Why Only Semi's for Carry??

[Kleanbore]

I guess I'm just not in the "pray and spray" crowd.

Nor am I.

Rapid controlled fire does not imply "spray".

The realities of an attacker moving at 180 inches per second, and the need to strike one or more internal body parts that cannot be seen, result in the need to fire rapidly, and with control.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Neat cliche, but what I described is all that is needed.

I’ll take Wyatt & Massad Ayoobs words… as Knowledge or better yet Wisdom- I’m sure They know what they are talking about , Thank you.

 

[Kleanbore]

I’ll take Wyatt & Massad Ayoobs words… as Knowledge or better yet Wisdom- I’m sure They know what they are talking about , Thank you.

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I relegated my 642 to back-up carry after one SD training course. There was no way for me to go through the drills successfully with the long heavy trigger and the recoil. I could not achieve the needed balance of speed and precision.

Could I have prevailed with it in a life or death situation? Maybe--but the perps often travel in pairs, and that would have been very iffy.

I have studied under Mas. Tom Givens, who was the host, came in to discuss his "Lessons from the Street" DVD. In most of the incidents, revolver capacity would have sufficed. But Tom cautioned against five shot snubs. "Carry a real gun", he said.

Both men were carrying double-stack semi autos.

When I took a course with the I.C.E. PDN folks, we limbered up with some target shooting before going to the SD drills. The target distance was about 12 ft.

I was happy with my shooting--groups of about 8", shooting at roughly one round per second or maybe a little more rapidly--until the instructor came up, looked at my target, and said "you are shooting too slowly".

I soon learned what he meant.

Forget Wyatt and avail yourself of some realistic SD training.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

No need to teach me on what works for You- I’ve taken Courses, Liaison with Swat . Perhaps others may want to be informed of accolades -

Yet I’ve Stated information from Some great Men who are regarded highly.

If a Semi is Your preference, certainly understandable-

Yet comprehend -That the Revolver has Successfully Been doing the Job for a much much longer time. jams are minimal compared to Semi autos.

Some Folks can just Shoot better that others and don’t need the extra rounds

 

[trackskippy]

Some Folks can just Shoot better that others and don’t need the extra rounds

If you say so. And shoot how? What are you basing things on? Realistic courses of fire shot with a 5 round snubby, or something else?

"Most" folks think they are a lot better than they really are, and will likely benefit from the extra rounds. Better to come up still ready to go at the end, than empty half, three-quarters the way through.

Just out of curiosity, when it turns out to be your turn, exactly how many rounds will it take to solve the problem you happen to get?

All I can say is, I hope we are all as well prepared and as good as we think, and all have enough onboard ammo to deal with it, when the time comes.

Thats why some continue to shoot (beyond basic target shooting) at least a couple of times a month, or more, and dont stop working at least at maintaining things, and better yet, continuing to improve. This is a lifestyle, and a perishable thing, and there is no end to it.

 

[John Joseph]

Considering that anything after the first round fired and you're living on borrowed time anyway.

 

[Miguel Loco]

Forget Wyatt and avail yourself of some realistic SD training.

LOL..... been there....more than once. First class...out of 10 people, there were 3 FTF's with their semi-auto's on the very first day. When that happens...you're dead. My retired FBI buddies all had to carry their issued weapons.....but always had a revolver on them as well...sometimes 2.

So it's just a personal choice. I'm happy with mine. It doesn't mean I'm stupid or inexperienced. It's just a different mind set than yours..... You're comfortable with yours....I'm comfortable with mine.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Training for a situation, Taking courses, Teaching courses, Working with Leo’s, Dropping Multiple shells every week and Involvement of shooting sports Can Provide insight.
Yet history Prevails and I for one will seek out history’s lessons. The FBI States 3 yards-3 Shots-3 seconds as The common Fire Fightr rom what history teaches . Could the uncommon happen? Of course it could- Yet that dosnt require that I carry 3 mags with higher cap extensions , Three Semi autos and a Vest on 24-7 even while taking a shower. I have no delusions about Nokatomi Plaza Defense or Saving the day.
Concealed Carry with a revolver and a competent Shooter is a Formidable weapon. I prefer my 7 Shot 686. I’m able to Reload fairly quick as if found out in training. 14 rounds of 357… That’s on par with the Famed 7 rd 1911, Is that inefficient becouse it’s not 20+ rounds of 9mm.
I’m not a Leo- I’m a civilian and am required to not act like a Leo. My 610 s&w can lay down some serious Fire power with fast reloading. Yet my model 60 357 3” is sufficient- regardless if another individual thinks otherwise.

Ps - The Glock I have with me is fine- Yet I find no Need for it compared to my 686 7 shot. It’s simply cheaper to replace.

 

[CDW4ME]

My philosophy:
Whatever handgun is carried in an area of greater anticipated threat (bad area) - strive to carry that everywhere. (Yes, even walking the dog in a "good area")

I don't do good vs bad area carry; I carry based on what handgun I would prefer to defend myself with, regardless of location, wherever.
For example, Would a 5 shot snub be preferred to defend myself? No it would not.
Would a Glock 19 or 22 be preferred to defend myself? Yes, that would be a preferred handgun.
What criteria makes a handgun preferred? Easy to shoot quick & accurate, speed of follow up shots, capacity and concealability are all factors.

I'm safe to assume that for some the main criteria they use to select a gun for carry is pocketability and/or convenience.
They won't say as much, what typically gets posted is statistics, averages and "good area".

While I do agree with you... would you rather have the Smith J frame or Ruger LCP in your pocket or waistband, or “nothing” because you got tired of lugging around a duty sized handgun ?

I've had concealed carry for 25+ years but until 3 years ago was restricted by work attire many days; pocket 380 was best I could do, not best I was willing to do.
I was able to take early retirement over 3 years ago and I've not carried smaller than a Glock 19/23 size pistol since.
When I lived in KY I was on 20 acres out in the county, closest neighbor 200 yards away, I'd still carry the Glock 19/23 walking the dog.

Months ago, moved to FL I carried a Glock 19/23 packing boxes, loading uhaul, unloading.
Typical day is walk dogs 1+ mile, errands, shopping, maybe a bicycle ride and that is carrying a Glock 19/23 size pistol, or currently a Glock 22, all day.
I like concealed carry and don't see myself getting tired of carrying at least a Glock 19/23 size pistol; I waited years to be able to carry a decent gun everyday.

Somebody(s) take action against me that merits use of lethal force, my goal is to stop that action ASAP hopefully before I incur serious or fatal injury.
I do not think a 38 snub or 380 with a good HP has the same ASAP potential as 180 gr. HST from a Glock 22.

I understand convenience and "better than nothing" but that is not a criteria I have to use.
You likely agree that a 40 or 45 HST (Glock 30SF, 1911) has better ASAP potential than a 38 special or 380. (Please God, don't anybody say "caliber war")
Yes, a 380/38snub is "better than nothing" but I'm not content to settle for the minimum and don't.

 

[bdickens]

The only individual I know who actually carries a SAA *does*. Force on Force training, etc.

And you ain't him either.

Fast is Fine,But Accuracy is final - Wyatt Earp

Wyatt Earp has been in the grave for 92 years. The rest of the world has moved on since then. Somehow I suspect that if he was still with us he would have kept up.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

So his Speed and accuracy statement is irrelevant?

Um… I think not.

 

[Old Dog]

Ah, the legend of Wyatt Earp lives on, still... Yet when Marshal Earp was on the job, the single-action revolver was the predominant handgun, pretty much the only game in town. Concur with bdickens, if he was still with us, I'm pretty sure he'd be packing a full-sized pistol such as the Glock 17 or a SIG P-226 (with spare 21 or 20 rounds mags on his belt).

I can't believe how often we indulge in these threads. And yet, we cover the same ground time after time. We know we have a few members who swear by their 5-shot J-frames as primary carry arms. We know that we have the dedicated Glock 19 guys.

As a older dude with bad, bad arthritis in my dominant hand, I will stick with a semi-auto in 9mm. The slides on my carry pistols are still substantially easier to rack if clearing a malfunction (though I've never had a malfunction with any of my usual carry pistols, all SIGs or Glocks) that firing repeated shots through any .357 revolver or one of my much loved 1911s in .45 ACP.

Have we convinced the OP that he's good to go with primarily carrying a six-shot revolver with a 2.5" or 3" barrel? (He did note price was a consideration, otherwise I would've recommended the new Colt Cobra). Who the heck knows, since he hasn't checked back into this thread after four days and five pages.... Perhaps he just opens the thread every night and chomps some popcorn knowing that he's gotten everyone spooled up into the same arguments (again).

 

[GEM]

I think if you offered Wyatt Earp a Glock 19, he would toss the revolvers in the creek.

We are cycling through the same old : it works for me; the average gun fight; look at my group on the square range; I haven't taken the time to master a gun, etc.

About someone's full size 1911 ACP when it is hot - well, duh. I lived for 24 years in the Texas inferno and knew many, many LTC folks and professionals. It takes no effort to conceal a G26 or G19 (or similar sized semis) in the heat. A floppy shirt over an AWIB, or a tee shirt, floppy cover shirt over an IWB or OWB on your hip was comfortable.

So if you want to deliberately choose a rather large semi as an argument, that is as silly as arguing for a SW 686 as being too large.

I found an SW Model 19 as being large enough to be inconvenient as compared to a G26 which gave me 5 extra rounds on board and a much easier reload.

I remember seeing Mas at dinner with his crew of instructors, all with semis. Imagine that.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Wyatt- “Your an Oak”

My point was in reference to accuracy gentleman. You can have all the capacity you want (Semi auto) Shoot fast and all that. Yet 1or 2 well placed Accurate shots is key. 5 or 6 well placed shots of a 44spl or 357 will certainly incapacitate an attacker or attackers.
Not spooled up- Just stating justification for a revolver in today’s high tech Semi auto world. They work, Plain and simple. Carry on- Jamming and Clearing. I’ll stick with my 7 shot 686 and I’m sure it is plenty.

 

[Old Dog]

Wyatt- “Your an Oak”

My point was in reference to accuracy gentleman. You can have all the capacity you want (Semi auto) Shoot fast and all that. Yet 1or 2 well placed Accurate shots is key. 5 or 6 well placed shots of a 44spl or 357 will certainly incapacitate an attacker or attackers.
Not spooled up- Just stating justification for a revolver in today’s high tech Semi auto world. They work, Plain and simple. Carry on- Jamming and Clearing. I’ll stick with my 7 shot 686 and I’m sure it is plenty.

Well now, the OP didn't speak to, or ask any questions, about accuracy. He talked about an "easy to carry" handgun that would be "easy to operate" with arthritis (presumably, he is confident in his accuracy with handguns and does engage in some sort of practice routine).

The arguments for accuracy have all been made, duly considered, and accepted by all of us here. As far as semi-autos and "Jamming and Clearing," well, we should not have to devolve further into a debate on the inherent unreliability of auto-loaders (gospel of the die-hard revolver adherents). Some of us understand autos, have made our choices and shall live with them.

As always, can't we all just get along?

 

[Lnf Crzr]

I have both- carry both. Was advocating a revolver for OP
Simply stated accuracy was main ingredient as a SD sidearm.

Old Dog- Some real beautiful handguns you have… including the bottom feeder

 

[bdickens]

You can have all the capacity you want (Semi auto) Shoot fast and all that. Yet 1or 2 well placed Accurate shots is key. 5 or 6 well placed shots of a 44spl or 357 will certainly incapacitate an attacker or attackers

You go on thinking that if you want. There's plenty of video evidence with the real answer: maybe. Maybe not.

Not spooled up- Just stating justification for a revolver in today’s high tech Semi auto world. They work, Plain and simple

You go on believing that if you want. A short journey through the revolver subforum should put that to rest.

Carry on- Jamming and Clearing.

You go on believing that if you want. Plenty of people run their semiauto pistols for thousands and thousands of rounds - some without cleaning them - with zero malfunctions.

I’ll stick with my 7 shot 686 and I’m sure it is plenty

You go on believing that if you want.

MY point - obviously lost on some - is that only a fool would base his decision on what worked for someone 100 or more years ago.

 

[Kleanbore]

The FBI States 3 yards-3 Shots-3 seconds as The common Fire Fightr rom what history teaches .

Actually, no. Oft repeated, though.

Yet 1or 2 well placed Accurate shots is key.

Aimed at precisely what, on that fast moving target??

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Seen a few guys laughing as I was the range officer, indoors. Normal fellas who planned to stop off after for a game of pool. Nice guys that I’ve seen before. Laughing at the Barney /Mayberry gun one brought with em. They had a bet going- “Only one shot at 14’ “. From holster-quickly. Closest to bull plays for free, others pay.
Two had 9mm quality guns, One had a Gold box Pre war Model 10 pencil barrel. First guy 1st shot ftf- (Pretty sure operating error) Second guy hits target, barely. Third Drills bullseye, with a smile. His Grandfather thought him to shoot with that old wheel gun.
Point of story. 1 out of 3 , The basic revolver worked best and was more accurate.

Have at it guys-

 

[trackskippy]

Why do you assume you cant be accurate with an auto? Especially when shooting quickly and repetitively?

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Actually, no. Oft repeated, though.
Aimed at precisely what, on that fast moving target??

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Why do you assume you cant be accurate with an auto? Especially when shooting quickly and repetitively?

Im not assuming-

I’m stating…. 5-6 accurate shot- from any firearm is is sufficient.

 

[Old Dog]

Im not assuming-

I’m stating…. 5-6 accurate shot- from any firearm is is sufficient.

Aw, c'mon now... sufficient for what? The "average" gun fight? We shouldn't need to go down that rabbit hole yet again.

The original question was pertaining to finding a carry handgun -- in a revolver -- that was easy to carry and operate by an owner suffering from arthritis. Let's presume for a moment that accuracy is not in question (especially since most modern production handguns, both revolvers and autoloaders are capable of pretty darn good combat accuracy).

Nevertheless... below: 6 rounds on the left, 18 rounds on the right. Comparable size, the SIG a tad heavier fully-loaded. Easy choice for some of us.

Oh, hey, what happened to our original poster? (sitting back with regular popcorn, cheese popcorn or caramel... )

 

[bdickens]

Two had 9mm quality guns, One had a Gold box Pre war Model 10 pencil barrel. First guy 1st shot ftf- (Pretty sure operating error) Second guy hits target, barely. Third Drills bullseye, with a smile. His Grandfather thought him to shoot with that old wheel gun.
Point of story. 1 out of 3 , The basic revolver worked best and was more accurate.

Anyone with some basic knowledge and some basic critical thinking skills would come to the obvious conclusion that the third guy knows how to shoot and the first two don't. I guarantee if they all swapped guns the third guy would still win.

 

[trackskippy]

Im not assuming-

I’m stating…. 5-6 accurate shot- from any firearm is is sufficient.

What I was getting from what you said was that the autos werent capable of the same accuracy as revolvers.

And as Kleanbore keeps asking, accurate on what on a moving target? Your graph is basically meaningless. Whats that got to do with accuracy?