assured it is being worked in .
To your other point of informing an officer uppon contact well personally I do inform , interrupting his standard speil if needed .
Over all the response from officers ( ranging from small town through state patrol ) has been if not enthusiastic at least professional, and several have thanked me for " being up front about it " . The common response from them is along the lines of well just dont mess with it while i am here and we will get along fine . No one has drawn down on me and mine , no one has attempted to take the pistol for " officer safety " during the contact . LE like everyone else on this forum want to go home every night without fail , and thus detest surprises such as an unknown danger showing up with no notice . If you dont tell the officer you are armed and the Deity forbid it comes to notice that you have a gun well then the Officer has little choice but to treat you as the worst of the folks they have contact with not the best . I dont CCW to hide it from cops , I ccw to keep felons guessing . There is a case for " Its none of the cop's business " and it is correct , however it is the cop's business to see to the safety of the public , and him/herself . So if you dont inform well dont be supprised if you see the noisy end of the officers sidearm .
 
One traffic stop (as passenger) driver presented TDL and THCP (Tennessee Driver's License and Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit). State trooper did not bat an eye or even care. The permit law actually ratchets down the pressure if the gun is found.

TDL and THCP number are the same and the fact that you have a THCP will show up on a TDL check.

Treo: I actually had one look me in the eye and tell me I needed a CHP to walk out my door W/ a pistol in an open carry state.

Right-to-carry is one area where we often have to know the law better than most law enforcement officers. Tennessee has a "going armed statute" that bans having a gun for offense or defense in public; you can have a gun for defense in private (home or business) or for defense in public with a permit. The anti-gunners fought the THCP with the "rivers of blood in the gutters" and "stacks of corpses at the county morgue" arguments (neither happened of course).

On car carry:
Except for handguns with a carry permit, Tennessee requires a gun to be unloaded, cased and locked in the trunk, else you are guilty of "going armed."

In Virginia, an open carry state, gun cased and locked in the trunk is illegal concealed carry: the gun must be displayed in open view.

What's legal in Tennessee is illegal in Virginia; what's legal in Virginia is illegal in Tennessee; and vice versa. Gun laws are written by clueless idiots.
 
Well, I have had this experience. And really, what do I care what the officer thinks if I'm not doing anything illegal?

I was pulled over. Since I had been hunting earlier, I was dressed in all camo. (A dead give away.) I was asked, "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" "Yes"

Officer: "Where are they?"

Me: "I am carrying three .500's on me." (I was hunting with pistols and had three different options to use.)

He asked me right away to get out of the vehicle. He proceeded to handcuff me and remove the guns from me. I was put in his vehicle while he and another officer searched my truck.

He came back upset and asking me why I didn't mention the other handguns I had in various places in my truck.

My response was simple. You cut me off as I was telling you and then you never asked again. I live in Wyoming. There was nothing illegal about it. If anything, I should have made a stink about the way I was treated.

To me. Know your rights and don't worry about the rest. If they want to know something, let them ask. I wouldn't even tell them while out of the car.

I've sat in a patrol car with a sidearm. I forgot my wallet. Pulled over for speeding. No license and he asked me to come back to his car. He didn't ask or say anything about a weapon and I didn't mention it. I complied with everything he wanted and nothing more.
 
I hear a lot of people using the, "How would you like me to proceed?" in response to the officer finding out about a gun either on you or in the vehicle.

To heck with that. I'm not going to volunteer to do anything different. I'm legally carrying/transporting.

The last time I talked with an officer was only a couple weeks ago. I wasn't stopped, I stopped him to talk with him about a trucker that had ran me off the road.

When he came up to my passenger window, there was a .500 sitting on the passenger seat pointed right at him. He noticed it right away but there were no problems, he did ask about the quantity of other weapons that he saw but said nothing in particular about the one pointed at him. I wouldn't have left it pointed in that direction if I had thought he was going to come up to the passenger window which is a recent trend in traffic stops in Wyoming.
 
No offense intended, Treo, but you do seem to be obsessed with the topic. I've been carrying concealed in Texas for over 10 years now and these LE encounters simply turn out to be a non issue in real life.
 
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, I would (and have) hand my permit over with my license and registration.

O.K. fine, I'm glad that works for you. I'm not going to do it.



My advice is do whatever you want as long as it's within the CCW laws in the jurisdiction. If your actions are not made in ignorance, and you're comfortable volunteering your status, I say its your own judgment call.

Maybe you should reread my original post. I made no recommendation on what and when you should do anything other than minimally comply with local law and that any unnecessary actions taken by you should be based on personal choice rather than ignorance. It seems you're up on your local requirements, and you know what you're doing. Since you were asking what others who've been in that position would/could/can/have done that’s the answer your getting, and they are all correct (and sometimes contradictory) responses based on the individual and jurisdiction.

One tip I would advise at this point would be to be able to site statutes by number as to why you didn't. Once I was pulled over (about 6 months prior to obtaining my CCW permit) by a state trooper. I was on my way to the range and had my shotgun in the trunk. When I was stopped, and the officer asked where I was headed - the route was a main access to the airport and most speeders were late for a flight. The tone of his voice told me he was a jerk, and being a 26 year old driving a Mercedes I already got the ticket for 77 in a 65. Knowing that the worst he had me for was a simple speeding ticket, I decided to be a jerk back (verbally) and be abrupt about what I told him. Since my true destination had a higher humor factor for me that "I do not wish to discuss my personal life officer" I told him I was headed out to the gun club and he about freaked and asked if the gun was locked in the trunk and was noticeably on edge. I politely informed him according to C.R.S. 18.12 that I could carry a firearm practically in any condition/location in my car as I saw fit. Needless to say, wrong answer. He starts looking in all my windows and calls for a backup car. I then told him that if it would calm him down that yes, my Beretta was in the trunk.

After that he calmed down, but his professionalism left a lot to be desired. I understand from a few LEOs I know that professionalism in the Colorado State Patrol isn't high to begin with (apologies to any CSP members here who may be above average) and if I weren't up for game of roadside verbal cat-and-mouse I imagine I'd stonewall them as I would other non-gun-friendly jurisdictions.

Long and short, the answer is, as it was the last time "it depends." It depends on what has been done leading up to the point in the stop that the officer asked if you are armed. If you have a rifle case in the back seat and boxes of rifle and pistol ammo - I bet he'll ask about the pistol. If you're agitated like you drank a gallon of coffee - he'll be agitated. If he's a jerk - well... then it's just not going to be an easy roadside chat.

If you act like you've been there before and are calm and collected - there will be no reason for him to ask and no reason for you to tell. I don't know what CO city you're in, but in Park, Douglas, Larimer, and Arapahoe counties, the cops are generally pretty cool about armed civilians. In my experiance, CSP, JeffCo, Denver and Greenwood Village are [non high-road comment omitted].



If the cop is being a jerk, I like XDKingslayer's comment - simple and to the point, and what I would use in a non-gun-friendly jurisdiction.

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" Why didn't you tell me as soon as I made contact W/ you?"

Because I'm under no legal obligation to tell you officer.
 
If I choose to keep my mouth shut ( for the very clear reasons that I outlined earlier) I open myself up to a new set of consequences, a set I've not seen discussed here before.
 
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You've just been asked to step out of the car ( say 10 minutes into the stop) at that point you choose to inform the officer that you are armed.

That's what you said in your initial post but guns are way down your list of worries at that point.

The truth is, if you get that far into a traffic stop it's because you have been talking too much. You should never get to that point unless on the off chance you're under suspicion of drunk driving for weaving all over the road.

If you let a LE encounter go that long it's nearly always your fault anyway so when and how you inform about a gun isn't the problem really.
 
I do too Colorado State Law says that I am to surrender my permit upon demand. I consider " Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" to be a demand.
You're incorrect, I believe. "Surrender upon demand" is if they determine you're no longer worthy and write you a letter asking you to give it up... you have to. It doesn't mean the same thing as " you must inform the officer you have a permit."

But I'm not a lawyer... :D
 
If you let a LE encounter go that long it's nearly always your fault anyway so when and how you inform about a gun isn't the problem really

Where I'm at 10 minutes is about average. I figure you sit in your car about 5 minutes before the cop walks up to your car he talks to you for a minute or so then goes back to his car & writes up your ticket. I don't think 10 min is excessive.

I don't consider 6 threads in almost a year to be obsessive, I've started more Wal- Mart threads.

LE encounters simply turn out to be a non issue in real life

That hasn't been my experiance, but I live in a city that's had 2 cops shot in the last year or so. So they tend to be overzealous when it comes to an armed citizenry
 
Where I'm at 10 minutes is about average. I figure you sit in your car about 5 minutes before the cop walks up to your car he talks to you for a minute or so then goes back to his car & writes up your ticket. I don't think 10 min is excessive.

Right, but you said that after 10 minutes you get asked out of the car.

If there's ongoing conversation at 10 minutes to the point that you are just then being asked out of the car then you've done something wrong in your interaction with the LEO, probably talking.
 
There is no state database to inform the officer that you are armed, he will not know unless you inform him.

If you are driving a car registered in your name in Idaho they know you have a CCW before they step out of their car. They of course don't know if you are carrying or not, but they know you have a CCW.

If you don't say anything right away, they will ask.
 
The permittee shall carry the permit, together with valid photo identification, at all times during which the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed handgun and shall produce both documents upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Failure to produce a permit upon demand by a law enforcement officer raises a rebuttable presumption that the permittee does not have a permit.

From CRS 18-12-204


If you are driving a car registered in your name in Idaho they know you have a CCW before they step out of their car.

Great, I'm not in Idaho

Right, but you said that after 10 minutes you get asked out of the car.

I picked 10 minutes as just a number off the top of my head, 10 minutes has no special significance.

Any time I would be asked to step out of my car I would assume that things are going south.

Several years ago someone W/ the same name as me scammed a whole bunch of people in the Springs I got phone calls for months from people threatening to sue me. It's not inconceavable that CSPD could make a similar mistake
 
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Treo-

To clear a few things up. You do NOT need a CCW permit in CO to carry concealed in your vehicle. That would be scenario 1.

If you reside in CO, then you need (by the new law) a CO resident permit to carry concealed outside your vehicle. If you are pulled over and have a CO resident permit, they will know when they run your tags as most Sheriff's offices put permit holders in the 'database'. When your tags come back the screen in the patrol car flashes to let them know you are a CCW holder (just like outstanding warrants do for felons! yay!). This would be scenario 2.

You've stated you have a CCW in CO, so I can only assume that they would already know. It's still up to you to tell them up front, but I assume that they would already know or assume you were carrying (otherwise what's the point of the CCW in the first place!). Personally, I don't see the need to say anything unless they ask.
 
So, basically, the whole premise of this thread is that an officer is going to ask a specific question
His immediate response is " Why didn't you tell me as soon as I made contact W/ you?"
in response to you, at this point, doing the smart (and courteous) thing -- informing him that you're legally armed ...

And, even though your state doesn't require disclosure, you still ask
Do you tell him

A) Officer under (your state) law I'm not required to.

B) I don't wish to answer that question W/out my lawyer present.

C) Some other response and if so what?

Why is it that you cannot figure out on your own how you would respond to this situation? Gee, maybe just simple courtesy, coupled with a smattering of actual honesty (even if you don't believe it's required) would work wonders.

You predicate every single scenario that you can dream up on the assumption that the LEO you are dealing with is going to give you a hard time. Frankly, if this is your experience, one has to wonder about the attitude you project in your seemingly frequent encounters with your local gendarmerie.
 
If you reside in CO, then you need (by the new law) a CO resident permit to carry concealed outside your vehicle.

hkORION,just to make sure I'm clear on this a NC resident with a NC carry permit would still be able to carry outside the vehicle in CO even with the new law,correct?
The way I read it you have be an actual resident of whatever states permit you're carrying to be legal in CO.Of course that state must be recognized by CO.
A resident of Illinois with a Florida non-resident permit,for example, can no longer carry concealed in CO.
I believe about 7 states now have this rule.
 
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