Why is the 45-70 so popular?

[Jim Watson]

Henry single shot weighs less than 7 lbs. A big Ouch in a heavy caliber.
I had a Ruger No 1 .45-70 that was pretty but not much fun to shoot.
Even my 11 lb Browning BPCR is a .40-65 because 400 grains is more fun than 500. And my 10 lb Winchester is a .38-55 because 335 grains is just a hoot.

 

[CraigC]

if you want to pay a lot for a single shot which will hammer your shoulder, be my guest lol. a repro sharps or similar rifle will weigh more and allow you to be comfortable shooting it

Not everybody wants their .45-70 to weigh 13lbs.

IMHO, the .45-70 at standard pressures is a pleasant shooter. If you don't want heavy recoil, don't push it to nip at the heels of the .458WM or choose something smaller.

 

[BigBore44]

I'm actually eyeing the Marlin 1895 with the 26" barrel and full length mag.

Something about the idea of a 9-shot .45-70 makes me smile.

While the idea makes me smile as well, I've never need more than my standard 1895 can carry. And never needed more than one shot from it to harvest the game I was pursuing. Although I have had to chamber another round to take another animal a few seconds later.

 

[ilmonster]

What RPRNY said above is correct regarding trajectory. On my flat shooting .223 target rifle, going from 100 yds to 200 or 300 yds I need to dial the elevation turret of the scope to get there. With my 45-70, I also need to dial, so aside from a few more turns, there's no more work involved. And with either rifle, I have had to enter the ballistic variables (B.C., velocity, zero range, temp., etc.) into a ballistics program to get my initial DOPE card.

 

[Newtosavage]

45-70's are popular because men actually are hopeless romantics, given the right toys.

 

[someguy2800]

What RPRNY said above is correct regarding trajectory. On my flat shooting .223 target rifle, going from 100 yds to 200 or 300 yds I need to dial the elevation turret of the scope to get there. With my 45-70, I also need to dial, so aside from a few more turns, there's no more work involved. And with either rifle, I have had to enter the ballistic variables (B.C., velocity, zero range, temp., etc.) into a ballistics program to get my initial DOPE card.

I don't like to play with hypothetical situations but what do you do when that nice 22 inch spread mule deer goes across the clearing kittycorner somewhere between 200-300 yards. He's at a jog with his head up in the air 50 yards behind the doe he wants and ain't paying any mind to you and he'll be safe in the willows in less than 10 seconds. Thats pretty much the situation that has played out for me on every buck I've ever shot except I hunt in thick woods and swamps so all my shooting is from 20-150 yards so that will work fine for me.

 

[RPRNY]

I don't like to play with hypothetical situations but what do you do when that nice 22 inch spread mule deer goes across the clearing kittycorner somewhere between 200-300 yards. He's at a jog with his head up in the air 50 yards behind the doe he wants and ain't paying any mind to you and he'll be safe in the willows in less than 10 seconds. Thats pretty much the situation that has played out for me on every buck I've ever shot except I hunt in thick woods and swamps so all my shooting is from 20-150 yards so that will work fine for me.

That's when you use a 30-06 ;-)

But more to your point, the 45-70 wouldn't be my choice if I were elk hunting where 250 odd yard shots were likely. Hunting them in timber? Absolutely. And I'm sure there are better shooters than I who in getting into position would lase ranges and have a good idea of hold for your hypothetical above. I'm just not good enough to do so with confidence.

The great joy of our age is that there is so much wealth in our society that not only are there a vast array of firearms made and available, but that most of us can afford more than one. I don't think the 45-70 remains so popular because it is widely viewed as the one gun to have when you can only have one...

 

[midland man]

I don't like to play with hypothetical situations but what do you do when that nice 22 inch spread mule deer goes across the clearing kittycorner somewhere between 200-300 yards. He's at a jog with his head up in the air 50 yards behind the doe he wants and ain't paying any mind to you and he'll be safe in the willows in less than 10 seconds. Thats pretty much the situation that has played out for me on every buck I've ever shot except I hunt in thick woods and swamps so all my shooting is from 20-150 yards so that will work fine for me.

or a 243 will do it as well if you can hit the neck up with 100gr bullets! or a 45-70 can with a front shoulder hit with a 405gr lead bullet, or maybe change your position a tad to get a better shot!

 

[.308 Norma]

I don't think the 45-70 remains so popular because it is widely viewed as the one gun to have when you can only have one...

Me neither. IMO, the "one gun" thing or at least the "one rifle" thing, would be more like the 30-06 you mentioned.

 

[BigBore44]

That's when you use a 30-06 ;-)

....Or a 308. And since it's a short action, will give you a faster follow up.

 

[someguy2800]

If I had to go the rest of my life with one rifle it would be my Tikka T3 25-06. Its not my favorite caliber but it does its thing and the gun is like an old friend to me. But this is America and we can have as many as we want! Here is the deer hunting lineup picked for this year, hoping to get one with each! The 444 handi I have been working on all spring and I named it Stumpy

 

[jim in Anchorage]

....Or a 308. And since it's a short action, will give you a faster follow up.

Thing is, you don't need the follow up with the 06...

 

[BigBore44]

Thing is, you don't need the follow up with the 06...

Can't argue with that....

But back on track with the 45-70....
One thing about Americans, especially most 2A supporters, we love history. And when you think about our history, especially our firearms history, there are some things that stand out. Black Powder, the 45 Colt, 45-70, 45 ACP, 30-06, 308, .223. All of those, with maybe the exception of the 45 Colt (not sure), have a rich history with our military. There are many cartridges out there that do a job better than any of those. But we don't seem to care. Nor should we. They do the job assigned to them and do it well. And our gun manufacturers know we love our old military rounds. So they keep coming out with new guns in those calibers.

Another thing many people love is lever action rifles. And the 45-70 is chambered in many of those as well. Most people can't spend a bunch of money to pay for 458 WinMag ammo. But the 45-70.....yep. Is it the same round on an even playing field? No. But it's the biggest round we can buy for our beloved leverguns (that I'm aware of). It's our "poor mans" Africa cartridge.

 

[Llama Bob]

Thing is, you don't need the follow up with the 06...

There's essentially no terminal ballistics difference between a .30-06 and a .308. For a given application either both are good, or both are bad.

 

[Merle1]

There's essentially no terminal ballistics difference between a .30-06 and a .308. For a given application either both are good, or both are bad.

That's only true up to 180 g bullets - after that the 30-06 walks away with the crown......

 

[Llama Bob]

That's only true up to 180 g bullets - after that the 30-06 walks away with the crown......

Nope - for example, the top load for the 200gr A Frame (semi-spitzer, not flat point) which I happen to have handy is only 100 ft/s different between them. They are, for essentially all purposes, the same. Either both are good, or both are bad.

 

[Merle1]

Nope - for example, the top load for the 200gr A Frame (semi-spitzer, not flat point) which I happen to have handy is only 100 ft/s different between them. They are, for essentially all purposes, the same. Either both are good, or both are bad.

OK then, take it up another notch.
Also, take a look at more 200s and don't cherry pick one bullet.

 

[d2wing]

It isn't a question of reason at all. It is a romantic notion. Like city boys wearing beards and logger boots. It is a connection with a lost and imaginary past. For instance no Factory Buffalo guns were ever ordered in 45-70 and the buffalo were nearly gone before it became popular but it is widely called a Buffalo gun. Somehow a gun that hurts the shooter make it more macho maybe. People like old cars, old guns and old machines. Too bad they are not so nearly affectionate or respectful for us old timers that used them

 

[RPRNY]

It isn't a question of reason at all. It is a romantic notion. Like city boys wearing beards and logger boots. It is a connection with a lost and imaginary past. For instance no Factory Buffalo guns were ever ordered in 45-70 and the buffalo were nearly gone before it became popular but it is widely called a Buffalo gun. Somehow a gun that hurts the shooter make it more macho maybe. People like old cars, old guns and old machines. Too bad they are not so nearly affectionate or respectful for us old timers that used them

The 45-70 killed plenty of Buffalo following its introduction in 1873, when there were plenty of bison left. I don't know where the idea to the contrary comes from.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/history...cs-transcripts-and-maps/buffalo-extermination

The comparison to Lumbersexuals in Brooklyn was very painful

 

[Llama Bob]

OK then, take it up another notch.
Also, take a look at more 200s and don't cherry pick one bullet.

I'm just looking at bullets I happen to have around. I pulled the data for the Woodleigh 200gr weldcore PP out of quick load, and it says 160 ft/s difference,. Luckily, Woodleigh lists a velocity window for it, so we know how that impacts us. At sealevel, the .30-06 will stay in the velocity window out to 440 yards. The .308 is good for "only" 360 yards. So again, from a terminal perspective either both are good or both are bad. It's like a pattern or something

 

[Llama Bob]

Just to add one more data point, QL says the difference for the 220gr weldcore is only 90 ft/s. At this point we can say case closed - up to bullets so heavy basically no one ever uses them, there is no meaningful terminal performance difference between .308 and .30-06. None.

 

[Llama Bob]

The 45-70 killed plenty of Buffalo following its introduction in 1873, when there were plenty of bison left. I don't know where the idea to the contrary comes from.

People with a poor grasp of American history, apparently. It was all about the railroad, and that postdated the .45-70 by many years.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Iowa just joined a few other Midwest states in allowing "pistol caliber" rifles for deer hunting during the traditionally shotgun only seasons. 45-70 is a permitted cartridge in at least some of these states, and the most potent choice in Iowa. There will be a bunch of them for this years deer season. Forgive me if this has been mentioned, I'm to tired to read every post.

 

[salt&battery]

I'm just looking at bullets I happen to have around. I pulled the data for the Woodleigh 200gr weldcore PP out of quick load, and it says 160 ft/s difference,. Luckily, Woodleigh lists a velocity window for it, so we know how that impacts us. At sealevel, the .30-06 will stay in the velocity window out to 440 yards. The .308 is good for "only" 360 yards. So again, from a terminal perspective either both are good or both are bad. It's like a pattern or something

the 30-06 in most manuals is loaded pressure wise way below the 308. I have an older nosler book that in 30-06 with Rel 22 the 200 grain goes 2700 FPS the 220 at 2600. the 308 in the same book has the 200 going 2500 and has no listing for the 220. I love both rounds but the 308 is not a 30-06

 

[Don McDowell]

It isn't a question of reason at all. It is a romantic notion. Like city boys wearing beards and logger boots. It is a connection with a lost and imaginary past. For instance no Factory Buffalo guns were ever ordered in 45-70 and the buffalo were nearly gone before it became popular but it is widely called a Buffalo gun.

Not sure where the 45-70 not being a buffalo gun came from, but obviously with it being the first most popular chambering in Sharps rifles followed very closely by the 44-77, and given the number of 45-70's that were shipped to Cooper, Lower, Gove, and Freund and others, the cartridge did put some buffalo on the ground. The real myth of the buffalo guns is the "Big 50" Sharps shipped less than 800 69 and 74 models chambered in 50 anything.