Why registering guns is not the same as registering cars

[giggitygiggity]

What boggles my mind is how anti-gun folks will compare cars to guns. "Why are you not in favor of gun registration or needing to obtain training and a license to purchase a gun... you need to do all that stuff for a car and cars don't hurt people."

For one, owning or operating a car is not guaranteed in the Constitution. If we want to start registering guns or requiring training or licenses for guns, then let's be fair and do it for all rights guaranteed by the Constitution! Before anyone can write a book, they need to obtain a special license to demonstrate that they know how to write, every publication needs to be serialized and registered with the government, etc. It sounds stupid because it is.

Secondly, cars are far more dangerous than guns. Actually, that is not correct as a car, like a gun, is also an inanimate object. A correct statement would be that more people are harmed or killed while operating cars than they are by guns in the U.S. Should there not be a call to ban cars since more lives are lost in the use of cars than they are through the use of guns? How about banning fast food since it's consumption kills people by way of heart attacks?

It's just flawed thinking. We supposedly live in a free country. Those freedoms come with risks. We need to accept the risks and severely punish those who violate the well-being and freedoms of others vice stripping the rights of all so that we can live safely; I'd rather be free than safe. We need to accept that people will defamation (1st Amendment crime) and that people will commit homicide with firearms (2nd Amendment crime), but have a justice system that will punish those who abuse their rights and inflict pain and suffering onto others.

 

[Hasaf]

If only someone would point out that blockchain technology could preserve all transaction records while making it impossible for the government to compile a registry or database of gun owners.....

Except that trying to do that using block chain would run into a lot of difficulties. The first problem would be when Senator X (A close relative of racer X) asks "where, exactly, is the information and who owns the computer it is on?"

The next problem is the horrific power requirements of blockchain. We remain better off opposing registration schemes than trying to get caught up in the minutia of how to go about implementing a registration scheme.

 

[RPZ]

This really isn't a private vs. public ownership issue. It is an issue of barriers to ownership. It would be onerous no matter if it were done directly by a state body or if it was outsourced. It is likely that a agency devoted to the registration of firearms would be even harder to deal with it it were a profit seeking organization. However, discussing whether a private, or public body would be a better model for a firearms registration is a bit of a red herring. The point is that any registration model would restrict, otherwise qualified, people from firearm ownership and would create many accidental felons.

Even if it were just like registering a car, most of the registration schemes have been nothing like car registration. You can loan a car for an indefinite period if you choose to. In restrictive states this is not true of firearms.

However, even this deflects from the point. The point being that firearms and automobiles are very different in their use. A firearm does not "consume" public resources in its normal, and lawful use. An auto does "consume" public resources in its normal, and lawful use. They are not similar, and as the OP says, the "just like auto registration" reasoning does not hold up to examination.

The arguements might be made concerning the consumption of public resources in medical and other health care costs in regards to casualties. Whether the injuries and hospitalization are the result of justified or unjustified shootings.

 

[Hasaf]

The arguements might be made concerning the consumption of public resources in medical and other health care costs in regards to casualties. Whether the injuries and hospitalization are the result of justified or unjustified shootings.

I realize that this is a bit of a devils argument point. However, It does get raised so it is worth addressing, if for no reason other than the practice it provides.

First, this began in context of a comparison to auto registration, there it should remain. What you are addressing are the externalities of general firearms ownership that result from unlawful use. This is a valid concern.

However, the registration and fees associated with automobiles in no way attempt to compensate the victims of the unlawful use of automobiles. The, further, make little progress toward paying the externalities of automobile use beyond a token portion paid toward road maintenance, a public good that is consumed by automobile owners at a prodigious rate.

Thus, attempting to force lawful firearms owners to pay for the externalities brought about by unlawful firearms users bears no resemblance to the significantly lower standard expected of automobile users. This circles us back to the point that the process, and purpose of the demands of firearms owners to register firearms bears no resemblance to the registration of automobiles.

Further, th every asking of the question lays bare that the purpose of the registration scheme is to place an onerous financial burden on lawful firearms owners.

 

[RPZ]

I realize that this is a bit of a devils argument point. However, It does get raised so it is worth addressing, if for no reason other than the practice it provides.

First, this began in context of a comparison to auto registration, there it should remain. What you are addressing are the externalities of general firearms ownership that result from unlawful use. This is a valid concern.

However, the registration and fees associated with automobiles in no way attempt to compensate the victims of the unlawful use of automobiles. The, further, make little progress toward paying the externalities of automobile use beyond a token portion paid toward road maintenance, a public good that is consumed by automobile owners at a prodigious rate.

Thus, attempting to force lawful firearms owners to pay for the externalities brought about by unlawful firearms users bears no resemblance to the significantly lower standard expected of automobile users. This circles us back to the point that the process, and purpose of the demands of firearms owners to register firearms bears no resemblance to the registration of automobiles.

Further, th every asking of the question lays bare that the purpose of the registration scheme is to place an onerous financial burden on lawful firearms owners.

Well, a significant portion of the justifications for vehicle registration is the costs in accidental consequences, misuse and criminal use. The same could arguably be applied to firearms. I am playing devil's advocate here. Since "reasonable controls" have been affirmed in the courts, it really is not a stretch that universal registration and licensing could not be "justified", since "reasonable controls" have been ruled not to be an "infringement". The correct ruling should have been that there is no such thing as "reasonable controls", only the prosecuting of persons committing specific crimes with firearms. Otherwise "reasonable controls" are the avenue to anything they want short of confiscation.

The same context already applies to "free speech". It is not that speech can be "restricted", as in there are "reasonable controls on the right to free speech". Rather, the prosecution of actual and specific crimes via speech, like causing alarm in a manner to cause panic - disrupt a business, or libel, slander, making violent threats, etc.

 

[denton]

Except that trying to do that using block chain would run into a lot of difficulties. The first problem would be when Senator X (A close relative of racer X) asks "where, exactly, is the information and who owns the computer it is on?"

The next problem is the horrific power requirements of blockchain. We remain better off opposing registration schemes than trying to get caught up in the minutia of how to go about implementing a registration scheme.

Of course, the beauty of such a system is that it is redundant and no particular entity controls the location of the files. Yeah, I don't think the government would be comfortable with that, but then I'm not trying to make them comfortable.

Blockchain does not have excessive power requirements. If you're trying to mine Bitcoin, you burn a lot. But that is just because it has purposefully been made difficult to mine it. Keeping the transaction information in an impenetrable format doesn't have that problem.

 

[RPZ]

Of course, the beauty of such a system is that it is redundant and no particular entity controls the location of the files. Yeah, I don't think the government would be comfortable with that, but then I'm not trying to make them comfortable.

Blockchain does not have excessive power requirements. If you're trying to mine Bitcoin, you burn a lot. But that is just because it has purposefully been made difficult to mine it. Keeping the transaction information in an impenetrable format doesn't have that problem.

This is true. ID Coin is being looked at to replace social security numbers and all private data for this reason. The user can then control any and all data releases.

 

[CapnMac]

By a variety of circumstances, I was unable to renew the registration on my ride online. So, on Monday, I got to witness the process of vehicle registration in its inexorable (only sat waiting for 75 minutes for a 3 minute transaction).

So, I was struck by the changes from the beforetimes. I remember when all that was needed was to sign the blank line on the pink slip to hold a motor vehicle title, There were even several lines on the pink slip for this purpose. Now, the computers must be fed data; the tax office coffers must be kept flush with "use fees"; control of citizens' chattel property must be maintained.

Despite this, we are surrounded by vehicles that ought to be junked and drivers incapable of the task. This makes it easy to be cynical and jaded.

 

[Robert]

Well, it looks like this one is done.