Why everybody should be a Libertarian

[twoblink]

This is a direct quote from the plank of the Libertarian Party. Regarding the 2nd and RKBA.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms

The Bill of Rights recognizes that an armed citizenry is essential to a free society. We affirm the right to keep and bear arms and oppose all laws at any level of government restricting, regulating, or requiring the ownership, manufacture, transfer, or sale of firearms or ammunition. We oppose all laws requiring registration of firearms or ammunition. We also oppose any government efforts to ban or restrict the use of tear gas, "mace," or other self-protection devices. We further oppose all attempts to ban weapons or ammunition on the grounds that they are risky or unsafe.

We support repeal of all gun control laws and we demand the immediate abolition of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

We favor the repeal of laws banning the concealment of weapons or prohibiting pocket weapons. We also oppose the banning of inexpensive handguns ("Saturday night specials"), and semi-automatic or so-called assault weapons and their magazines or feeding devices.

 

[SAG0282]

Ya gotta love that interpretation.

 

[Balog]

Too bad they're for open borders.

 

[Scottmkiv]

Open borders wouldn't be a problem at all if it weren't for the welfare state which Libertarians also oppose. I don't think anyone really has a problem with people coming here looking for work.

 

[Mizzoutiger]

Glad to say, I am a libertarian.

 

[Gordon Fink]

Too bad they're for open borders.

And the Republicans and Democrats are doing such a good job of keeping the borders closed.

~G. Fink :banghead:

Why do I even bother?

 

[DigitalWarrior]

If we are ever left arguing over the finer points of libertarian philosophy will will be in a much better place than we are in now.

If the Gov't starts acting like it has no business in my business, then we can start arguing over those things.

 

[Mulliga]

I'm a Libertarian, and I don't support the crazy open borders thing. I mean, it's just not practical to have totally open borders - the refugees from every oppressed or poor part of the world - Haiti, Cuba, Guatemala to name a few - would flood us. The Losertarians need to shapen up, all right.

 

[twoblink]

To quote Larry Elder:

"But for the Open Border Policy, I'd be a card carrying Libertarian."

I've not renewed and probably won't. BUT... I am a libertarian (small L).

And I think as far as the 2nd and RKBA goes..

That's about as straight shooting as I'd like.

and I have to agree with the others..

Open Borders vs now... the difference would be???

 

[Standing Wolf]

I'm a Libertarian except for the open borders idiocy. If the election were held tomorrow, I doubt I'd vote for any Republicans.

 

[Docwithglock]

Without the welfare state making immigrating here inviting to those who wish to be a leach on Americans, open borders would not be horrible. I threat many patients who come to this country just to get on government aid. Many don't try to learn the language (I try to learn theirs), or contibute in any way to our great country (event though the same could be said about Americans already here). However, this country was made great because people from all over the world immigrated here. My grandparents fled from persecution in other countries, with nothing, to try and make the American Dream a reality.
Many people think that we already have enough poor foreigners who live better here on welfare, than they do working themselves to death in their own countries.
Opening our borders can help make America the true land of opportunity it once was. BUT, not if people immigrating here can tap into our welfare state. Let's face it, being able to come to America and get free money and healthcare is something no sane person would turn down if they were from a country less fortunate. Why should our own citizens work towards the American Dream if they get food stamps and checks every month? Don't get me wrong, I know there are many people out there who can't provide for themselves, and I am not saying we should do nothing. I am saying the government should not perpetuate a culture where happiness (money) is a right, and the people who work very hard must provide it for those who learn how to work the system. Without the wealfare state: immigrants would be one of the hardest working and productive groups in this country, the crimminals who do nothing to work for their share of the American Dream would actually have to work, and we would not have to fear being invaded by immigrants or fear being sucked dry by the dregs of our society. We cannot have open borders with the welfare state.
One thing people often forget about America is "We have the right to PURSUE happiness".
I'm not heartless. The welfare state needs to be replaced by genuine humanity. People need to help those who can't help themselves. In a free society, free citizens should have the right to choose who we help and if we help. The money our government FORCES us to give for them to do with as the beurocrats see fit, could be much more effectively spent by private citizens and groups.

 

[Cactus]

Even if we somehow managed to totally eliminate welfare, how would you prevent the millions of new immigrants that flood America from simply voting in the same Socialists that ran the country's they left and re-instituting a welfare state?

 

[Docwithglock]

Cactus:"Even if we somehow managed to totally eliminate welfare, how would you prevent the millions of new immigrants that flood America from simply voting in the same Socialists that ran the country's they left and re-instituting a welfare state?"

If the flood of new immigrants were all Libertarian we wouldn't have to worry about that.
Seriously, we have not always needed a wave of new immigrants to elect Socialists. Unfortunately many Liberty fearing Americans have done so in the past already... can you say Clinton ?!

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

If libertariam policies were implemented, the economy would grow so much, so fast, that immigration would not even be an issue. The death of welfare would curtail the influx. The work ethic necessary to survive here would then scare away the free loaders.

And we would all have guns whenever, wherever we wanted.

And there would NOT be large tracts of government land declared "wilderness" reducing the price of land and housing. No government interference in development. And there would be property rights.

To bastardize Marx:
From each according to his ability, to each according to his effort.

 

[longrifleman]

I'm also a small l libertarian who doesn't agree with the big L party on the immigration plank. It's just dumb to think that a welfare state like we have now can survive with open borders. The sad thing is we are going to try this with the Repoblicrats in power. They are doing the Libertarian agenda and aren't smart enough to know it!

To bad we couldn't sneak more in under the radar.

 

[MicroBalrog]

Even if we somehow managed to totally eliminate welfare, how would you prevent the millions of poor from starving to death?

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

It is easy. You work or you starve. If you do not have work, then apply for charity given by folks freely. YOu either believe that humans are good and you support a free economy, or you believe that humans are basically bad and support a "controlled" economy.

 

[MicroBalrog]

Or you realize neither is 100% true...

 

[yzguy]

Even if we somehow managed to totally eliminate welfare, how would you prevent the millions of poor from starving to death?

I would rather they have to do SOMETHING for the money.... I don't get free money....

I may sound kinda cold, but if you don't work, and your poor, then why SHOULD the money I make (my tax $$) go to you? Sure there are exceptions, but not as many as get the $$ now.

 

[MicroBalrog]

Sure there are exceptions

Bingo!

 

[cordex]

Even if we somehow managed to totally eliminate welfare, how would you prevent the millions of poor from starving to death?

With monies not taken at gunpoint. Primarily private charities funded by people who believe it is their duty to take care of others.

Heck, I'd even support the idea of replacing our welfare sytem with a publically run system that people can sign up to deliver a portion of their paycheck into if they choose to. If people want to do that, then let's facilitate it, right?

I'd wager that the number of people who are seriously in need of welfare for survival because they are physically incapable of work is pretty small and could be handled by private charities. People who starve because they don't want to work ... well, that's their choice and it isn't my job to change their mind.

 

[Gordon Fink]

Even if we somehow managed to totally eliminate welfare, how would you prevent the millions of poor from starving to death?

We wouldn’t.

~G. Fink

Seriously, though, some must be allowed to fail.

 

[Treylis]

I seriously doubt that 'millions' of poor people would starve if the current welfare state was eliminated.

And, frankly, I don't care if they do starve, because if they can't figure out how to get a job or can't figure out how to get private charity money, they're just not cut out for living in any society, past or future. The grand majority of the 'homeless' and 'poor' around here are massively obese, anyways.

Nobody should have the right to steal a huge chunk of my paycheck at gunpoint as income taxes and then just throw it away at bums who produce nothing. It's intolerable that I'm effectively a slave for these people, even a part-time slave.

 

[spartacus2002]

The myth of millions starving yearly before welfare is just that: a myth.

Currently there is an entire welfare subculture that straddles the entire spectrum of age, gender, and race, and it needs to end. We can breed it out (metaphorically speaking) by ending govt-funded welfare and having a few generations learn that There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

Let private charities help the poor and (a) they WILL get funds from charitably-minded citizens (remember the outpouring after 9/11) and (b) we end the welfare-immigrant influx and (c) we grow generations of self-sufficient Americans, regardless of race, ethnic background, or national origin.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]